Pontiac's Nail in the Coffin
04-02-2009, 11:43 AM
#61
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Holy **** dude. This is a shitty situation. Gm needs to back the **** out and file chapter 11 now. Obama already said they would back GM warranties. Thats all they should need to hear. Back the **** out, axe the UAW and start again. Or Gm should just say "**** you, we are doing this our way" and close up shop. Its better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Dont fall into this trap GM. Do it your way or fold up. ****'em.
Dont fall into this trap GM. Do it your way or fold up. ****'em.
Damn Right!! Fight those damn unions and do it your way! Just ask CAT and 3M. Theyre doing it their way to! What could possibly go wrong with that? maybe this?
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-03-31-voa25.cfm
God bless our country of racists lol!
04-02-2009, 01:00 PM
#66
So I'm pretty surr gm hasn't been playing in a fair court since the jaw appeared and our
Government set bullshit standards for us while laying out the welcome mat for japan.
So no, gm haven't been living pn their feet for a long time now
P.s. Typing on a blackberry storm is not as easy
As it looks on tv.
04-02-2009, 01:08 PM
#67
So I'm pretty surr gm hasn't been playing in a fair court since the jaw appeared and our
Government set bullshit standards for us while laying out the welcome mat for japan.
So no, gm haven't been living pn their feet for a long time now
P.s. Typing on a blackberry storm is not as easy
As it looks on tv.
04-02-2009, 02:00 PM
#68
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I'm pretty sure that gm didn't force the uaw on themselves. I'm also pretty sure gm didn't have any problems until the uaw was forced on them and when japan found they didn't have to play by these rules they started building more and more cars here.
So I'm pretty surr gm hasn't been playing in a fair court since the jaw appeared and our
Government set bullshit standards for us while laying out the welcome mat for japan.
So no, gm haven't been living pn their feet for a long time now
P.s. Typing on a blackberry storm is not as easy
As it looks on tv.
So I'm pretty surr gm hasn't been playing in a fair court since the jaw appeared and our
Government set bullshit standards for us while laying out the welcome mat for japan.
So no, gm haven't been living pn their feet for a long time now
P.s. Typing on a blackberry storm is not as easy
As it looks on tv.
You dont have any clue who the United Auto Workers are do you? Research the "Great Sit-down Strike of 1936" and "Battle of Overpass". See a union is a group of workers who join together to sit an employer down and sign a contract (2 sided bargaining not just union side)assuring fair wages, benefits, proper saftey.ect. In the old days they didnt have legality, so they resorted to rioting and beating peoples brains out (rearch Jimmy Hoffa and Walter Reuther) until govt stepped in and made it manditory for companies to bargain with unions as an alternitive to the violence that came prior. Japan companies that are union are required to obey the law same as american companies and comply much better due to the fact japan also has many unions in its foriegn auto industry. Its businesses call, they can either learn to co-exist or have rioting and bloodshed on their hands once more. Theres no such thing as union busting, only peace or violence Last edited by wannabess00; 04-02-2009 at 02:08 PM.
04-02-2009, 02:32 PM
#69
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GM would not be here today if the government didn't step in month's ago. Hell maybe all 3 wouldn't have been here today, with the supply chain GM would have taken down with it's demise, and the worker's out of a job that would sank the economy to who knows what levels, even Toyota didn't want GM to go under at the time.
What is with all this **** talking towards the one's who "bailed" GM out, if you don't like it close your eye's and pretend GM doesn't exist anymore, because that's how it would be if the big bad liberal government didn't step in, yeah Reagan said it best, keep telling yourself that.
What is with all this **** talking towards the one's who "bailed" GM out, if you don't like it close your eye's and pretend GM doesn't exist anymore, because that's how it would be if the big bad liberal government didn't step in, yeah Reagan said it best, keep telling yourself that.
GM has no problem other than labor costs, a huge amount of which are associated with people who NO LONGER EVEN WORK.
Profit = revenue - expenses.
GM sells more cars than Toyota AND generates more revenue than Toyota. Yet their profits are smaller. What does that tell you?
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
2007 Profit/Loss GM vs. Toyota:
GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles
GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)
Their expenses are too high. Out of control LABOR costs, thanks to heavy handed abuse from the left, are what have killed GM in North America. Anyone who thinks that in some amazing coincidence 3 of the worst CEOs ever happened to be in charge of 3 huge auto firms at the same time, and in an even more amazing coincidence they were the 3 AMERICAN firms, is delusional.
