4l60e built for 10.05@133?
#21
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[QUOTE=Black LS1 T/A;9008992]OK ... I've gone thru five tranny rebuilds and none last thru the year.
i am a little confused? are you saying you have gone threw 5 performabuilt trannys? if so we need to talk...........
i am a little confused? are you saying you have gone threw 5 performabuilt trannys? if so we need to talk...........
#22
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OK ... I've gone thru five tranny rebuilds and none last thru the year.
The best I could dyno with my 6-rib was 549 RWHP / 757 RWTQ because of belt slippage at higher RPM's in 3rd gear. Now that I have 8-rib pullies, I feel the HP should match the TQ, and both numbers may even rise.
I have a 422 built by Golden West Performance , bored and stroked from a 6.0L iron block engine, procharger D-1SC running about 12 to 13 PSI, Pro Yank 3400, M/T ET Streets 11.5x16, 12 Bolt Mark Williams 3.73 Rear End, QA1 shocks, standard suspension mods, etc
I get stuff like this happens to me all the time (I run the most expensive tranny fluid) ... busted pump, stripped clutches, broken tail piece, sun shell, etc, etc. I've seen 3rd and 4th gear leave me on the track, and I limped home (or to my trailer now) in 2nd gear. I REALLY don't want to go to a 3 speed tranny like the TH400 or that big, heavy-assed 4L80E. I would LOVE for the 4L60E to work!
If you want to see her run just before I started breaking trannies, here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPJWcaGeBnQ
This was before the 422, with the boost backed down to 8 PSI and only holding the car at half throttle in 1st gear. At 10 PSI during that timeframe, she ran 10.98 @ 126 MPH. I should get in the low 10's with this motor, but my drive-train and suspension hasn't been up to the task.
One reason I have been lazy about replacing my oil pump and installing my QA1's, Light-weight crossmember, A-Arms and 15" calipers is, I know when I do all that work, she will be sitting right back in the garage with a broken tranny.
The best I could dyno with my 6-rib was 549 RWHP / 757 RWTQ because of belt slippage at higher RPM's in 3rd gear. Now that I have 8-rib pullies, I feel the HP should match the TQ, and both numbers may even rise.
I have a 422 built by Golden West Performance , bored and stroked from a 6.0L iron block engine, procharger D-1SC running about 12 to 13 PSI, Pro Yank 3400, M/T ET Streets 11.5x16, 12 Bolt Mark Williams 3.73 Rear End, QA1 shocks, standard suspension mods, etc
I get stuff like this happens to me all the time (I run the most expensive tranny fluid) ... busted pump, stripped clutches, broken tail piece, sun shell, etc, etc. I've seen 3rd and 4th gear leave me on the track, and I limped home (or to my trailer now) in 2nd gear. I REALLY don't want to go to a 3 speed tranny like the TH400 or that big, heavy-assed 4L80E. I would LOVE for the 4L60E to work!
If you want to see her run just before I started breaking trannies, here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPJWcaGeBnQ
This was before the 422, with the boost backed down to 8 PSI and only holding the car at half throttle in 1st gear. At 10 PSI during that timeframe, she ran 10.98 @ 126 MPH. I should get in the low 10's with this motor, but my drive-train and suspension hasn't been up to the task.
One reason I have been lazy about replacing my oil pump and installing my QA1's, Light-weight crossmember, A-Arms and 15" calipers is, I know when I do all that work, she will be sitting right back in the garage with a broken tranny.
Frank at PerformaBuilt
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Last edited by performabuilt; 03-26-2008 at 03:52 PM.
#23
"All Motor 9 Second club member"
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There is something weird going on. Looking at your logs, it's almost like their is a calibration issue with the tach or something. If you are rolling into it off the line you may be caught between cruise and WOT tables. I tend to normally trust the rpms as a reference to where the car is shifting as it is going to drop once the next shift is actually made. The gear command could be delayed for a variety of reasons so I do not log that PID. Your shift extension is all over the place as well. It should be pretty darn consistent unless you are shifting at a much lower or higher rpm. On that one log you shifted at 6500-6600 and your SE was over 1000 off between 1-2 and 2-3 ?
I set my shift points at 6500-6600 and they nail the shifts at that rpm as expected unless the trans fluid is abnormally cold or the air quailty is stellar and then we are only talking maybe a 100 rpm variance.
I would try logging with the minimum PIDs (eliminating the shift command) and see how close your shifts based on rpms are to where you have them commanded in the tune. They should be consistently within a few hundred rpm. A loose TC will allow some over shoot especially at the 1-2 shift.
