This is whats needed for the 4l60e to 4l80e swap!
04-19-2007, 09:18 AM
#1
This is whats needed for the 4l60e to 4l80e swap! For the last couple months or so, I get PM's weekly asking whats all required for the 4l60e-4l80e swap. So I figured id put a list together and post it in here that way you can seacrh for it and have a complete list of what is needed. I know there are a couple other guys in here running the same setup so if I leave anything out feel free to post it up. Maybe the mods will sticky it. Heres the parts that are required for the swap:
~ 97+ 4l80e transmission. The older ones will work but may have to be modified. Ive also read below 97 the 4l80e's werent as strong. You can buy these from sponosors---> or you can pick one up at a junkyard and have it built. ( Mine came from an 02 2500hd 6.0L truck)
~ As far as building the trans. I know this was asked alot. The 4l80e comes factory strong unlike the 4l60e so it doesnt take much in upgrades to make them bullet proof. In my trans I ordered a complete factory overhaul kit with all new seals, clutches, bushings, and etc.. Instead of using the factory clutches provided, I went with alto red eagle clutches. That is the only ugrade ive done.
~ 4l80e transmission mount
~ A custom made converter to fit the 4l80e but yet bolt up still using the mounting spots on the LS1 style flexplate. (I personally keep the stock LS1 flexplate) Right now the only two vendors I know or have seen that make the converter for this swap is Yank and Vigilante. Im sure there are others out there, but these seem to be the main ones for right now. Circle D also makes a converter for the swap now. The specs are below:
Custom Built 4L80 Multi Disk:
LS1 Bolt pattern
Billet Front cover and Billet Clutch
3 Disk Lock-Up - High carbon lining
Furnace brazed and tig welded
3 bearing design
245MM or 258MM Diameter choice.
Custom built for your car
~ You can use the stock flexplate. Ive also seen the TCI LS1 flexplate be used with this swap without any complications.
~ New transmission crossmember as the 4l80e doenst have the TQ arm mount on the trans anymore. The new crossmembers have mounts on the crossmember its self for the TQ arm mounting point. I used the one from yank. BMR also makes these. Im not sure is Spohn or UMI makes these or not. Supposedly the M6 crossmember can be modified to work. I have no more info on this, so if anybody does let me know and Ill add it.
~ Slip yoke for a th400 transmission. You have to becarefull with this one since there are 2-3 different types of output shafts on the 4l80e. Some have splines all the way up to and steel O-ring, some have splines that go half the way up, then theres a space then the steel O-ring. You'll have to reomve the tailshaft housing in order to see which one you have. The stock u-joint will be used with the new yoke and is a 1330 series. Also here is a link about different yokes for the 4l80e. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=4l80e
~ The stock driveshaft will work, no need to lengthen or shorten it. One thing I did find was the once all was installed the yoke was about 3/4-1in to long. I called the place I got it from and they told me I could cut it with a band saw then bevel the edges. So far I havent had any problems with this.
~ The wiring harness, and harness adapter from speartech. The main 4l60e harness plug will not work with the 4l80e. Speartech has and adapter the plugs into the 4l60e harness then plugs into the 4l80e. The other harness that comes with the kit it the VSS plug. The 4l80e has two VSS senors on the drivers side and the stock 4l60e only has one. You will have to connect this to the actual PCM its self. then plug the new added harness into the FRONT VSS. If you plug it in the rear you are going to have idle problems. (been there done that, lol)
~ The PCM "WILL" control the 4l80e. Ive seen this alot on here where people say you have to buy a standalone contoler from TCI. If you want to go that route then thats fine but the stock PCM will control the 4l80e. You will have to have the PCM flashed with a new operating system. I simply pulled the .hpt or .bin file from my car, and also found a stock 4l80e truck .bin emailed it to Keith at HPtuners and he fixed it to reflect the new OS to control the 4l80e. You can have EFIlive do this also, but you, yourself can not make these changes.
