Stalling out ... cam and stall converter
Stalling out ... cam and stall converter I recently bought a 2002 WS6 with a Yank 3200 stall converter and a 216/224/LSA 115 cam (Crane) in it ... it was tuned with a Vinci hand held tuner;
The car has a problem (large loping .. RPM searching / flux) with sudden throttle influence @ or near idle and when cold during start and stop traffic situations and backing up. I have to use the brake and gas to catch it so that it (the computer) won't lose control and stall.
When I coast / lightly brake to a stop, the car usually finds idle just fine. .. I'm more suspicious that the cam is what's creating the trouble for the computer under those circumstances.
Is there a remedy for this behavior ... or is this to be expected with these mods??
Thanks ...
The car has a problem (large loping .. RPM searching / flux) with sudden throttle influence @ or near idle and when cold during start and stop traffic situations and backing up. I have to use the brake and gas to catch it so that it (the computer) won't lose control and stall.
When I coast / lightly brake to a stop, the car usually finds idle just fine. .. I'm more suspicious that the cam is what's creating the trouble for the computer under those circumstances. Is there a remedy for this behavior ... or is this to be expected with these mods??
Thanks ...
That's not that much of a cam. But I encountered idle
surge / stall problem,s with the little ol' TCI I put in, just
the lighter mass alonew exposes any instability in the
idle loop. You want to bring up idle RPM (say, 700-750),
then bump up the idle airflow to about 90% of what you
see it takes to idle there. You might need to shave a
little on the VE table too, and increase spark advance in
the idle range (main and idle tables, make sure these are
consistent too). Don't know, kind of doubt the handheld
is up to these kinds of changes.
surge / stall problem,s with the little ol' TCI I put in, just
the lighter mass alonew exposes any instability in the
idle loop. You want to bring up idle RPM (say, 700-750),
then bump up the idle airflow to about 90% of what you
see it takes to idle there. You might need to shave a
little on the VE table too, and increase spark advance in
the idle range (main and idle tables, make sure these are
consistent too). Don't know, kind of doubt the handheld
is up to these kinds of changes.
come to think of it my car has been doing the same thing since i put my stall in (3200 Vig) i thought it was the o2's but since i have changed them ,some times it still dies out.
Originally Posted by junior28570
I recently bought a 2002 WS6 with a Yank 3200 stall converter and a 216/224/LSA 115 cam (Crane) in it ... it was tuned with a Vinci hand held tuner;
The car has a problem (large loping .. RPM searching / flux) with sudden throttle influence @ or near idle and when cold during start and stop traffic situations and backing up. I have to use the brake and gas to catch it so that it (the computer) won't lose control and stall. When I coast / lightly brake to a stop, the car usually finds idle just fine. .. I'm more suspicious that the cam is what's creating the trouble for the computer under those circumstances.
Is there a remedy for this behavior ... or is this to be expected with these mods??
Thanks ...
The car has a problem (large loping .. RPM searching / flux) with sudden throttle influence @ or near idle and when cold during start and stop traffic situations and backing up. I have to use the brake and gas to catch it so that it (the computer) won't lose control and stall.
When I coast / lightly brake to a stop, the car usually finds idle just fine. .. I'm more suspicious that the cam is what's creating the trouble for the computer under those circumstances. Is there a remedy for this behavior ... or is this to be expected with these mods??
Thanks ...
The guy I bought the car from said he had it tuned with the programmer at the place where he had the mods (cam, converter, underdrive pulley, headers, exhaust, etc.) put in and he made these notes for me about the tuner settings;
cooling fans set to 190 degrees
power enrichment 10% fuel
spark enhancement to "stock" ( 0 )
Engine power tuning to cam #3
RPM setting is 200 RPM
Thanks for any help you can give me!
cooling fans set to 190 degrees
power enrichment 10% fuel
spark enhancement to "stock" ( 0 )
Engine power tuning to cam #3
RPM setting is 200 RPM
Thanks for any help you can give me!
Last edited by junior28570; Apr 3, 2006 at 02:57 AM. Reason: I "oops" on the typing
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
From: Houston
O **** man .... the SAME thing happend to me and it isnt the cam thats giving you the problems... its the stall... the stall could be defective my 3600 yank was defective from the get go ... PM me and ill talk to you and try to help you out
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Atlanta, GA Ft. Walton Beach, FL
tune
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
That's not that much of a cam. But I encountered idle
surge / stall problem,s with the little ol' TCI I put in, just
the lighter mass alonew exposes any instability in the
idle loop. You want to bring up idle RPM (say, 700-750),
then bump up the idle airflow to about 90% of what you
see it takes to idle there. You might need to shave a
little on the VE table too, and increase spark advance in
the idle range (main and idle tables, make sure these are
consistent too). Don't know, kind of doubt the handheld
is up to these kinds of changes.
surge / stall problem,s with the little ol' TCI I put in, just
the lighter mass alonew exposes any instability in the
idle loop. You want to bring up idle RPM (say, 700-750),
then bump up the idle airflow to about 90% of what you
see it takes to idle there. You might need to shave a
little on the VE table too, and increase spark advance in
the idle range (main and idle tables, make sure these are
consistent too). Don't know, kind of doubt the handheld
is up to these kinds of changes.
