FURY

I couldn't agree more. Also, in regards to this topic, I think a lot of you guys mistake the EASE of racing an automatic for being "BETTER". Don't get me wrong- autos are superior in terms of being CONSISTENT @ the dragstrip, but they're not "better" overall...maybe they're "better" in for a NOVICE racer...

You just have to be a BETTER DRIVER to make a manual car perform as well. You can blame your lack of skill in driving a manual to be because of the manual itself, but the fact is, you just don't know how to DRIVE a manual-powered car well enough. Think of racing an automatic as playing a video game on the "EASY" level, whereas driving a manual would lean more towards the "DIFFICULT" setting. With an automatic, the car does most of the "driving" for you. With a manual, YOU have to control EVERYTHING on the car. When driving a manual, there are so many factors that can screw you up, whereas with an automatic, it's practically "dummy-proof".

Automatics are good for three things: Bracket Racing, going REALLY FAST (sub-9's), and heavy traffic. Unless you're overly-concerned about keeping your times perfectly consistent, there is no "superior" transmission. Now, if you're planning on doing anything faster than 9's in the 1/4 mile, then yes, go auto, but since the vast majority of the people here telling you to go auto will never take their cars far enough to even see sub-9's, I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor for you.

My '93 Camaro used to be an auto, and like others here, I bought it because it was more available, cheaper, and easier to find (hmm, maybe there's a reason for that?). After I grew tired of the automatic and how if ONE thing broke, you had to rebuild the whole transmission, I decided to spend the money for my next rebuild to convert my car to an M6 (where, if one gear fails, the rest of the transmission typically works), and I haven't looked back. I drove my Camaro as an auto for 5 years before switching, and it's now been 5 years since I switched, and I can tell you, I'd NEVER, EVER, EVER switch back to an automatic. Hell, I'll never buy another AUTOMATIC SPORTS CAR, PERIOD. Two years ago, I decided to add on to my collection by buying my wife a '98 Trans Am, and of course, I wouldn't have bought it unless it was a 6-speed. In the next 3-5 years, I'll be adding onto our car collection with a 5th gen Camaro, and that too, will be a 6-speed manual, or nothing at all.

Honestly, it boils down to personal preference, and what your goals are. Everyone's different. Myself, for example, have driven my Camaro as an automatic AND manual, and it's been both a daily-driver AND now a garage queen. Since I love having TOTAL CONTROL over my vehicle, and because I don't ever plan on bracket racing or running any faster than a 9-second 1/4 mile, I'll ALWAYS go manual...but that's just me. My personal opinion is automatics belong on "commuter" cars, NOT sports cars. Let me know when you see Ferrari or Lamborghini make an "automatic supercar"...

To the original poster- your first mistake in asking this question was putting it in the "Automatic Transmission" section. Had you put it in the "Manual Transmission" section, you would have received a very different answer. It's not a matter of which is better, but rather which is better FOR YOU. Sit and think about what you'd like and what matters most to you in driving your car, and go that route...

darrensls1

The autos is better overall at the drag strip. It's been proven over and over again. Besides being better at launching they require less shifts and are much easier on the 10 bolt.

First of all lets call a spade a spade. Working a clutch and a shifter is not rocket science. It takes a little practice but it's not like you have to be a genius to figure it out.

Think of racing a manual car like you were mowing a lawn with a regular push lawn mower while the stalled automatic is a state of the art John Deer riding mower. Both get the job done but with the John Deer you have to do less work yourself and get the job done quicker

That's like me saying the manual is only good for three things. Road courses, roll racing and gas mileage contests. Since most people don't do road courses and rarely street race or enter gas mileage contests you shouldn't let that be a deciding factor.

See how dumb that sounds?

Yeah like clutches are not a pain in the *** to replace. I hear really good T56 clutches are cheap too. So are 12 bolts and 9" rearends. Face it, either way you go you have to endure some major expense whether it's a stall and a heavy duty 4L60E or it's a clutch and a new rearend.

Pick your poison.

Let me know when Ferarri or Lamborghini make a back seat, uses a small block V8, uses solid rear axle and has "some" 3500+ lb curb weights.

Fbodys are Muscle cars NOT sports cars. If you want to get an american sports car then look at Z06 Vettes, Vipers, Ford GT's, ect. But fbodys are muscle cars and do what they do best. Kick *** in a straight line. Which coincidentaly they happen to do best with a big stalled automatic transmission.