~ 98 PCM's will not control the 4l80e. There are a couple alternatives for 98's. You could run a manual valve body meaning you shift gears yourself. Or you can control the 4l80e either with a TCI stand alone controller or the BS3. The BS3 has a module where you can contol any GM trans just like you would with HPtuners, EFIlive, or LS1edit. You could also swap out the PCM for a 99+ PCM then have the OS changed. (thanks obZidian!)
~ To save yourself alot of hassle and headache, go ahead and order the lokar flexible dipstick and dipstick tube from summit. I did not do this at first. I used a stock 4l80e dipstick tubeand dipstick that took over and hour of bending, twisting, and cussing to get it to fit. It will tuck nicely under the firewall and you'll barely see it. It worked out fine, but it botherd me knowing it was that tight in there, so I removed it and put the lokar flexible in. Took all of 5 mins to install the flexible tube. So id recommend you save yourself the hassle and go flexible.
~ Dust cover is optional, I chose to run one. Some choose not to run one. Its probably a good thing to run one in case you ever hit something on the road or etc.
~ Trans cooler if you dont already have one. The bigger the better.
~ Stock trans cooling lines will work if you modify them, or you could get some nice braided lines. Beings the connecting spots for the trans cooler lines are a little futher in placement from the 4l60e lines, I cut my stock lines, flared both ends a little, and placed a 9-10in rubber hose with hose clamps on each end to give me the extra length I needed. You will also have to bend the connection side a little to get the right angle coming off the trans. Also if you choose to run the braided hose or any aftermarket hose make sure you have the correct trans fittings:
~ Stock shifter will work. I had to take the small bracket the where the shifter cable connects to the 4l60e and swap it out with the one on the 4l80e. Its the part on the trans where the gear changing occurs. The shifter cable will snap on this bracket. (sorry if it doesnt make sense) The part where the shifter cable attaches on the 4l80e is alot bigger then the 4l60e, but if you swap them out you'll be fine.
~ Cut the two ear's off the side of the bell housing to give you extra clearence. Even after doing this, you will still have to bang on the trans tunnel a bit with a sledge hammer to get the belhousing to clear. It sounds bad but its really not. Once you get that to clear, you will have to take a die grinder and cut a small square section from the trans tunnel bracing towards the rear of the trans. The main harness plug will need this room to clear. Without doing this the trans will not line up straight, then you'll never get the trans bolted to the crossmember and the connector will leak.
I belive thats all of it. Like I mentioned above if anybody has anything I left out let me know and ill make some changes. I know mightymouse had a link to some pics of the swap, if he wants I can add a link. Cablebandit aslo had alot of info on this.
Here is a price break down in what I have in mine. You may be able to do it cheaper, then again it may cost more.
~ Mightymouse's M6-4l80e swap with pictures: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=4l80e
~ 4l80e trans from junyard- $600 shipped to me
~ Rebuild kit- $ 157
~ Build cost - Free
~ Converter and crossmember from yank- $1145
~ Lokar dipstick and tube - $80
~ Speartech wiring harness's- $169
~ Trans mount- $14
~ Slip yoke- $97
~ Dust cover/shield - $70
~ Trans cooler- $40
~ OS changed- $free
***EDIT added a stock truck 4l80e .bin that can be sent with your stock .bin to HPtuners for the OS change***
Thanks!
~ 97+ 4l80e transmission. The older ones will work but may have to be modified. Ive also read below 97 the 4l80e's werent as strong. You can buy these from sponosors---> or you can pick one up at a junkyard and have it built. ( Mine came from an 02 2500hd 6.0L truck)
~ As far as building the trans. I know this was asked alot. The 4l80e comes factory strong unlike the 4l60e so it doesnt take much in upgrades to make them bullet proof. In my trans I ordered a complete factory overhaul kit with all new seals, clutches, bushings, and etc.. Instead of using the factory clutches provided, I went with alto red eagle clutches. That is the only ugrade ive done.