Keep in mind that when you spin off the line, it really throws the pcm for a loop so you may end up chasing your tail until you get her to somewhat stick.
Are you vacuum modulated?
The transmission issues I have no idea. That would be a good question for the builder, but there is something going on, but I would not be manually shifting that transmission. If you downshift after a launch it IS going to wanna break something.
Stab N Steer !!!!!
Good luck!
I set my shift points at 6500-6600 and they nail the shifts at that rpm as expected unless the trans fluid is abnormally cold or the air quailty is stellar and then we are only talking maybe a 100 rpm variance.
I would try logging with the minimum PIDs (eliminating the shift command) and see how close your shifts based on rpms are to where you have them commanded in the tune. They should be consistently within a few hundred rpm. A loose TC will allow some over shoot especially at the 1-2 shift.
Keep in mind that when you spin off the line, it really throws the pcm for a loop so you may end up chasing your tail until you get her to somewhat stick.
Are you vacuum modulated?
The transmission issues I have no idea. That would be a good question for the builder, but there is something going on, but I would not be manually shifting that transmission. If you downshift after a launch it IS going to wanna break something.
Stab N Steer !!!!!
Good luck!
#24
Moderator
[quote=heymoej;9010636] Some time after I got the supercharger in, the pump failed. I took the tranny out, bought my first yank converter and installed a tranny cooler. Ran fine about a year or so.
The first time I tried to do a pull with the 422 and my ET Streets ... the FIRST pull, it wiped out 3rd and 4th gear.
I bought a "Performance Tranny" I was told would hold up to my power. I made it thru the rest of the summer, but the next summer I went to the strip it went bye-bye. 3/4 clutches again.
Another guy who claimed he had built trannies for guys up to 800 HP convinced me to give him a try (one guy he built one for corrobarated). He put the Z-Pak? in it. I made it thru that summer ... 3/4 hasn't failed on me anymore, but then the planetary broke. He said he would make good on it. Took it back, the next time the sun shell broke. The last time the pump shredded all to hell. Each time he did not bill me for his labor, but I had to crawl around on the concrete to take that sucker out, put it back in and I paid for the parts. I got tired of looking at a 4L60E, but don't want to revert to a 3-speed transmission.
Since the last time I took it to him, it has been fine. But, needless to say, I don't have a lot of confidence in this build over the long haul.
The first time I tried to do a pull with the 422 and my ET Streets ... the FIRST pull, it wiped out 3rd and 4th gear.
I bought a "Performance Tranny" I was told would hold up to my power. I made it thru the rest of the summer, but the next summer I went to the strip it went bye-bye. 3/4 clutches again.
Another guy who claimed he had built trannies for guys up to 800 HP convinced me to give him a try (one guy he built one for corrobarated). He put the Z-Pak? in it. I made it thru that summer ... 3/4 hasn't failed on me anymore, but then the planetary broke. He said he would make good on it. Took it back, the next time the sun shell broke. The last time the pump shredded all to hell. Each time he did not bill me for his labor, but I had to crawl around on the concrete to take that sucker out, put it back in and I paid for the parts. I got tired of looking at a 4L60E, but don't want to revert to a 3-speed transmission.
Since the last time I took it to him, it has been fine. But, needless to say, I don't have a lot of confidence in this build over the long haul.
#25
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Originally Posted by
[B
[B
2. Go to track: Shifts waaaaaaaAAAAAAYYYY early. 1-2 about 4800 RPMs[/B],
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#26
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I will send my tranny back to FLT to get refreshened and it would be practically brand new..check it out https://ls1tech.com/forums/lsx-parts-sale/887485-fs-level-5-4l65e-flt-c6-z06-wheels-w-tires.html
great way to save some money!
great way to save some money!
#27
Moderator
We have seen this before. And it will kill the 3-4 clutch quick. I cant say this will fix yours but it has fixed a couple others when its come up. Customers of ours have reported back the fix is how I know about it. Theres a setting to do with the TPS when you look at it you will see it is set at 60 move it up to 70 , in the few cases we have been involved in that solved it. It seems to happen on some cars with either larger MAFs or CAM and HEADS and LOOSE stalls. Its seems to vary a couple people I have run into with the issue it was intermtant or TRACK ONLY and a couple others it was any time they went WOT. Hope this helps. I wish I could tell you exactly what the name of the setting is. But cannot remember but I told another guy about it a few weeks ago and when he looked he had no trouble finding it.
It definitely feels like it is TPS related. It mostly happens at the track. I run great on the street. But, in important races back home on country roads, where we do long burnouts and even put a little bleach down to heat up, I et the same thing.
Disappointing.