That's one of the few things we are going to agree on. And he didn't make a mistake. He posted a question in an appropriate forum and got lots of feedback.

Bolt on LS1 record is 10.8 @ 122
Cam only record is 10.2 @ 130
Worlds fastest LS1 is 6.86 @ 205

All are automatics. I wonder why that is? Someone should tell the first two they need to work on thier stick handling skills because they aren't sub 9's.

FURY

First off, you're making the assumption that everyone uses a 10-bolt. Second, they're not BETTER at the dragstrip. I mean, yes, they are, but that's because they're EASIER to manage. You're letting the car do most the work for you...of course it's going to be better! There's less margin for human error. As I stated in my original post- they're EASIER. Now if you consider "easier" to be "better", then sure, automatics are better. Personally, I think any numbskull with a right foot, good suspension and a pair of heated slicks can send any car down the track quickly and consistently. You're putting most of the work on the car, and therefore it doesn't require as much driver skill to operate it.


WRONG. When you shift, what RPM you shift at, how you let out on the clutch, you can miss a shift, miss a gear, etc. See, this is what makes racing INTERESTING and CHALLENGING. Any idiot with more money than brains can make an automatic fast. You can't just throw money at a manual car and expect it to be fast.

I've raced my Camaro both as an automatic AND as a manual, and let me tell you, it's a whole different animal...I don't care what you say otherwise.

Where's the fun in that? How can you consider running a fast time in an automatic as "rewarding" as you would pulling the same times in a manual? In a manual, running that time is ALL DRIVER. Running that same time in an automatic is ALL CAR. As I said before, what fun is it if any fool with money to burn can BUY a fast car? Put a little "sport" into it- leave some room for people to make errors...makes racing more interesting that way...


You completely missed the point. I said choosing between an auto and manual boils down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE. For most people, having one or the other really won't matter, aside from personal enjoyment. Unless you were dead-set on running sub-9's, making a bracket racer, or you drive your car in heavy traffic (foot on the brake vs. dancing with 3 pedals and wearing out the clutch). In those 3 cases, an automatic would be the BETTER CHOICE. Sure, even as you pointed out, if what you're looking to get out of your car consists of mostly gas mileage, roll racing, and road courses, then yes, the manual would be the BETTER CHOICE. Anything else would boil down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

See how dumb your response sounded?

HAHAHAHA! I'd GLADLY replace a $500 clutch, something I can do myself, rather than PAY some guy to overhaul my worn-out automatic (don't even try comparing the replacement a clutch to rebuilding an auto tranny), plus an automatic has all kinds of clutch bands and garbage that wears out, especially with heavy use. Manuals, for the most part, are just gears and seals. Durability-wise, unless driven by a complete moron, will easily out-last an automatic. Regarding 12-bolts and 9-inch rears, any reasonable racer, if they're wanting to go FAST, is going to have the common sense to upgrade to something better than that pile-o-junk 10-bolt. This argument isn't over which is the best transmission for a STOCK vehicle...

Tell me, what's the difference between a MUSCLE CAR, and a SPORTS CAR? ALL MUSCLE CARS ARE SPORTS CARS, BUT NOT ALL SPORTS CARS ARE MUSCLE CARS. Call your insurance company and ask them what they consider your car- a "muscle" car, or a "sports" car?

BTW, ALL of the "sports cars" you listed would mop the floor with an f-body in a straight line. Oh, but the fbody would be modified? Well, it'd only be fair to modify those "sports cars" you listed, and you'd get the same result- the fbody LOSING. I've seen fbodies do awesome on road courses...but that can't be! They're only good for straight lines, right? Tell me, what's the 5th gen Camaro gonna be- A sports car...or a muscle car? It's going to have IRS, much like all those exotic "sports cars"...does this mean that the new Camaro will be worthless at the dragstrip!?!? If straightline acceleration is all you think the fbody is good for...then the fbody is pretty much a worthless car. Simple as that.

Yes he did. He asked whether he should keep an automatic or switch to a manual...in a subforum FREQUENTED BY AUTOMATIC FANS/DRIVERS. That's like me going to a FORD message board and asking, "Should I keep my Mustang, or buy the new 2010 Camaro when it comes out?"

If he wanted a BALANCED ANSWER, he would have either asked the same question on BOTH subforums, or placed it on a more GENERAL subforum.

