Tranzman

I was just reading through this post again checking over the pictures. Here are a couple of thoughts.
1) I see an auxiliary VB, where is the forward feed tube? Are you using an earlier pump? Are you using a 4L60E pump?
2) I see the aluminum practicals in the pan & the slightly worn pump. What I don't see is enough pump wear to say that the pump is the culprit. What I do see is the possibility that the converter could be the cause of the aluminum and the pump is scored from the damage. Open the filter and see how much metal is in that. I use a pair of channel lock pliers to break the crimped edges all the way around and the separate the filter media.
I would clean everything out, get a new or good used pump. Have the converter cut open and inspected. I went through that with a Hugh's converter about 8-10 months ago. Customer sent it back and Hugh's owned up to the defective part. Always use a 10 vane pump, they have .180 more metal around both drive tangs than the 13 vane rotor...

reubone

Is this because it is a 700r4 or do you prefer 10 vane over 13 vane in all situations?

Even with a 4l60e?

Thank you guys for all of your help.

Tranzman

In any performance application I prefer a 10 vane rotor, 200-4R, 700-4R or 4L60E. The reason is, if you look at the two rotors side by side. Looking closely at the rotors drive tangs vs the vane slots. You will see that the placement of the vane slots is closer to a drive tang on the 13 vane rotor vs the 10 vane rotor. This is always the area that cracks or breaks in a performance applications. Some say that every rotor should be placed over the converter hub and clearanced. I have found a few that the converter hub is not quite flat against the rotor tang drive side. Here is a picture of a new rotor before the converter hub & rotor was cleaned up. The 2nd picture is of a rotor that almost got re-used. I didn't see the small cracks until the final install and had to go grab a new one.

FranksCustomTrans

Yes the gasket seems to have taken on some moisture at some point which is why the holes don't line up just right, Was this part of the shift problem ? I doubt it unless the gasket covered a hole it was not supposed too.

FranksCustomTrans

The little screen in the pump will tell the story of the converter. That's why it should be looked at, It is possible rather than a pump pocket being to shallow for the rotor you had a converter failure which is actually more plausible as converter would have been difficult to turn in a to little clearance situation.
As for rotor numbers , I generally myself if i need to change a rotor get a 10 vane. I don't do this automatically but if I do need to change it that is what i get,
Most important regardless of the source the 700r4 is super sensitive particularly the throttle valve to debris , You will need to clean everything super well.

reubone

Well I will be danged. Thank you for sharing that. Something else to add to the check list.

reubone

Boost valve was stuck in the bore.

This screen as well as the case screen we’re suspiciously clear of debris.

reubone

Well I cleaned the valve body and put together a good pump. did all the valve checks for motion. Checked the pump several times for clearance and vacuum checked it. All the clutches, drums, and bearings were blown out, wiped off, and cleaned. Checked the pressures while on the jack stands and we have 60 at idle in all gears except reverse where I have 90 psi. We have pressure rise with throttle as well. As much as 150-180 in park with a free rev.

Now I have a decent 1-2 shift. A high reving 2-3 that gets really lazy if I slack up on the tv cable. No 3-4 shift at all that is detectable. I put a new transgo separator plate in and did not drill any holes out. I just put the two plugs in for the late year models like it was instructed. All of the shifts feel softer than I think it should and 1-2 happens too soon in my opinion and 2-3 happens way late. What did I mess up this time.

FranksCustomTrans

Well you have shifts that part is good and you seem to have pressure and that is good . Question I was reading and did not see, Have you been running this same VB the whole time ?

reubone

no sir, I put a reman valve body I bought after the the first one had that rusted tv limiter valve in it.

reubone

Looks waaaayyyy too familiar here except for the milky white film. It was heavier than the trans fluid.

Close up of the film. Vaseline maybe?

This is the configuration of the tv valve I put the red spring in and the tv valve was the Transgo deal already so I left it in.

This valve was stuck slightly open.

Close up of valve.
I’m going really broke on this deal.

