BTTM

iTrader: (1)

The statement that if the government didn't get involved there wouldn't be a GM right now is extreme. If the government hadn't gotten involved GM would still be around. They might be in bankruptcy but they'd still be around. Bankruptcy is not a bad thing. It's can be a good thing for a business if managed properly. Government involvement in any private sector business in a capitalistic society, that doesn't involve national security, is rarely good. Right now socialism may seem like a viable alternative, but once that door is opened it will be difficult if not impossible to close. You give politicians, democrat or republican, that kind of power and they will not relinquish it easily.....and it will not stop at the auto industry.

wabmorgan

It's not that simple....

Problem is... GM goes into bankruptcy... it won't emerge from bankruptcy.... GM will disappear becuase no one is going to buy a car from a company in bankruptcy.

People won't even buy small purchases from a company in bankruptcy.... rather lone a major purchase like a car.

IF GM goes under it could well pull others down with them due to the fact that they all use the same suppliers. Even Toyota has said that it doesn't want GM to go under because if GM fails they could cause Toyota major problems by driving suppliers out of business.

A collapse could not only be the end of the US auto industry but could turn a very serious recession into a depression that would last for years and cost trillions.

Btw.... the cost of doing nothing is a lot more than you may think it is... it has been estimate that a GM collapsible would cost taxpayers approximately $200 Billion.

Additionally... all the billions of tax dollars they have already put in this will simply disappear.... it will never be repaid.

What a lot of people don't understand is that if things weren't as bad as they are in the economy.... the government maybe would not need to step in..... all automakers have depressed sales at the moment.

Even Toyota and Nissan lost money. Do you think the Japanese government is going to allow them to go under???? I doubt it. They even been known to loan money to companies at low interest rates in order to secure a buyout.(Sony borrowed $1 Billion @ 1% from the Japanese government in order to finance a buyout.)

The one thing that the UAW and debit holders need to realize is that they need to make concessions to GM to avoid a bankruptcy.... a bankruptcy would be a disaster for all involved and perhaps others.

The only thing that has happen is that the government has stated they need to do more in order to secure more federal financing.

I understand the bailout outrage.... but to me... what they have done with the banks and AIG is worse.... much worse.

The amount in the auto bailouts only represents a small % of the trillions that have wnet into the banks and AIG.... btw get ready.... they are about to drop a lot more $ on the banks soon.

Blackened2k

iTrader: (4)

yea yea people wont buy cars from a bankrupt company. guess what? People won't buy cars from GM (Government Motors) as it stands now. so that argument is a wash.


worst. reason. ever. "Because we fucked up, we need to continue ******* up to make the previous **** ups less noticeable."

wabmorgan

Yeah.... but their not buying due to fear that GM will go under... not due to bailout loans... if GM files bankruptcy... sales will fall off the map.

And that is not the worst reason ever.... throwing in the towel would be the biggest mistake we could make at this point. If we were going to take the non interference route.... the time to have taken it was before any tax payer money was every spent.

By throwing in the towel now.... we are guaranteeing a complete loss of the funds already invested.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, and govt sitting on its hands and allowing the financial industry to look out for the welfare of the economy brought us to the clusterf$%k we're in now. I dont think the answer to all this is to create a socialist monster to fear. What make these governments something to be fearful of is the submission of the will of the citizens to its government. We have all been over reliant on a larger power to fix all our problems and protect our interests on both sides of this debate whether it be govt or wall street. I dont think these problems will be fixed to work for the American people until the average citizens start becoming more pro-active in govt and growing some teeth that government and business will fear.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

Could GM possibly sell Pontiac and Buick?

Joshiedoom

iTrader: (4)

I dont personally care if they go under and have to start over. Let them die and come back.

Least our cars value will go up after everyone wrecks them one at a time

wabmorgan

They might be able to sell Buick since Buicks are popular in China... but that considered... would they want to sell Buick????

davidadavila

i would not blame anybody but the gm, they made mistakes to make the gov jump in, if they would of dont **** right this would of not happened, i feel ok, i rather ut my hands on some old cars than any new ones anyway.....