I'm digging this cam/stock TC.
The proffesional tuner set my idel to 590RPM (I wanted it low)
actaully with this 115LSA my car would idel at 480RPM (that's what is was set at before professional tune)
he increased idel timing to 17 degrees, and smoothed out the VE
car runs great.
It's posts like this that make me want to get a small 2600 preformace TC.
Hope this helps
Originally Posted by badmfkr
SUP Joe Vinci
I'm digging this cam/stock TC.
The proffesional tuner set my idel to 590RPM (I wanted it low)
actaully with this 115LSA my car would idel at 480RPM (that's what is was set at before professional tune)
he increased idel timing to 17 degrees, and smoothed out the VE
car runs great.
It's posts like this that make me want to get a small 2600 preformace TC.
Hope this helps
I'm digging this cam/stock TC.
The proffesional tuner set my idel to 590RPM (I wanted it low)
actaully with this 115LSA my car would idel at 480RPM (that's what is was set at before professional tune)
he increased idel timing to 17 degrees, and smoothed out the VE
car runs great.
It's posts like this that make me want to get a small 2600 preformace TC.
Hope this helps
Maybe it is the Yank TC????? The cam / TC mod are since 2005 (approx. 1500 miles) ... but the guy I bought it from indicated that this was expected or "acceptable" .. given the responses here, I'm thinking "maybe not
" It doesn't take much in an A4 to screw up the idle. My advice is to go find a tuner who can tune your idle for you. That handheld doesn't seem to be cutting it. Otherwise you might have a leak around the TB/ MAF or the TPS and/or IAC sensor could be outta whack. Even try cleaning those 1st.
Sounds like good advice Danno ...
I had a talk with Joe Vinci today ... he echos what you're saying. He believes the MAF very well may be the problem (or a leak somewhere thereabouts) .. he also mentioned walking me through adjusting some settings with the tuner.
I'll up-date this thread once those options are sorted out.
I had a talk with Joe Vinci today ... he echos what you're saying. He believes the MAF very well may be the problem (or a leak somewhere thereabouts) .. he also mentioned walking me through adjusting some settings with the tuner.
I'll up-date this thread once those options are sorted out.
new (used) MAF installed I bought a stock MAF from a member on this site, it came off of an 01 T/A. After install .. the car ran rough for the first minute or 2 .. I'm assuming it was trying to learn the new component. After the car warmed up (it never had a problem "cold") I messed with the throttle (short taps .. to around 2500 rpm), in and out of gear, the car doesn't stumble nearly as bad and only stalled twice. I'll give it a proper road test sometime this week ... I'll post the results once the car has had ample time to learn the new MAF.
Cheers!
Cheers!
I took the car for a ride today (approx. 7 miles) .. the car stumbles still coming to a stop. The car wants to idle @ or below 500 rpm ... this is when the computer seems to be over-adjusting. After nearly stalling out, the next fuel delivery sends the idle to around 12/1400 rpm .. then the cycle begins ..up and down until it stalls out. I can manually control the idle (with the throttle) to prevent it from cycling .. this is done by holding the rpms around 1200 and slowly bringing the rpm's down to a point that the computer doesn't surge and will hold idle on it's own (around 5/600rpm in gear / 8/900 in N). I've only logged around 45 minutes / 8 miles run/drive time since the stock MAF was installed ... is that enough time for the car to have learned the new component?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: Australia
480RPM is ridiculously low idle for a cammed stalled A4. You are asking for problems. Set idle to 700RPM and see how it goes.
If you dont have HPTuners or similar, then its up to you and the handheld to sort the rest out.
For comparison, I have Vinci's "THE BEAST" cam in my car (kinda like an F13), 3600 stall and purrfect idle at 860RPM in gear - no drivability issues whatsoever. I also had a smaller cam than yours beforehand, a comp 212-220-112 and it needed to idle at 770RPM in gear or issues like you are saying started to arise.
If you dont have HPTuners or similar, then its up to you and the handheld to sort the rest out.
For comparison, I have Vinci's "THE BEAST" cam in my car (kinda like an F13), 3600 stall and purrfect idle at 860RPM in gear - no drivability issues whatsoever. I also had a smaller cam than yours beforehand, a comp 212-220-112 and it needed to idle at 770RPM in gear or issues like you are saying started to arise.
Does a 300 rpm drop in idle speed seem "normal" when shifting from N to D or R? (no A/C)
Someone mentioned to me that drilling out the hole in the TB butterfly valve will increase flow enough required to idle with a cam (compensate for vacuum loss). Has anyone ever tried this? Would a larger TB (aftermarket) serve the same purpose?
Thanks for all the help!
Someone mentioned to me that drilling out the hole in the TB butterfly valve will increase flow enough required to idle with a cam (compensate for vacuum loss). Has anyone ever tried this? Would a larger TB (aftermarket) serve the same purpose?
Thanks for all the help!