GM and Ford both did a great job positioning themselves to survive and break through in the future. Unfortunately almost no one saw the economic meltdown coming. Ford was lucky in that they are smaller and were already over the hump. GM however was on pace to break free of a lot of their costs around 2011-2012. They just needed to survive until then, but the economic meltdown screwed them.
Sorry, but leftists destroyed GM over the years.
The talking points about "not making cars people want to buy" are just that, dumb talking points.
Let's stick to the FACTS and the hard numbers.
04-02-2009, 03:05 PM
#70
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GM would not have needed a bailout if leftists hadn't controlled government for 40+ years favoring unions and screwing employers every step of the way.
GM has no problem other than labor costs, a huge amount of which are associated with people who NO LONGER EVEN WORK.
Profit = revenue - expenses.
GM sells more cars than Toyota AND generates more revenue than Toyota. Yet their profits are smaller. What does that tell you?
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
2007 Profit/Loss GM vs. Toyota:
GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles
GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)
Their expenses are too high. Out of control LABOR costs, thanks to heavy handed abuse from the left, are what have killed GM in North America. Anyone who thinks that in some amazing coincidence 3 of the worst CEOs ever happened to be in charge of 3 huge auto firms at the same time, and in an even more amazing coincidence they were the 3 AMERICAN firms, is delusional.
GM and Ford both did a great job positioning themselves to survive and break through in the future. Unfortunately almost no one saw the economic meltdown coming. Ford was lucky in that they are smaller and were already over the hump. GM however was on pace to break free of a lot of their costs around 2011-2012. They just needed to survive until then, but the economic meltdown screwed them.
Sorry, but leftists destroyed GM over the years.
The talking points about "not making cars people want to buy" are just that, dumb talking points.
Let's stick to the FACTS and the hard numbers.
GM has no problem other than labor costs, a huge amount of which are associated with people who NO LONGER EVEN WORK.
Profit = revenue - expenses.
GM sells more cars than Toyota AND generates more revenue than Toyota. Yet their profits are smaller. What does that tell you?
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
2007 Profit/Loss GM vs. Toyota:
GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles
GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)
Their expenses are too high. Out of control LABOR costs, thanks to heavy handed abuse from the left, are what have killed GM in North America. Anyone who thinks that in some amazing coincidence 3 of the worst CEOs ever happened to be in charge of 3 huge auto firms at the same time, and in an even more amazing coincidence they were the 3 AMERICAN firms, is delusional.
GM and Ford both did a great job positioning themselves to survive and break through in the future. Unfortunately almost no one saw the economic meltdown coming. Ford was lucky in that they are smaller and were already over the hump. GM however was on pace to break free of a lot of their costs around 2011-2012. They just needed to survive until then, but the economic meltdown screwed them.
Sorry, but leftists destroyed GM over the years.
The talking points about "not making cars people want to buy" are just that, dumb talking points.
Let's stick to the FACTS and the hard numbers.
Leftists...ok, if we're talking Dem's vs republicans, why is it that Clinton had to pull us out of a recession and clean up a...i believe it was the republicans mess who were incharge before him correct me if I'm wrong. Things were improving, our defecit was shrinking, Clinton left with a surplus, you tell me how GM was doing and how the entire economy was doing, then along came another republican. Now AGAIN who's having to clean up their mess. So who's (consistantly) destroying our economy, leftists or the right?
I think the main reason GM was falling behind was because of reliability of their past products vs toyota or honda, just as mitsu has a bad reliability rep. (not all japanese cars are considered so reliable) so did GM. Their cars are very reliable now it seems but I think their past rep. is what brought them down slowly compared to toyota or honda, that is what has always been on the consumer's mind, reliability and gas economy too as gas price's went up over the years, and GM seemed to put all their egg's into the SUV basket or trucks or big v8's because they could load those cars up and charge premium, they could charge so much more for any additional luxury items, that's where their bread and butter was. That may have worked at the time but was a mistake looking back from now.
Last edited by jimmy169; 04-02-2009 at 03:11 PM.