~ 4l80e transmission mount
~ A custom made converter to fit the 4l80e but yet bolt up still using the mounting spots on the LS1 style flexplate. (I personally keep the stock LS1 flexplate) Right now the only two vendors I know or have seen that make the converter for this swap is Yank and Vigilante. Im sure there are others out there, but these seem to be the main ones for right now. Circle D also makes a converter for the swap now. The specs are below:
Custom Built 4L80 Multi Disk:
LS1 Bolt pattern
Billet Front cover and Billet Clutch
3 Disk Lock-Up - High carbon lining
Furnace brazed and tig welded
3 bearing design
245MM or 258MM Diameter choice.
Custom built for your car
~ You can use the stock flexplate. Ive also seen the TCI LS1 flexplate be used with this swap without any complications.
~ New transmission crossmember as the 4l80e doenst have the TQ arm mount on the trans anymore. The new crossmembers have mounts on the crossmember its self for the TQ arm mounting point. I used the one from yank. BMR also makes these. Im not sure is Spohn or UMI makes these or not. Supposedly the M6 crossmember can be modified to work. I have no more info on this, so if anybody does let me know and Ill add it.
~ Slip yoke for a th400 transmission. You have to becarefull with this one since there are 2-3 different types of output shafts on the 4l80e. Some have splines all the way up to and steel O-ring, some have splines that go half the way up, then theres a space then the steel O-ring. You'll have to reomve the tailshaft housing in order to see which one you have. The stock u-joint will be used with the new yoke and is a 1330 series. Also here is a link about different yokes for the 4l80e. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=4l80e
~ The stock driveshaft will work, no need to lengthen or shorten it. One thing I did find was the once all was installed the yoke was about 3/4-1in to long. I called the place I got it from and they told me I could cut it with a band saw then bevel the edges. So far I havent had any problems with this.
~ The wiring harness, and harness adapter from speartech. The main 4l60e harness plug will not work with the 4l80e. Speartech has and adapter the plugs into the 4l60e harness then plugs into the 4l80e. The other harness that comes with the kit it the VSS plug. The 4l80e has two VSS senors on the drivers side and the stock 4l60e only has one. You will have to connect this to the actual PCM its self. then plug the new added harness into the FRONT VSS. If you plug it in the rear you are going to have idle problems. (been there done that, lol)
~ The PCM "WILL" control the 4l80e. Ive seen this alot on here where people say you have to buy a standalone contoler from TCI. If you want to go that route then thats fine but the stock PCM will control the 4l80e. You will have to have the PCM flashed with a new operating system. I simply pulled the .hpt or .bin file from my car, and also found a stock 4l80e truck .bin emailed it to Keith at HPtuners and he fixed it to reflect the new OS to control the 4l80e. You can have EFIlive do this also, but you, yourself can not make these changes.
~ 98 PCM's will not control the 4l80e. There are a couple alternatives for 98's. You could run a manual valve body meaning you shift gears yourself. Or you can control the 4l80e either with a TCI stand alone controller or the BS3. The BS3 has a module where you can contol any GM trans just like you would with HPtuners, EFIlive, or LS1edit. You could also swap out the PCM for a 99+ PCM then have the OS changed. (thanks obZidian!)
~ To save yourself alot of hassle and headache, go ahead and order the lokar flexible dipstick and dipstick tube from summit. I did not do this at first. I used a stock 4l80e dipstick tubeand dipstick that took over and hour of bending, twisting, and cussing to get it to fit. It will tuck nicely under the firewall and you'll barely see it. It worked out fine, but it botherd me knowing it was that tight in there, so I removed it and put the lokar flexible in. Took all of 5 mins to install the flexible tube. So id recommend you save yourself the hassle and go flexible.
~ Dust cover is optional, I chose to run one. Some choose not to run one. Its probably a good thing to run one in case you ever hit something on the road or etc.
~ Trans cooler if you dont already have one. The bigger the better.
