LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I agree.

WECIV

I would disagree with a bailout.

I would support a 10 tariff of 10k US Dollars on cars not made in the US. If a car is made in the US whether it be a Bimmer, Toyota, etc, it does not get a tariff.

The catch to my tariff would be that each yr one thousand comes off of the tariff. Giving the US auto industry time to catch up and recoup their losses without our tax dollars.

But, if a company makes its cars here with US jobs...then they should not pay a tariff.

W

TheRival

I agree with this notion! what a great idea! i am not sure how you would begin to breach this topic with the us government but i would love to see something of this nature brought to the table!

the only problem i can foresee with this tariff is that the amount of monies to be placed on each vehicle would have to be in proportion to its market value. You cannot charge 10K on a car worth 15K just the same as you would charge 10K on a car worth 80K. it would have to be some proportion.

Z28 DIddy

That's an interesting idea. I do think that all of the large auto manufacturers are truly global companies. The only thing identifying an import or domestic is where it's corporate headquarters reside. Would that mean that cars made by GM in Canada would also be charged a $10K tariff? Simple economics applied to tariffs show that tariffs increase prices, which reduces demand. There would be some consumers switching over to domestics. However, with the economy in it's current shape, I believe that more consumers would simply not purchase new cars. Decreased demand would just make the situation worse. Consumer spending is what pulls a country (in this case the world) out of a recession. This spending is usually started by GOVT spending (building highways for example) which adds jobs and allows consumers to spend.

Plus, if we add a tariff on imports, other countries will do the same. If everyone starts tryign to protect their own companies, the consumers will be the only ones who suffer.

05CherryGXP

The tarrif is a really bad idea and doesn't address one of the key issues, domestic labor rates.

First off tarrifs have nasty consequences. Early in his term Bush decided to put a tarrif on the Chinese steel industry to prevent the Chinese from dumping cheap steel on America and of course to protect the American industry. The Europeans were worried that if America was off limits, China would instead dump their cheap steel in Europe and hurt the European steel industry. So Europe placed a tarrif on American produce, because we ship Europe a lot of produce and they knew it would hurt a lot of American businesses if there was a tarrif on it. So of course America complains about the European tarrif and the Europeans tell us "Get rid of the steel tarrif and we'll dump the produce tarrif."

Basically America's econ is global and too exposed to counter tarrifs for us to be able to slap people around with tarrifs, because we'll get slapped back just as hard or harder.

Secondly one of the key issues is that the average non-Union American factory worker for the Asian 3 costs somewhere around 45 dollars an hour. The average UAW worker costs 75 dollars an hour. So lets say there was a tarrif on all imported cars and car parts. This actually doesn't help GM. As it stands right now GM buys a lot of foreign car parts (Aisin clutches, German radios, etc, etc). So now its parts cost more (but so do everyone elses) so all prices would rise, and we the consumer pay more.

Lets say the tarrif was so high that we went back to Henry Ford's method of build everything in one American factory. No foreign suppliers, etc. So now Toyota pays 45 dollars an hour from start to finish to build a car. GM pays 75 dollars an hour from start to finish. Guess who still has the price advantage?

The UAW either needs to get off its *** and unionize those American works that work for the Asian 3 and bring their wage in line with the Big 3's ages or else the UAW needs to come down and price match non-union labor prices.

GM also has a number of supply chain weaknesses that need to be dealt with too. I'm not saying that line worker costs are GM's only problem, just that tarrifs don't solve them.

TheRival

let the record show that i retract my statement on tariffs... LOL

Z28 DIddy

^^^^^

Z28 DIddy

Damn... Rival got in there before my post got in!

Let the record show I was pointing at CherryGXP's post!

dankl

iTrader: (1)

^^^The records have been updated and all accounts corrected for.

TheRival

alright this thread is just about done... i am going to troll...i mean hang around some other threads now i hope i don't get hated on as much but if i do...meh such is life right?

TT632

iTrader: (3)

On the Contrary, its how many Americans that they employ that matters to our economy and our well being. GM employs as many Americans as all of the import manufacturers combined and if you flow this down to the supplier level the big three can be shown to support American jobs into the millions vs a few hundred thousand American jobs for the Imports.

GM and Ford go under we will go into a depression. Toyota goes down, we'll be a prosperious nation.

The Japanese and more specifically the Germans and Koreans already heavily subsidize their Automotive industry and we freak when Our government steps in to do the same for Ours.