As far as those records, we already discussed this. Autos are good for bracket racing and straightline acceleration, because ANY MORON can drive AN AUTOMATIC CAR in a STRAIGHT LINE. It's literally "dummy-proof". That way, of course, these titles belong to automatic cars...it's easier for them to. All they have to do is let off the brake and mash the gas...

donkey mule

Auto for me! Wow fury you have some pretty strong opinions - you might want to think a little more before posting some of them. Im sure there are plenty of people on this site who would disagree with you including myself. Autos have strengths as well as m6's and drag racing an A4 is not "dummy proof" when drag racing. I will not try to reason with you though as you appear to not be very reasonable. I do agree with you in that I do believe it is a personal preferance.

N4cer

iTrader: (11)

This is retarded. FURY, where have you found these guidelines you are stating as if they're fact? Nobody sets this "sub 9's" rule that you state as fact. Get a life dude. You'd argue the sky is green if someone said it's blue.

With all your BS pretend knowledge, why have you left the torque converter factor out of your arguments?

darrensls1

"Easier to manage" is why they are better bracket racers. They are better drag setups because torque converters with big STR's make better launches then clutch dumps. And as we all know the 60' is the most critical part of a drag race.

Again it doesn't take a genius to use a clutch and a shifter. Likewise it doesn't take a genius to shift the autos with RMVB.

WRONG! It's called a shift light. All the serious drag racers whether they have a manual or just a manual valve body use them. So that negates the rpm you shift at.

Any idiot will scew up a car. Auto ot manual. Either can be made fast but it takes money, research, the right parts and a good tuner to get the car fast. Then it takes a good launcher and shifter to get good times out of that car. That goes for both auto (if using a TH350/400 for example) or manual.

Anyone with full use of thier left leg and right hand can get good at shifting. It just takes practice. But you'll still be out launched by well setup autos.

For you that may be true. But that doesn't mean it's true for everyone. When you match the right gears with the right stall and use a T-brake the auto is deadly off the line.

A good example is my race against a C6 Vette. Here is a guy with a manual car, more HP, less weight and a decent shifter. The run ended with me getting a 12.4 @ 109 on a 1.7 60' to his 12.5 @ 112 and I believe he was around a 1.9 60'.

I won that race because my auto could out launch his manual. That's what they do. Again, when properly setup.

That is not true. The real thrill for me when I drag race is two fold. One is the launch (R/T and 60') and the second is winning. And we don't pull the same times. That's the point. They get better traps but I get better 60's and ET's. And it's the ET that wins the race (unless you're sleeping on the tree).

I agree with you. I'm not against manuals. In fact, my ultimate goal is to have a M6 Corvette as a street car someday to go along with my auto drag car. And if you had just made this point alone then I never would have replied. But when you insult autos and people who drive them whether it's directly or through a stupid video came analogy then I'm coming back with both barrels cocked.

That response was intended to point out how dumb your statement sounded. Mission accomplished.

I think you missed my point. First off all the 4L60E can be replaced with a better built one for $1700-$2500 depending on which power level you intend to be at. A decent Converter can be had for $500-700. But the stock 10 bolt can and has lasted auto guys well into the 10's.

Now take a manual and try to get 11's or 10's on a decent 60' and you need a clutch and rearend. The rearend is $2500 and the clutch is $500ish. At the end of the day you both spent about the same and the auto should still win the race.

My argument is why autos are better drag racers. And drag racers don't keep stock for long. If they do then they need a better job or a different hobby.

I wouldn't trust some insurance company employee to understand the difference between muscle cars and sports cars.

Sports car are two seaters, relatively light weight, good suspension, manual transmission, powerful motor, refined sounding exhaust and a heafty price tag.

Muscle cars are moderately heavier vehicles with back seats, manual or automatic transmission, moderate suspension (but nothing to write home about), powerful motor and loud enough exhaust to wake the dead

That's my definition.

Well of course they would mop the floor with a fbody. I am a firm believer in there is no replacement for displacement. Those cars all have less weight and a lot more HP. That wasn't the point. The point was that are "sports cars" by my definition. Muscle cars are meant to go fast in a straight line and destroy the cars in it's class. Try to buy any of the sports cars I mentioned for $20-30K new. Not gonna happen.

Obviously you didn't pay real close attention when you replied to this thread. This thread was started on 08-11-2006. That's well over a year ago. I think it's fair to say he probably made his decision all ready and likely doesn't even continue to read this thread.