~ Stock trans cooling lines will work if you modify them, or you could get some nice braided lines. Beings the connecting spots for the trans cooler lines are a little futher in placement from the 4l60e lines, I cut my stock lines, flared both ends a little, and placed a 9-10in rubber hose with hose clamps on each end to give me the extra length I needed. You will also have to bend the connection side a little to get the right angle coming off the trans. Also if you choose to run the braided hose or any aftermarket hose make sure you have the correct trans fittings:
Here is what he's talking about. The fitting on the right is for the rear, the one on the left is for the front and the same as used on 4L60E's
The rear one is longer because it extends into the center support, theres a seal on the center support that this extended fitting reaches, so I'd assume without the extension it's going to leak internally. This lube circuit change was probably the biggest most extensive change made to the 4L80E in the '97 build date.
The rear one is longer because it extends into the center support, theres a seal on the center support that this extended fitting reaches, so I'd assume without the extension it's going to leak internally. This lube circuit change was probably the biggest most extensive change made to the 4L80E in the '97 build date.
~ Stock shifter will work. I had to take the small bracket the where the shifter cable connects to the 4l60e and swap it out with the one on the 4l80e. Its the part on the trans where the gear changing occurs. The shifter cable will snap on this bracket. (sorry if it doesnt make sense) The part where the shifter cable attaches on the 4l80e is alot bigger then the 4l60e, but if you swap them out you'll be fine.
~ Cut the two ear's off the side of the bell housing to give you extra clearence. Even after doing this, you will still have to bang on the trans tunnel a bit with a sledge hammer to get the belhousing to clear. It sounds bad but its really not. Once you get that to clear, you will have to take a die grinder and cut a small square section from the trans tunnel bracing towards the rear of the trans. The main harness plug will need this room to clear. Without doing this the trans will not line up straight, then you'll never get the trans bolted to the crossmember and the connector will leak.
I belive thats all of it. Like I mentioned above if anybody has anything I left out let me know and ill make some changes. I know mightymouse had a link to some pics of the swap, if he wants I can add a link. Cablebandit aslo had alot of info on this.
Here is a price break down in what I have in mine. You may be able to do it cheaper, then again it may cost more.
~ Mightymouse's M6-4l80e swap with pictures: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=4l80e
~ 4l80e trans from junyard- $600 shipped to me
~ Rebuild kit- $ 157
~ Build cost - Free
~ Converter and crossmember from yank- $1145
~ Lokar dipstick and tube - $80
~ Speartech wiring harness's- $169
~ Trans mount- $14
~ Slip yoke- $97
~ Dust cover/shield - $70
~ Trans cooler- $40
~ OS changed- $free
***EDIT added a stock truck 4l80e .bin that can be sent with your stock .bin to HPtuners for the OS change***
Thanks!
Last edited by Z'mnypit; 10-13-2008 at 01:40 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Z'mnypit:
JoshuaGrooms83 (07-18-2022), PHTCBRA (03-24-2023)
04-19-2007, 12:55 PM
#2
Originally Posted by barkingspud
Excellent post!!! I wonder how much of this applies to the 2005 GTO?
04-20-2007, 11:51 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by Z'mnypit
~ The PCM "WILL" control the 4l80e. ... Im sure EFIlive could do this also, but you, yourself can not make these changes.
04-30-2007, 09:28 AM
#5
Originally Posted by RooRnZ28
would you still need to buy a custom made converter for a 80e swap to an ls1 camaro, even if you got the crank spacer? or can you just use a regular 4l80e converter with the spacer?
if that doesnt make sense..... do you have to buy a crank spacer at all?
also, if you end up buying the TCI controller, do you still need to get the wiring harness from speartech, or will the tci plug right into the trans?
if that doesnt make sense..... do you have to buy a crank spacer at all?
also, if you end up buying the TCI controller, do you still need to get the wiring harness from speartech, or will the tci plug right into the trans?
I am not running a spacer.
You shouldnt need the wiring harness from speartech, at least not all of it. The 4l80e has two VSS sensors so in order to get the speedo to work you should only need the VSS sensor harness from them. The rest should be done with the TCI controller.