The car runs like a bat out of hell, but when I race, it falls on it's face. It seems to be related to when I get good traction, that's when it happens. With my Street tires or less sticky drag radials on, it just spins thru the gears, but it shifts predicatably about 300 or so RPMs after the shift points I've set.
#29
Moderator
I will send my tranny back to FLT to get refreshened and it would be practically brand new..check it out https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887485
great way to save some money!
great way to save some money!
Thanks!
#30
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Yes, they replace anything that shows signs of wear....basically, when FLT refreshes a tranny, you get the same thing as if you'd just bought a brand new unit. That was one of numerous factors behind my purchasing one from them.....lifetime refreshes for a very small fee, and lets not forget their bulletproof reputation!! As for warranty, I'm sure it would come with one but you'd need to PM Vince and ask him.
#31
Moderator
Here are some TPS/MAF/MAP related parms I find; do any of these ring a bell? (If not, if you can get the calibration section from that customer, or dig it out of your memory, I'd much appreciate it.)
(Engine Diagnostics)
MAF Parameters
Parm and Value: MAF Test Max TPS: 50
Maximum throttle position (TPS) allowed to run the MAF frequency fail tests.
TPS Parameters
Parm and Value: TPS Test Min MAP: 55
This is the lower MAP threshold to allow the TPS diagnostic tests to executed.
A failed TPS diagnostic test will set DTC P0121.
Parm and Value: TPS Test Max MAP: 65
This is the upper MAP threshold to allow the TPS diagnostic tests to executed.
A failed TPS diagnostic test will set DTC P0121.
TPS vs RPM Test Lower
(This is a range of RPM values vs TPS%)
For this diagnostic test the PCM will monitor the actual TPS position and engine RPM then referring to this table will expect the TPS to be above/equal to these values for a given RPM.
For cammed cars that idle above stock RPMs the lower thresholds may need to be lowered to stop a TPS fault code being set.
TPS vs RPM Test Upper
(This is a range of RPM values vs TPS%)
For this diagnostic test the PCM will monitor the actual TPS position and engine RPM then referring to this table will expect the TPS to be below/equal to these values for a given RPM.
#34
what power adder,how heavy,how many cubes,what is the power band ? a 4l60e can in some circumstances survive that type of power but typically its a crap shoot. There are only a handful of units proported to have survied that type of abuse for any real length of time. The trick is shifting the unit just right. I really think your goals are a bit unrealistic for a 4l60e. there are other alternatives.
#36
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If you don't want to have to worry about that code coming up and ruining your shifting and potentially your tranny just disable it completely by setting the TPS max to 100 and TPS min to 0. Setting it higher slowly bit by bit works as well to find the threshold but it's a trial and error and not worth it IMO.
#37
"All Motor 9 Second club member"
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If you don't want to have to worry about that code coming up and ruining your shifting and potentially your tranny just disable it completely by setting the TPS max to 100 and TPS min to 0. Setting it higher slowly bit by bit works as well to find the threshold but it's a trial and error and not worth it IMO.
That's exactly what I did also. Inever expoerienced the symptoms you described, but I go the the tip from a fellow LS1tech member a while back.
It makes sense. G/L!!
#39
If you don't want to have to worry about that code coming up and ruining your shifting and potentially your tranny just disable it completely by setting the TPS max to 100 and TPS min to 0. Setting it higher slowly bit by bit works as well to find the threshold but it's a trial and error and not worth it IMO.
I highly recommend you run a Vacuum Modulator on your tranny.
I tell folks each and every day that taking a 4L60E into severe duty is a compromise at best. You have to resolve yourself to the fact that you will break the unit from time to time. It is inevitable. It's Drag Racing friend!
I tell guys that unless I am building a 2,500 H/P Glide anything else is a compromise! Meaning, if you want to keep a medium duty transmission in a severse duty application expect it to break. The best builders in the business cannot predict a hard parts failure, they can only build the unit using the best components, best skills and secrets they know to use.
Sometimes though, the units with the best parts do not last long because they were not setup properly. The 4L60E is not for everybody's bench.
Good luck. if you would like to discuss your car in detail feel free to call me. No problem making the time for a fellow drag racer!
g
#40
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RE: Black LS1 TA
For one thing I dont know why at that power level you are trying to run without 28" tires, that car has no traction which is probably a big reason you keep breaking trannys. My car has a very similar power setup and cuts consistant 1.32 to 1.36 60's at 3685lbs.
For one thing I dont know why at that power level you are trying to run without 28" tires, that car has no traction which is probably a big reason you keep breaking trannys. My car has a very similar power setup and cuts consistant 1.32 to 1.36 60's at 3685lbs.