Sopcich04

yahoo is a bunch of hippie bullhit anyways. if ts not eco friendly then its the worst thing ever.
i do blame the big 3 for not keeping up with the times but a few years ago SUVs trucks and other low mpg cars were selling like hotcakes
but nowadays if ur car doesnt **** frabreeze then ur some iroc driving redneck who doesnt care about the future

WECIV

The key to keep US jobs at home is...

Tariffs...US workers cannot compete with Chinese workers making 50 cents a day
Tort controls...workers are too capable of suing their bosses
Unions must be placed under control...they agitate for too high of wages to make products here
Not shifting to socialized medicine...taxes would be too high in our country for business to prosper

W

chaman

iTrader: (5)

Cars didnt killed the automotive industry......Executives with big ******* egos did...I say **** them, go bankrupt and learn the basics of how to properly run a business.

Jakes Dad

The original poster referenced the Big Three with no mention to any issues Foreign manufacturers had.

How easy one forgets GM is still the US's best selling line of vehicles.
The two best selling VEHICLES in AMERICA are built by Ford and GM
The poster referenced vehicles made in the 70 by the big three.
Even mentioned the VW bug - built by the Germans around WW11.

Lets talk about Toyota
EVERY early truck rusted - Their first two Mini Vans were mid engine and junk. Do you remember the name of their second mini-van?
Didn't they buy back many of their newest full size trucks because of engine problems?
3.0 engine have serious sludge issues.
Recently didn't they have more recalls than GM?

Lets talk about Honda
Again rust issues
Their first SUV was a rebadged IZUZI - Want to guess who ownes about 50% of that company? Not Honda
Their trucks today don't have frames. Can't tow equally to American built trucks.
Their first mini van had swinging doors and was seriously underpowered.
They also have tranny issues.
Poeple who buy Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans generally follow the service guidelines.

Lets talk about Nissan
Also a company with rust issues
Nissans were called Datsuns until 1986.
Most recently, 2004 when I worked there, EVERY Nissan vehicle had one or more recalls on them.
Bad brakes in Z's full size trucks and SUV's

No one company stands alone as building the best cars and trucks. They all have service problems. Every service department is larger than the sales floor for all brands.

American Auto Mfgs have been strapped with UAW labor contracts. Forced to pay people for not working etc. etc. Forced to settle strikes in order to continue production.

Who in the hell are the folks in Washington calling these folks on the carpet? They have managed to put this country into debt to the tune of over 10 TRILLION dollars.

It's great to see all this SXXX hitting the fan at one time. It's great to watch an exit pole of soon to be President OBAMA voters. Watch it, Utube how Obama got elected.

Anyone can twist anything around to find fault with something. The solution I guess is to set on your hands. Why in the hell does this country allow it's elected officials to be off work starting in November until after January with the issues this country has?

Jakes Dad

p.s. utube how obama got elected

p.s11 He'll be my President soon too just not yet!

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

You can't?
Japan (among others) does JUST THAT.
Perhaps a little taste of their own medicine might force them to FINALLY open up their markets to our vehicles.

dragonrage

Japanese people have a superiority complex. Many of them would not be willing to touch American cars. We've all got those few family members and friends that somehow have the idea that American cars all suck and Japanese cars all don't. Step that up an order or two of magnitude in Japan.

TheRival

If you noticed after the fact that i retracted my notions of the tariff idea so i am not going to begin to debate your statements.

wabmorgan

I don't agree with the Hummer and Explorer ruining GM and Ford. Gas was cheap and these(and others like them) were the vehicles that the public wanted..... They made a crap load of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ off of them.... only bad news was.... when the gas went up..... they were poorly position for a shift to smaller more fuel efficient cars.

The REAL problem with SUvs, Trucks is their poor efficiency.... If they were to find a way to make trucks, suvs more fuel efficient, I doubt the buying public would want smaller cars instead. They bougt the suvs and trucks for a reason and they certainly did not buy them for the bad MPG.

Gas is now cheap again.... and except for the fear(and probability) that high gas prices will return Truck and Suv sales would no doubt return.

Given the high gas prices, the BIG 3's poor position for a return to smaller more fuel efficient market, and the credit crunch= The Perfect Storm.

phirepower

iTrader: (2)

I was surprised the blunder from down under didnt make the list(GTO) as much as I like the car it was an enormous sales failure. Also how about the saturn EV-1, GM had a fully functional, reliable, and relatively quick electric car years before the term "hybrid" had even been thought up in automotive terms. Great cars, they buried all in the Arizona desert...