04-02-2009, 03:10 PM
#71
TECH Senior Member
and a leftist does not have to be dems vs republicans ... bush was republican and look at how liberal/left he was ... fact is, as stated, GM's expenses are too high, the unions (past and present) are leaching off of GM and need to be eliminated
04-02-2009, 03:16 PM
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and his people also caused the dot com bubble burst (which was inevitable, but when Reno tried to break up Microsoft, it had a ripple effect causing huge economic turndown)
and a leftist does not have to be dems vs republicans ... bush was republican and look at how liberal/left he was ... fact is, as stated, GM's expenses are too high, the unions (past and present) are leaching off of GM and need to be eliminated
and a leftist does not have to be dems vs republicans ... bush was republican and look at how liberal/left he was ... fact is, as stated, GM's expenses are too high, the unions (past and present) are leaching off of GM and need to be eliminated
04-02-2009, 03:33 PM
#73
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The way he said it was pretty apparent that he was implying that imports don't make it to 200k. When you claim to look at used cars all the time, and go to junkyards, and you still "never see any imports with 200k miles," you are either lying, or you weren't paying attention. They are EVERYWHERE. And you can't blame timing belt failure on the car unless it went out with 40k miles. It's a maintenance item. I blew a timing belt on my GS-R (interference engine) and did no damage.
I have to disagree with you though about the "everywhere" comment. I, too, have perused many a junkyard and used car lot, and while I see tons and tons of imports with 150k-180k, I almost never see them with 200k+. I also don't hear stories of them with the kind of frequency that I do with domestic vehicles. But it's like I mentioned in another post a few months ago...I don't think that this phenomenon is because domestics last longer, it's because they are so much cheaper to fix.
04-02-2009, 05:20 PM
#74
GM would not have needed a bailout if leftists hadn't controlled government for 40+ years favoring unions and screwing employers every step of the way.
GM has no problem other than labor costs, a huge amount of which are associated with people who NO LONGER EVEN WORK.
Profit = revenue - expenses.
GM sells more cars than Toyota AND generates more revenue than Toyota. Yet their profits are smaller. What does that tell you?
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
2007 Profit/Loss GM vs. Toyota:
GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles
GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)
Their expenses are too high. Out of control LABOR costs, thanks to heavy handed abuse from the left, are what have killed GM in North America. Anyone who thinks that in some amazing coincidence 3 of the worst CEOs ever happened to be in charge of 3 huge auto firms at the same time, and in an even more amazing coincidence they were the 3 AMERICAN firms, is delusional.
GM and Ford both did a great job positioning themselves to survive and break through in the future. Unfortunately almost no one saw the economic meltdown coming. Ford was lucky in that they are smaller and were already over the hump. GM however was on pace to break free of a lot of their costs around 2011-2012. They just needed to survive until then, but the economic meltdown screwed them.
Sorry, but leftists destroyed GM over the years.
The talking points about "not making cars people want to buy" are just that, dumb talking points.
Let's stick to the FACTS and the hard numbers.
GM has no problem other than labor costs, a huge amount of which are associated with people who NO LONGER EVEN WORK.
Profit = revenue - expenses.
GM sells more cars than Toyota AND generates more revenue than Toyota. Yet their profits are smaller. What does that tell you?
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
2007 Profit/Loss GM vs. Toyota:
GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles
GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)
Their expenses are too high. Out of control LABOR costs, thanks to heavy handed abuse from the left, are what have killed GM in North America. Anyone who thinks that in some amazing coincidence 3 of the worst CEOs ever happened to be in charge of 3 huge auto firms at the same time, and in an even more amazing coincidence they were the 3 AMERICAN firms, is delusional.
GM and Ford both did a great job positioning themselves to survive and break through in the future. Unfortunately almost no one saw the economic meltdown coming. Ford was lucky in that they are smaller and were already over the hump. GM however was on pace to break free of a lot of their costs around 2011-2012. They just needed to survive until then, but the economic meltdown screwed them.
Sorry, but leftists destroyed GM over the years.
The talking points about "not making cars people want to buy" are just that, dumb talking points.
Let's stick to the FACTS and the hard numbers.
These are very good points that many anti GM and Foreign vehicle supporters seem to ignore. GM is the largest Automotive Manufacturer in the world, or second depending on where they are at relative to Toyota at this time. If they were really as bad as they claim they are, they would have been out of business years ago. Go compare a 10 year old GM to a Chrysler or Mitsubishi product as an example. And recent advances in their product line are proof to their viability going forward. Getting rid of commitments made to the Unions are a good start to continuing on the road. Besides they still employ More "Americans" then all the Foreign manufacturers combined.
04-02-2009, 05:26 PM
#75
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The other is trying to split 20% marketshare between eight brands and expecting to have the resources to adequately support them all. As marketshare slid it's been obvious for nearly twenty years that GM is spread far too thin over too many brands and that the customer base to support it all was steadily eroding.
Ultimately it's GM that destroyed GM, not anyone or anything else. At the course they've been for the past two decades what's happening now was inevitable.
