When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Here is an Image Frank Posted...
Wow! The amount of stuff that my Brain simply does NOT register these days is just endless!
I very much like that Frank Cut/ Added a Top O-Ring Groove and O-ring to the Boost Valve Sleeve (Made from a GM Boost Valve and Sleeve) Shown below:
Sonnax Version for Comparison:
Also it looks as if Frank used Hydrogenated Viton O-Rings (HNBR/ Hydrogenated Nitrile ButadieneRubber) most often used in Automotive Air-Conditioning Systems.
Maybe He can Comment on the Material/ Use of, and Theory in this situation.
Frank often has all of these small very Interesting Ideas that He shows us!
Actually those rings come in the rebuild kits. I am not honestly sure what they are intended for in the kit as rings are included for all other places, But I find 2 of them in every kit and have a ton of them as they seem to have no place to go. But work well for this purpose , fit just right with a .060 deep groove. Yes i added the additional ring as I was air checking the sonnax boost valve with rings making sure didn't tear one on install. And noted large air leak there. So I added it and fixed the leak and used one of those rings as I had so many of them, But additionally I noticed they are just a bit stiffer than the ones sonnax uses and thicker and due to this I found they went into the bore easier with the sleeve and sealed well.
So since I decided to add this ring in all my builds ,I started just buying GM Boost valves and cutting the grooves myself as setting up for one why not do all, just takes a minute. So I now use the GM valve in all builds except stage 3 and max they get the transgo steel valve but even with it I add the grooves and seals (They are not machined for the little spring but come with a stiffer regulator spring anyway)
The Little spring allows a linear consistent line increase with very little effect at IDLE but considerable at higher throttles. It will generally take the max line up by 20 to 30 psi while leaving the idle at around 70. (tested back in the day on dyno)
You can also accomplish with the PCS turning the screw clockwise but unlike the spring it has large effect on idle and low RPM line. Where the spring has little discernible impact on it
Yes this can be done in the tune and but many of my customers simply do not have that access which is the primary reason I started doing it. About 1/2 my customers are for heavy duty and pre obd2 applications and do not want to or have access to tuning software.
But yes I do try and make most of my mods easily reversible and a few times its been handy. Like with my overun mod method, Had a guy last year who simply did not like the way it felt. I sent him a plate (with the understanding if sprag broke it would no longer be warranty) and he changed the plate as was happy.
I try and make all my mods minimally invasive, easy to reverse, and with no need for any future rebuilder of the unit to understand them as generally simply rebuilding and replacing the parts within the kit or omitting the mods will still work just fine though they will no longer be functional.
(example- with the sonnax HD 2-3 valve they have been popular for years , Of late I have run into people on FB forums mostly unaware one had been added to the VB and the connection method was cutting gasket so when they were done they had no overun because they did not notch gasket drill or notch for connection to the D3 circuit . With my overun mod it would be really had not to notice what had been done even if not understanding why, So most would just replace the plate or unblock the holes and reinstall ball.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
In another thread @vorteciroc brought up the issue of (2nd) servo apply and release balance needed to prevent 2->3 binds or flares. In the 1000+ threads I have read here never seen that discussed. Sure I have read that if a Corvette servo is used, then a particular hole in the separator plate should be drilled to a particular size. Or a quick discussion of which servo release springs to use. I think most of us DYI'ers simply follow the directions in e.g. the Transgo HD2 shift kit and leave it at that. I good discussion of that would be interesting here. Even better, a table listing different OEM and aftermarket servos and what springs and separator plate drillings to use for each. And of course, what to do if a bind or flare is noticed.
With all the "secrets" Frank is sharing in this and other posts, I may pull and rebuild my 4L65E just to be sure I did it "right".
I actually suggest using the 4l80e/th400 int servo release spring in all builds but most certainly with D-RINGS and ALWAYS with the superior pancake servo
With all the servos except the Superior I generally keep the stock 1-2 shift hole / 3rd accum size ratio . the exception being the SUPERIOR servo then I make them .083 on the 2nd apply and .092 on the accum release hole as with no size differential front to back it offers no 3rd accumulation other than whatever the release spring makes.