FranksCustomTrans

I am baffled , Where did all the aluminum come from? Converter though that along with pump should show in pump screen, Milky white ? Any vaseline would have dissolved in fluid and would not separate again if the trans even hit as little as 130f vaseline starts to melt at body temp. Sticky MTV up valve could affect shifts but not in manor you described.
That is a pretty considerable amount of aluminum assuming you cleaned out the drums and all and it's unlikely from pump this time thought I am starting to question if the pump was just a symptom or a cause and perhaps the scratches in it were cause from some other source along with pump slide sticking causing low line or was regulator stuck causing you previous no line rise .
But you do have line rise now and your description of shifts honestly point to either a massive leak in the hydraulic circuit or blocked filter , Particularly with 3rd gear action and no 4th .
Of it were me at this point I would pull whole unit. Drain converter through rag and inspect whats comes out, Go through each and every part of the build looking for a leak accompanied with aluminum source.
The aluminum source and leak are likely connected and possibilities limited on sources, Converter, pump, input drum, missing bearing rev to input ?Missing or failed bearing input drum to sprag? either could cause miss alighment of hydraulics feeds and leaks and account for aluminum.
Sorry been where you are before and it sucks , But even before it was somewhat questionable that much aluminum came from pump but possible. Now with second pump and verification of slide and rotor function again assuming you did clean all out as when a pump starts shaving aluminum it will go every place, Converter, drums, pistons, valvebody, accums. Strange was earlier you posted the pump screen being oddly clear. Yet the particles look to be large enough to have been trapped in it unless of course it blew out once full but I don't see any indication of that. And all fluid from the pump must travel through that screen. So I am inclined to think while the pump clearance may very well have been to tight causing the no line rise and and pump erosion I do not think is was the source of the aluminum bits in pan then nor now as it would have made more of a powder not such visual bits (obviously I cannot see them in person to determine just going by picture) and the milky stuff could just be condensation as I do not know where you are but i have to deal with that here a lot due to extreme temp changes this time of year.
Right Now I am leaning to aluminum source being someplace other than pump and an associated leak.
Sorry I am mostly thinking in text hope helps some but in summary if it were me as much as its hurts , I would back up totally disassemble and start over with primary goal of finding source of the aluminum .
Drain converter through rag , carefully look over input drum. Looking for a leak and aluminum source which honestly should be noticable and the amount is substantial.
Sorry cannot give better answer.

reubone

I really appreciate it brother, thank you for your guidance and tips and pointers along the way as well as anyone else has chimed in. I am baffled as well. This is the third time that the Transmission will have to come out of the truck. If what I have done this morning Does not fix the issues. Wednesday and Thursday of this week I had this transmission all the way apart again. I inspected and cleaned everything. I blew out the shaft, blew out and cleaned and inspected all of the bearings. Disassembled both drums cleaned and reassembled. None of the clutches, or Steele's looked harmed or measured anywhere at all. I assembled a new pump with your guidelines. I installed the valve body after cleaning. And the customer supplied a brand new torque converter. Yesterday I put the transmission back in line rise was all good but displayed the shifting issues highlighted above. This morning I decided to drop the pan pull the valve body again, and compare and contrast the spring configuration to the old valve body found a few anomalies, but not many and one partially stuck valve. I've got everything put back together and I'm putting fluid back in it again and I am going to test. I don't know what else to do other than rebuilding a completely different transmission which I cannot afford or do not have.

reubone

By the way, I am in Baxley, Georgia.

FranksCustomTrans

Ah high humidity condensation is probably the milky stuff .

reubone

Well, I now have all gears and lock up. I have no explanation seriously. The only slight gripe is that 3-4 is a little sluggish and happens at 60 miles an hour, regardless of pedal position or throttle input.

FranksCustomTrans

Did you plug the 4th accum passage ? If you did that then if using the shock servos try flipping the 4th servo but after install check that drive shaft still turns both ways in any position but park , May just have excessive 4th clearance in fact if it does not lock it down it was certainly excessive.
But sounds like moving in right direction.

reubone

blocked 4th accumulator. Stock 4th servo. Used Transgo shim to set clearance. Not my preferred method either. 4th gear and tcc lockup hold fine once engaged. Seems to shorten up the more it is driven.

FranksCustomTrans

Ah the transgo spacer does not set 4th clearance , , ideally what you want is with whole assembly together you want the cap to just contact or not the center piece, What I like to see if when its together just the tinyest gap between but when you press it moves pin . With the spacer you are actually possibly opening the gap without servo contacting clip/washer .

FranksCustomTrans

When I set my servo up , I am particular that the 2nd and 4th servo have the exact same travel of the pin for the movement of the servo which most times makes necessary to add washers of different thicknesses to get that as shown in photos, Its really important with the aftermarket 4th with a flat bottom as travel is actually pretty limited till the 4th servo hits the second servo.
Of subject note if you ever use the superior servo with the sonnax while you can make it work with just the right washers , The superior servo center disc center needs to be machined down to allow adequate travel .
If I was ever creating a servo I would include the small hump on bottom like GM did to allow for deeper travel, Why servo makers do not it I have no idea, Also the added orings make a huge difference and with older cases a considerable leak exist here of 4th clutch oil. Though ideally oversized bore and pin from sonnax would fix too I still would likely add the orings as they seal solid, Also the factory and sonnax pins with the teflons work pretty well for this.