BTTM

iTrader: (1)

I don't necessarily agree that nobody would buy a car from GM if it's in bankruptcy. United Airlines, the #2 airline at the time, was in bankruptcy for 4 years and people still flew United, even with all the other options out there. And Obama is saying that bankruptcy is still a viable option for GM....so they may find themselves in bankruptcy anyway!. Today it's being reported that Obama is being asked to "fire" the CEO's of banks, even though the bailout money was FORCED on some of them....so where does this all stop?

When do the American people realize that history is full of examples where government intervention only prolongs the problem. Even the Congressional Budget Office reported that doing nothing would have been better in the long run than intervention.

But it's mute to discuss what should have been done. We've given the politicians this power and they won't give it back. And later generations will suffer.

jimmy169

I think bankruptcy is still a possibility but only now that the government has helped the suppliers out and all of the other's. Back then had they gone bankrupt it would have wreaked havoc on the economy, so many more people out of a job and suppliers taken down with it, I think all 3 wouldn't have been able to afford to stay afloat if GM went under. Even though Ford didn't touch the money, I think it was only because GM stayed afloat keeping ford's suppliers afloat as well.


It seems the argument was that under normal economic conditions they would let GM go under, but at the time, and even though things seem to have eased up, even now these are not normal economic conditions. For instance how are even the healthy airline's doing now? The governments is doing all it can to prevent another ripple effect of job losses, it's easy for us to say the hell with them and the government because we're only looking after #1 not realizing the effects so many job losses can have on our jobs and our future, but they're job is to look after all of us from what we may not fully understand. During the great depression a lot of people wanted those companies to go down and said the hell with them not realizing the ripple effect, and look what that got them. People say government help is so bad but look what we had without it, we had the great depression. Imagine how many people would have run for the banks if they weren't assured by the FDIC. Japan is another example and their great recession.

Jon5212

iTrader: (2)

It seems you are the most liberal person and and you wanted change. It also appears you support a Socialist government, in that cause I do not consider you an American. I don't like it because the government has lied as I asked my representative in the house to vote NO for the original bailouts, NO ONE deserves a bailout, any other small business if they fail... they FAIL. And maybe thats what this country needs... is to fail and start from scratch. As our dollar is pretty much worthless in reality, you can't just run off paper bills with nothing to back it with.

PopaPork

iTrader: (4)

An here we go, name calling UnAmericans.

Irunelevens

If you're not hyper-conservative, you aren't an American... you didn't know that? There was no "easy" way to do what is being done, and I doubt anyone here could come up with a feasible and realistic alternative. There's no good roads out of this one.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

Yeah Sean Hannity and Boss Limbaugh post on here every now and then. Theyre good for some laughs lol

Jon5212

iTrader: (2)

^^^ It is no longer about conservative or liberal... both sides are equally responsible for this mess... my opinion to the simplest solution is to start from scratch, we have dug a hole far too deep to pull out of it.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

I dont think their market share value is as important in the selling process. In theory (I know everyone hates big govt blah blah)the govt could just seize Pontiac and Buick from GM as long as they haven't filed for chapter 11 and sell them to the highest bidder as they do with the banks since GM is financing them. Id rather see that than allowing them to just go outta business for good.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

So go back to horse and buggy? Do we get to pull George Washington out of his tomb and make him president? fun!!

wabmorgan

I agree... but I was saying... I wonder IF GM should sell Buick considering how popular they are in China. Seems GM might want to hold on to Buick for that consideration alone.

Of course if push came to shove... I'd sell Buick if I were in their shoes.

wabmorgan

Yes... but an airline ticket is a short term lost cost item... not a major investment like a car. I still think bankruptcy for GM means BUST, done, gone.

The only way I see this working is IF the UAW and debit holders give concession to GM outside of bankruptcy. Whatever is done needs to be done outside the court system simply because of the stigma that goes with the term bankruptcy.