Also I machine the separator pancake to accommodate the sonnax 4th servo use with it. .
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Aftermarket 4th servos and why I kinda hate them all.
On my next build I will add some pictures but this is my issue ,
The flat bottom on all of the them trans side. If you look with it assemble wither it's the sonnax or corvette or any second servo with these flat bottomed servos the travel is very very limited . Meaning unless you set up the band very close and tight just enough to turn free but no more. You risk between wear and band stretch over time getting to the place the bottom of the servo hits the second servo and starts slipping eventually burning up the band.
If you look at the stock 4th servo it has a rise on the bottom at pin area which gives it the ability to push the back much further before contacting the inner servo.
In fact when someone was developing a new style I mentioned that and was ignored.
Why none adds that is beyond me. (lazy? time consuming IDK.)
I just bought a 4 inch round bar stock aluminum and when I get time plan to make a 1 of servo made what In my opinion is the right way that will fix that and hopefully present it to someone interested in making 4th servos. I, of course do not have the time. It will also incorporate 2 sealing areas one to be a dring the other teflon .
Like I said when I get time,
But for those reading look at the next flat bottom aftermarket servo with the disk minus cap setting on the assembly and note how severely limited travel actually is.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Aftermarket 4th servos and why I kinda hate them all.
On my next build I will add some pictures but this is my issue ,
The flat bottom on all of the them trans side. If you look with it assemble wither it's the sonnax or corvette or any second servo with these flat bottomed servos the travel is very very limited . Meaning unless you set up the band very close and tight just enough to turn free but no more. You risk between wear and band stretch over time getting to the place the bottom of the servo hits the second servo and starts slipping eventually burning up the band.
If you look at the stock 4th servo it has a rise on the bottom at pin area which gives it the ability to push the back much further before contacting the inner servo.
In fact when someone was developing a new style I mentioned that and was ignored.
Why none adds that is beyond me. (lazy? time consuming IDK.)
I just bought a 4 inch round bar stock aluminum and when I get time plan to make a 1 of servo made what In my opinion is the right way that will fix that and hopefully present it to someone interested in making 4th servos. I, of course do not have the time. It will also incorporate 2 sealing areas one to be a dring the other teflon .
Like I said when I get time,
But for those reading look at the next flat bottom aftermarket servo with the disk minus cap setting on the assembly and note how severely limited travel actually is.
Actually those rings come in the rebuild kits. I am not honestly sure what they are intended for in the kit as rings are included for all other places, But I find 2 of them in every kit and have a ton of them as they seem to have no place to go. But work well for this purpose , fit just right with a .060 deep groove. Yes i added the additional ring as I was air checking the sonnax boost valve with rings making sure didn't tear one on install. And noted large air leak there. So I added it and fixed the leak and used one of those rings as I had so many of them, But additionally I noticed they are just a bit stiffer than the ones sonnax uses and thicker and due to this I found they went into the bore easier with the sleeve and sealed well.
So since I decided to add this ring in all my builds ,I started just buying GM Boost valves and cutting the grooves myself as setting up for one why not do all, just takes a minute. So I now use the GM valve in all builds except stage 3 and max they get the transgo steel valve but even with it I add the grooves and seals (They are not machined for the little spring but come with a stiffer regulator spring anyway)
The Little spring allows a linear consistent line increase with very little effect at IDLE but considerable at higher throttles. It will generally take the max line up by 20 to 30 psi while leaving the idle at around 70. (tested back in the day on dyno)
You can also accomplish with the PCS turning the screw clockwise but unlike the spring it has large effect on idle and low RPM line. Where the spring has little discernible impact on it
Yes this can be done in the tune and but many of my customers simply do not have that access which is the primary reason I started doing it. About 1/2 my customers are for heavy duty and pre obd2 applications and do not want to or have access to tuning software.
But yes I do try and make most of my mods easily reversible and a few times its been handy. Like with my overun mod method, Had a guy last year who simply did not like the way it felt. I sent him a plate (with the understanding if sprag broke it would no longer be warranty) and he changed the plate as was happy.