04-02-2009, 06:42 PM
#76
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GM's marketshare degredation bears that out, it's a valid talking point and ultimately it's one of a few core issues the company never addressed. The company has always been surrounded by bad news, negative reviews and a negative perception since the 1970s and it's well deserved. A good car here and a decent effort there is not going to change that.
The other is trying to split 20% marketshare between eight brands and expecting to have the resources to adequately support them all. As marketshare slid it's been obvious for nearly twenty years that GM is spread far too thin over too many brands and that the customer base to support it all was steadily eroding.
Ultimately it's GM that destroyed GM, not anyone or anything else. At the course they've been for the past two decades what's happening now was inevitable.
The other is trying to split 20% marketshare between eight brands and expecting to have the resources to adequately support them all. As marketshare slid it's been obvious for nearly twenty years that GM is spread far too thin over too many brands and that the customer base to support it all was steadily eroding.
Ultimately it's GM that destroyed GM, not anyone or anything else. At the course they've been for the past two decades what's happening now was inevitable.
04-02-2009, 08:56 PM
#79
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GM would not have needed a bailout if leftists hadn't controlled government for 40+ years favoring unions and screwing employers every step of the way.
GM has no problem other than labor costs, a huge amount of which are associated with people who NO LONGER EVEN WORK.
Profit = revenue - expenses.
GM sells more cars than Toyota AND generates more revenue than Toyota. Yet their profits are smaller. What does that tell you?
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
2007 Profit/Loss GM vs. Toyota:
GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles
GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)
Their expenses are too high. Out of control LABOR costs, thanks to heavy handed abuse from the left, are what have killed GM in North America. Anyone who thinks that in some amazing coincidence 3 of the worst CEOs ever happened to be in charge of 3 huge auto firms at the same time, and in an even more amazing coincidence they were the 3 AMERICAN firms, is delusional.
GM and Ford both did a great job positioning themselves to survive and break through in the future. Unfortunately almost no one saw the economic meltdown coming. Ford was lucky in that they are smaller and were already over the hump. GM however was on pace to break free of a lot of their costs around 2011-2012. They just needed to survive until then, but the economic meltdown screwed them.
Sorry, but leftists destroyed GM over the years.
The talking points about "not making cars people want to buy" are just that, dumb talking points.
Let's stick to the FACTS and the hard numbers.
GM has no problem other than labor costs, a huge amount of which are associated with people who NO LONGER EVEN WORK.
Profit = revenue - expenses.
GM sells more cars than Toyota AND generates more revenue than Toyota. Yet their profits are smaller. What does that tell you?
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
2007 Profit/Loss GM vs. Toyota:
GM sales in 2007: 9,370,000 vehicles
Toyota sales in 2007: 9,366,418 vehicles
GM profit/loss in 2007: -$38,730,000,000 (-$4,055 per car)
Toyota profit in 2007: +$17,146,000,000 (+$1,874 per car)
Their expenses are too high. Out of control LABOR costs, thanks to heavy handed abuse from the left, are what have killed GM in North America. Anyone who thinks that in some amazing coincidence 3 of the worst CEOs ever happened to be in charge of 3 huge auto firms at the same time, and in an even more amazing coincidence they were the 3 AMERICAN firms, is delusional.
GM and Ford both did a great job positioning themselves to survive and break through in the future. Unfortunately almost no one saw the economic meltdown coming. Ford was lucky in that they are smaller and were already over the hump. GM however was on pace to break free of a lot of their costs around 2011-2012. They just needed to survive until then, but the economic meltdown screwed them.
Sorry, but leftists destroyed GM over the years.
The talking points about "not making cars people want to buy" are just that, dumb talking points.
Let's stick to the FACTS and the hard numbers.
Yeah damn right!!!! Toyota totally stomps those b#$tards . They dont need no stinking unions eating away their profit!!!!............................... Oh wait did you say Toyota? Oh they actually are UAW built cars here in the states 
. And not only do they have better pay and benefits for workers at Toyota..but they also have daycare for the kids
04-02-2009, 09:07 PM
#80
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You got my immature back up to help ya lol! I with the UAW 4th region. I get to deal with the union bashing day in day out and its hugely comical and only about 5% have any clue what they are talking about. You're hitting the nail on the head. GM builds great products, but they turn out too often be to great i.e. competing in markets in which they have little understanding of the market. The G8 was our biggest hope that we could see it become successful and get it brought here to North America and make it profitable but they just cant sell many and we cant figure out why. Hopefully we'll see good deals cut from our leadership with GM but it appears too little to late.