04-30-2007, 07:58 PM
#6
Originally Posted by RooRnZ28
oh yea, how is ground clearance? any different than the 60-e? i was thinking of using the deep pan, but is it really necessary?
some pics would be great of like where you had to hammer for clearance, as well as any places on the trans that needed to be modified.. stuff like that!
dude, your awesome, thanks for the help!!
some pics would be great of like where you had to hammer for clearance, as well as any places on the trans that needed to be modified.. stuff like that!
dude, your awesome, thanks for the help!!
I didnt get to my car today but the 1st chance I get Ill take all the pics I can.
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05-03-2007, 10:34 AM
#8
Originally Posted by LS1rulz
So about the slip yoke. What series do I get? 1310, 1330, 1350? That depends on our stock U-joint, right? But what size is our stock one?
The stock u joint is 1330...
05-15-2007, 02:23 PM
#9
Originally Posted by RooRnZ28
on the TCI computer harness, does it plug into the stock computer still? or will i be getting SES lights and have to get them tuned out.... is it just plug and play, or am i going to have to be changing shift points and crap....
05-17-2007, 02:21 PM
#11
Originally Posted by sdimess84
Ok guys need your help. I just got my rebuilt 4l80e yesterday and trying to find a yoke. The tail shaft is the about 5" splines and a ruber seal. Anyone know what slip yoke I will need?
05-17-2007, 02:23 PM
#12
Originally Posted by DogNutz
Just run a truck PCM and recalibrate it for your car! Goodbye wiring adapter!
05-17-2007, 09:27 PM
#13
alright got a picture of my tailshaft. Let me know what you think on which slip yoke I need. 
and will this flexplate work with a 2003 5.3 motor?
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ct_Code=399273
and will this flexplate work with a 2003 5.3 motor?
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ct_Code=399273
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JoshuaGrooms83 (07-18-2022)
05-18-2007, 08:17 AM
#14
Originally Posted by sdimess84
alright got a picture of my tailshaft. Let me know what you think on which slip yoke I need.
and will this flexplate work with a 2003 5.3 motor?
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ct_Code=399273
and will this flexplate work with a 2003 5.3 motor?
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ct_Code=399273
Last edited by Z'mnypit; 05-18-2007 at 09:53 AM.
05-18-2007, 09:44 AM
#15
Originally Posted by Z'mnypit
Ok, you have the shaft that isnt splined all the way up. You'll need a slip yoke for a th400 that has about 2-3in of splined area inside then the rest isnt splined so it will slide over the rubber o-ring. Here is where I got mine from and the people are very knowledgeable and prices are really good and shipping was hella fast. Just call and tell them what you have, and also tell them what driveshaft your using so they can choose the right ujoint series also.
05-18-2007, 09:55 AM
#16
Originally Posted by sdimess84
alright thanks, but I dont see a website or anything. Do you know anything about the flywheel I posted?
Do you guys know if any of the sponsors carry the A4 wiring harness? I'm trying to go m6 -> 4L80e, but apparently the guy I paid for a harness and some other swap parts is robbing me instead.
Last edited by Ragtop 99; 11-23-2007 at 10:55 AM.
05-18-2007, 10:09 AM
#17
well i called the drive line place. I think he said that I need a back cut slip yoke that he doesnt carry. He did say that I could use a fully splined slip yoke that I just need to remove the rubber o-ring so it wont be stiff and bind up. I dont know about removing that o-ring or not. wont it leak if I do?
05-23-2007, 11:12 PM
#18
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I found a company that does wiring. Called, and for $49 shipped they're sending me the wires (with pins pre-installed) to pin into my PCM to give the car a 4L80e plug. Friggin' sweet!
06-12-2007, 01:11 PM
#20
Guys, what are you doing for fluid lines? I got my 4L80e yesterday (YESSSS!) and the lines are screw-in, but have nothing sticking out. I know NOTHING about this, so it could be normal. But either way I need to order something to get the fluid moving.
Also, how long is your slip yoke after cutting?
Last edited by Ragtop 99; 11-23-2007 at 10:59 AM.