I try and make all my mods minimally invasive, easy to reverse, and with no need for any future rebuilder of the unit to understand them as generally simply rebuilding and replacing the parts within the kit or omitting the mods will still work just fine though they will no longer be functional.
(example- with the sonnax HD 2-3 valve they have been popular for years , Of late I have run into people on FB forums mostly unaware one had been added to the VB and the connection method was cutting gasket so when they were done they had no overun because they did not notch gasket drill or notch for connection to the D3 circuit . With my overun mod it would be really had not to notice what had been done even if not understanding why, So most would just replace the plate or unblock the holes and reinstall ball.
VITON ORINGS source. They come in the kits. I never really took time to figure out what they were for as never used because I always replace solenoids which come with orings on them. But that is what they are for and they're three in every kit.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Aftermarket 4th servos and why I kinda hate them all.
On my next build I will add some pictures but this is my issue ,
The flat bottom on all of the them trans side. If you look with it assemble wither it's the sonnax or corvette or any second servo with these flat bottomed servos the travel is very very limited . Meaning unless you set up the band very close and tight just enough to turn free but no more. You risk between wear and band stretch over time getting to the place the bottom of the servo hits the second servo and starts slipping eventually burning up the band.
If you look at the stock 4th servo it has a rise on the bottom at pin area which gives it the ability to push the back much further before contacting the inner servo.
In fact when someone was developing a new style I mentioned that and was ignored.
Why none adds that is beyond me. (lazy? time consuming IDK.)
I just bought a 4 inch round bar stock aluminum and when I get time plan to make a 1 of servo made what In my opinion is the right way that will fix that and hopefully present it to someone interested in making 4th servos. I, of course do not have the time. It will also incorporate 2 sealing areas one to be a dring the other teflon .
Like I said when I get time,
But for those reading look at the next flat bottom aftermarket servo with the disk minus cap setting on the assembly and note how severely limited travel actually is.
Well I did try to do this but pictorially its just to hard and I have no one to help with video,
But here is a photo of my servo setup You will note 2 different washer sizes used to get things to where both servos act on the pin exactly the same so band adjustment is the same for either servo and no gap, Some use that Transgo spacer between the parts , I never understood that as it would just leave a space before the 4th servo starts pushing the band. Not pictured but I did note with the stock 4th servo , With the servo flipped its perfect nop 4th washer required.
I was however looking at sonnax , superior and others 4th servos and found no significant area increase 10 percent at most or less in apply area with the exception of the sonnax dual servo , And haven't tried yet but looks like you could actually just machine the stock servo cap then make a new servo to get that less than 10 percent,
Honestly with the exception of the sonnax IMO most aftermarket 4th servos are a waste of time and money though . Just not enough gain,
I will also later post pics of my stage three set up using the superior second servo .
In these pics the washers are off different thickness to make sure the respective servos are in full contact with the pin So each have the same travel action and distance when applied.
Something Vortech might be interested in idea wise, I have been thinking a long while about some method of dumping the 3-4 oil from behind the 2nd servo to allow both the 4th and 2nd servo to apply in 4th gears, Would make for massive apply area. Just have to work out dumping it without dumping 3-4 clutch oil with it. Or even with the superior servo use same method (once i figure it out?) so no 4th servo even exist just the second servo would re-apply in 4th making big apply area and only one servo, But when i have some time to think on it. Though applying both servos would be the ultimate 4th hold.
Though would only be useful for heavy towing or the super rare need to shift to 4th at WOT. But always thinking on ideas.
One other note , Many times people fail to consider that the Cushion spring motion in the second servo is part of the total pin and servo travel The servo / band is not fully applied till that space is take up, So when looking at second servo travel that to must be considered as while yes if the pin pushes the pin without fully compressing the cushion spring, it will apply band but it will not be at full pressure holding, So Imo getting all this set up just right is important. I know I am probably being to particular but it is my way. OVER THINKING LOL
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 06-10-2024 at 10:33 AM.