So the reality is all you are doing here is to try and ruffle feathers in the automatic transmission section by insulting automatics and or the owners.

Actually you're wrong. If he wanted a balanced answer he would have put in in general lsx tech. Bias will happen in either manual or automatic transmission sections. Maybe he posted it here because he currently had a automatic.

And this thread is over a year old so it's likely he is no longer reading this to ask him. Not that it actually matters at this point.

That is not true. Unless you are telling me that NO ONE has the skills to race a manual. The fact is that the record holders in most cases do not have 4L60E's or 4L80E's. So they do have to shift and probably use a shift light. They just don't use a clutch.

So they do more then just "mash the gas". The titles belong to autos because the torque converters allow them to out launch a manual and in many cases shift less times during the race. They are a better drag racing setup period. You can disagree about that if you like but that doesn't make it any less true.

99Hawk262

iTrader: (19)

Wow, Fury = Dumbass. You might want to watch what you say, especially in the A4 section. You've pretty much offended everyone on here who chooses to use the auto over the 6-speed. I'm not a numbskull or an idiot. I had a 6-speed.....I prefer the A4. It's much faster than my old 6-speed SS could have ever been with the same mods, and it's very rewarding every time I make a pass down the track. You want to do it with a 6-speed, go for it and good luck. You're the only numbskull/idiot/moron in here with comments like that.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

The A4 is the better choice period agreed no matter where you get it

bd2bonez06

Fury your not to bright. Once you start making a little horsepower you will see the light. 890rwhp(supercharged)+stalled auto= instant boost and way faster than when i had my m12 in the car.

XtrmLS1spd

iTrader: (6)

I've had experience with both. My vote would have to go to the Automatic. To me, my TH350 is just as much of a blast than my M6 was. You can't beat the feeling of driving around in a stalled car either. People say that they like to choose their gear. Well, you can do the same in an auto. One thing I can't sand though is a stock auto. There just isn't any fun in that.

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

darrensls1

You brought this thread back to the top just to put in smilies? I'm not one to normally ask for a lock but this old thread has more lives then a cat. It was started back on 08-11-2006. I think he has made up his mind by now.

Can we get this one locked please?

Or at the very least can we stop bringing it to the top with posts that contain no information or insight

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

auto auto auto

Juiced

iTrader: (2)

Brunodrive, best of both worlds

MeanWS6

Real men drive TH400

cool whip

iTrader: (1)

Sticks are only fun when you're on flat ground, outside the city, not trying to eat or drink something, don't want the radio cranked up, etc...

Mr. Trick

iTrader: (19)

I know I'm bring up an old thread, but I wanted to add my thoughts to topic since I swaped my car from a4-m6. I'm still working out some bugs with my tune, so maybe my pov is somewhat skewed. When my car was an A4 I hated it with the stock converter. I then put in a vig 3600 and it was alot fun when I mashed the gas and always brought a smile to my face. In regular city driving it wasnt as fun as I was constantly worried because to get my car moving up a hill it required alot more gas then usual and I still had 2:73's, plus almost all the stop signs/lights are on inclines. On the flat areas It was close to stock. I still had the itch to shift my own gears, so I sold the converter to help me start saving money for the swap. While the m6 is alot of fun also, I miss the power I had off the line with the vig, my car has 3:73's with the m6 so its pretty quick off the line I just have to find the happy median between bogging and spinning. From a roll its a differant story of course. I would love for my car to be a4 again with the vig 3600, I miss just stepping on the gas flying out of the hole, with out worring about watching the tach so I dont bounce off the limiter. But I'm going to stick with the m6, cause its fun also, and I drive on the street and rarley go to the track. I think its just a "the grass is always greener on the other side" type of thing.

I have noticed I keep my radio lower when in the city lol. I dont turn it up till I'm on the high way.

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

Yea this is an old one..

I'm swapping to a T56 cause that's what I want. Yea, if I wanted a consistant car that I was in competitions with, trust me it would have stayed an Auto, and have a whole different setup.

I like it where it is, I've always wanted a T56 to cruise with, that's what I'm going to do and that's what makes me happy. That's my feeling, and no one can change what will make me happy with my own car.

darrensls1

Stop with this thread all ready. 2+ years is long enough for a thread to live. And we all know that a stalled auto is the way to go

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

People keep voting on it..that's why it pops back up..lol


Bump..just to be that guy..