Superior servo machined so it can work with the sonnax dual Piston 4th servo https://scontent-bos5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ZA&oe=666E3AD7 Stage 3 and stage max only builds. all other use corvette servo.
These servos by nature tend to be a little clunky and aggressive but i use .083 feed size and , 093 release size with them. Of course I do not expect that people who choose the stage 3 and the type builds they put them in are overly concerned with comfort.
However to use them with the Sonnax servo they must be machined down to avoid collision with the divider and possible eventual band issues. But since the sonnax is the only 4th servo that IMO offers any significant increase on 4th holding it is a must else using any aftermarket 4h servo beyond a pretty is close to pointless.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Actually those rings come in the rebuild kits. I am not honestly sure what they are intended for in the kit as rings are included for all other places, But I find 2 of them in every kit and have a ton of them as they seem to have no place to go. But work well for this purpose , fit just right with a .060 deep groove. Yes i added the additional ring as I was air checking the sonnax boost valve with rings making sure didn't tear one on install. And noted large air leak there. So I added it and fixed the leak and used one of those rings as I had so many of them, But additionally I noticed they are just a bit stiffer than the ones sonnax uses and thicker and due to this I found they went into the bore easier with the sleeve and sealed well.
So since I decided to add this ring in all my builds ,I started just buying GM Boost valves and cutting the grooves myself as setting up for one why not do all, just takes a minute. So I now use the GM valve in all builds except stage 3 and max they get the transgo steel valve but even with it I add the grooves and seals (They are not machined for the little spring but come with a stiffer regulator spring anyway)
The Little spring allows a linear consistent line increase with very little effect at IDLE but considerable at higher throttles. It will generally take the max line up by 20 to 30 psi while leaving the idle at around 70. (tested back in the day on dyno)
You can also accomplish with the PCS turning the screw clockwise but unlike the spring it has large effect on idle and low RPM line. Where the spring has little discernible impact on it
Yes this can be done in the tune and but many of my customers simply do not have that access which is the primary reason I started doing it. About 1/2 my customers are for heavy duty and pre obd2 applications and do not want to or have access to tuning software.
But yes I do try and make most of my mods easily reversible and a few times its been handy. Like with my overun mod method, Had a guy last year who simply did not like the way it felt. I sent him a plate (with the understanding if sprag broke it would no longer be warranty) and he changed the plate as was happy.
I try and make all my mods minimally invasive, easy to reverse, and with no need for any future rebuilder of the unit to understand them as generally simply rebuilding and replacing the parts within the kit or omitting the mods will still work just fine though they will no longer be functional.
(example- with the sonnax HD 2-3 valve they have been popular for years , Of late I have run into people on FB forums mostly unaware one had been added to the VB and the connection method was cutting gasket so when they were done they had no overun because they did not notch gasket drill or notch for connection to the D3 circuit . With my overun mod it would be really had not to notice what had been done even if not understanding why, So most would just replace the plate or unblock the holes and reinstall ball.
Is this the light or the heavy spring that is in the kit?
I saw you mention somewhere you have a different method to align the pump with out the special tool but I can’t find how you do it can you please explain your methods to align the two pump halves.
Well I made one actually 2 , had to be steel as I had not aluminum or brass stock ,But abuse bore plugs with o rings and tight fitting roll pin. And Yes those are my feet lol.
Took about 15 minutes to make each, Worked out great snug fit . Going to get some brass or aluminum stock though, The hardest part was actually drilling the Hole which is not a standard size to make the roll pin fit snug. Had to use a bit from my wire size bit set. Also drilling a hole through steel on a round object is a pain the bit trys to deflect, I think brass or aluminum will be best, I have a preference to working with brass myself cause I have learned with bore end plugs i can go tighter and they will literally shave just a tiny bit off as they go in meaning very solid seal, of course they are oringed too.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 06-12-2024 at 11:01 AM.
I saw you mention somewhere you have a different method to align the pump with out the special tool but I can’t find how you do it can you please explain your methods to align the two pump halves.
I use the case but a little different, I spin tighten the pump half bolts with a real firm spin on each, Then I install the pump without the sealing ring and without the teflons for rev and tap it down gently and a line pump bolts holes tapping back n forth then gently remove the pump by hand , If right should lift right out, Gently again flip it over and torque bolts, Install teflons and pump o ring , put gasket in case and install . Perfect every time.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Many here may not be aware of the 4L60E in my C5 Corvette, because I probably havent posted much here on the trans. Most of it on the Corvette forum. Im curious what many here think about this: My 2000 C5 had the 345hp LS1 in it for 60,000 miles. I installed a 3,200 stall Yank converter at around 40,000 miles. Then I put a Darton sleeved 427 in it. When that needed a rebuild, I went with the LS7 block. I now have close to 150,000 miles on the car. The trans has seen 1 fluid and filter change at 100,000 miles. That is it. Totally stock internals. The tuner was adamant about leaving torque management in place, but raised the value from 450 lb/ft(?) to 1,000lb/ft. I dont know what else he has done, but I cant believe it is still OK!! Knock on a BIG piece of wood, and knock HARD!! I must have the best 4L60E GM ever built.....
I saw you mention somewhere you have a different method to align the pump with out the special tool but I can’t find how you do it can you please explain your methods to align the two pump halves.
Many here may not be aware of the 4L60E in my C5 Corvette, because I probably haven't posted much here on the trans. Most of it on the Corvette forum. Im curious what many here think about this: My 2000 C5 had the 345hp LS1 in it for 60,000 miles. I installed a 3,200 stall Yank converter at around 40,000 miles. Then I put a Darton sleeved 427 in it. When that needed a rebuild, I went with the LS7 block. I now have close to 150,000 miles on the car. The trans has seen 1 fluid and filter change at 100,000 miles. That is it. Totally stock internals. The tuner was adamant about leaving torque management in place, but raised the value from 450 lb/ft(?) to 1,000lb/ft. I don't know what else he has done, but I can't believe it is still OK!! Knock on a BIG piece of wood, and knock HARD!! I must have the best 4L60E GM ever built.....
Yes but not unheard of, My own in my 95 impala ss bear in mind had not been hotrodded but when I tore down as apart of my overall build of my 383 stroker I WAS BLOWN AWAY, 200k miles and it looked like it has just been built except all was factory GM not even a single hot spot in the 3-4 or the drum.
But I built it anyway as what was coming was a bit stouter.
But many times with the 60E its gets a bad rap because . One people rarely hotrod low mileage cars and trucks, MOST people do not service or care for the transmissions, So people get them , Build an engine, ADD a stall and boom they die (PIECE OF CRAP 60E OR SLIPPY E) It is a false bad rap. Also you hear more about them simply because the GM platform has always been the most hotroded of all cars and the last 30 years the 700r4 and 4l60e the most common trans in the world. Many I have noted in many areas look at total numbers rather than percentages to determine failures.
So they get the idea it's a crappy trans over sheer numbers of people talking failures.
Much the same happens with lots of things even "built units" if you get a company for instance that build 1000 units a year , and you see 100 failures posted you would think OMG they have bunches of issues. then another guy builds 100 a year and has 10 that die well you see 10 failure in a year he must be great . But reality they are the same, It's all about perception,
The 60E is a good trans and plenty durable, Yours is exceptional be sure to knock on wood BTW LOL
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 06-12-2024 at 09:09 PM.
Well I made one actually 2 , had to be steel as I had not aluminum or brass stock ,But abuse bore plugs with o rings and tight fitting roll pin. And Yes those are my feet lol.
Took about 15 minutes to make each, Worked out great snug fit . Going to get some brass or aluminum stock though, The hardest part was actually drilling the Hole which is not a standard size to make the roll pin fit snug. Had to use a bit from my wire size bit set. Also drilling a hole through steel on a round object is a pain the bit trys to deflect, I think brass or aluminum will be best, I have a preference to working with brass myself cause I have learned with bore end plugs i can go tighter and they will literally shave just a tiny bit off as they go in meaning very solid seal, of course they are oringed too.
I have that exact pair of OSHA approved safety sandals from India !
06-06-2024, 10:30 AM
