GM VP Confirms Camaro Z/28
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Not really. The new 5.0's are getting in the 12.60's/12.50's at 114/115 alot by owner drivers now, check the Mustang boards. A guy even ran a A6 3:31 to a 12.56 if I recall, very impressive. It takes some good driving and a few bolt-ons for a new SS to run those times. I've been a GM guy all my life, but the new 5.0 is a quicker, better handling, not to mention overall better car then the new Camaro.
You can't look at what guys on this board or some mustang board are runnig with their cars and call it reliable data. Now on the other hand, if you are looking to buy the car in question and want to see what it can do in capable hands, that's a different story. But for a stock-for-stock comparison we have to look at official testing on a level playing field.
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Gotta give credit where credit is due.
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Concept car = 2006
Approved for production = 2007
Dealer lots = 2009
The concept car was NEVER originally planned for production but the major hit it become made them re consider, so no it did not take that long for it to come out. So yeah, 2014 seems like a accurate release for the next Camaro more so since they are probably already working on the platform as we speak.
I personally see the car coming out in 2014 as a 2015 model. Giving the 5th gen a 5 year run, or at least having 2014 as a refresh like what Ford did with the Mustang for 2010/11.
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No one can know the future...we predict the future based on the past. Look at Ford's past vs. GM in this area. Ford has a long way to go to prove it can hang in the long run.
Right now, the new Mustang runs side by side with the new Camaro, despite being significantly lighter and down ONLY 15hp. Theoretically shaving 200lbs off the Camaro would make it quite a bit faster than the GT - with ONLY 15hp more. This tells us that GT will need 30-40hp extra to run even with the Camaro given the same weight. Combine this with the likelihood of the fully loaded Alpha SS being about 3600lbs, which is actually LIGHTER than the current fully loaded GT, and even if NOTHING is changed with either engine, the Camaro becomes a near runaway winner.
Basically what i'm saying is that Ford will have to do ALOT to the current 5.0 to be able to stay ahead of the Camaro assuming GM stays on course and moves it to the Alpha platform.
Also remember that this alpha Camaro will likely carry the Gen V (DI, VVT) LS (or whatever they designate the motor).
So no, i'm certainly not presenting this all as fact, but it's a damn good argument if you ask me.
Right now, the new Mustang runs side by side with the new Camaro, despite being significantly lighter and down ONLY 15hp. Theoretically shaving 200lbs off the Camaro would make it quite a bit faster than the GT - with ONLY 15hp more. This tells us that GT will need 30-40hp extra to run even with the Camaro given the same weight. Combine this with the likelihood of the fully loaded Alpha SS being about 3600lbs, which is actually LIGHTER than the current fully loaded GT, and even if NOTHING is changed with either engine, the Camaro becomes a near runaway winner.
Basically what i'm saying is that Ford will have to do ALOT to the current 5.0 to be able to stay ahead of the Camaro assuming GM stays on course and moves it to the Alpha platform.
Also remember that this alpha Camaro will likely carry the Gen V (DI, VVT) LS (or whatever they designate the motor).
So no, i'm certainly not presenting this all as fact, but it's a damn good argument if you ask me.
You act like the Mustang wont be redesigned for 2014.
5.0 will likely get DI before Gen V comes about
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Not really. The new 5.0's are getting in the 12.60's/12.50's at 114/115 alot by owner drivers now, check the Mustang boards. A guy even ran a A6 3:31 to a 12.56 if I recall, very impressive. It takes some good driving and a few bolt-ons for a new SS to run those times. I've been a GM guy all my life, but the new 5.0 is a quicker, better handling, not to mention overall better car then the new Camaro.
STOCK
"official" list-
1. nhra stocker - 12.58 @ 110.30 mph, (LS3, M6)
2. 2quick - 12.61 @ 111.60 mph, (LS3, M6)
3. blufin - 12.70 @ 111.07 mph, (LS3, M6)
4. Monte - 12.77 @ 110.98 mph, (LS3, M6)
5. b20 - 12.81 @ 108.73 mph, (LS3, M6)
6. 8secpumpgasdad - 12.86 @ 108.70 mph, (L99, A6)
7. speedy6963 - 12.87 @ 109.08, (LS3, M6)
8. 8ty8ls1 - 12.97 @ 107.61 mph, (L99, A6)
9. 1stGM - 12.98 @ 107. 34 mph, (L99, A6)
10. SSmokey - 13.04 @ 110.80 mph, (LS3, M6)
"Unofficial" list- inc. corrected times and red light runs
1. nhra stocker - 12.43 @ 112.02, (LS3, M6), (corrected, DA + 1395 ft.)
2. 2quick - 12.61 @ 111.60 mph, (LS3, M6)
3. 8secpumpgasdad - 12.67 @ 110.36 mph, (L99, A6), (Corrected, DA +1371 ft.)
4. blufin - 12.68 @ 111.04 mph, (LS3, M6)
5. Monte - 12.77 @ 110.98 mph, (LS3, M6)
6. b20 - 12.81 @ 108.73 mph, (LS3, M6)
7. DarricSS - 12.84 @ 110. 41 mph (LS3, M6) - (corrected, DA + 3331 ft.)
8. Pave1 - 12.86 @ 107.70 mph, (L99, A6)
9. speedy6963 - 12.87 @ 109.08, (LS3, M6)
10. 8ty8 ls1 - 12.90 @ 107.90 mph, (L99, A6), (DA -822)
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^^^ yeah i've been reading up on GM sales lately and the camaro has been outselling the mustang month after month.
i was reading something about the Z28 having upwards of 500 horsepower?
if thats not the case then it had to have been a special edition or something
i was reading something about the Z28 having upwards of 500 horsepower?
if thats not the case then it had to have been a special edition or something
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Since you care, you might want to know that the Camaro is now consistently outselling the mustang across the board. Again, not a factor to me.
The 5.0 won't be getting DI until at least the next platform redesign, which should be AROUND the time that the Alpha Camaro debuts. More than likely, we will be seeing the current pattern from here on out...GM releases a new Camaro every 5 years, and Ford releases a new Mustang one year after each new Camaro release. Ford get's the advantage there, being the last one out, BUT that's not exactly new...as Ford had 8 years with no Camaro and STILL couldn't catch the 4th gen until just this year.
Sorry...I have as much respect for the new Mustang as anyone else out there, but you can't say with certainty that Ford will hold this lead for any length of time. You can bet the Camaro will carry a few more ponies and a new suspension option next year, and as was mentioned before, Ford really doesn't do that kinda thing.
The next iteration of each car though will be VERY interesting. Both manufacturers know full well what their respective products are going to have to offer next time around...only one can possibly deliver on all fronts. We know GM can win the power war easily...but can it make a platform comparable to what Ford will offer with the next stang? And we expect Ford to build on it's already stellar (lightweight) platform for the next iteration of the mustang, but will it have an answer for the next Camaro's powerplant? It's going to have to because most of GM's focus on this next car will be in the body and suspension. Ford will need to carry this new 5.0 from one-hit-wonder (think Terminator Cobra) to legend status.
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It does not take bolt-ons to get those times out of the Camaro:
STOCK
"official" list-
1. nhra stocker - 12.58 @ 110.30 mph, (LS3, M6)
2. 2quick - 12.61 @ 111.60 mph, (LS3, M6)
3. blufin - 12.70 @ 111.07 mph, (LS3, M6)
4. Monte - 12.77 @ 110.98 mph, (LS3, M6)
5. b20 - 12.81 @ 108.73 mph, (LS3, M6)
6. 8secpumpgasdad - 12.86 @ 108.70 mph, (L99, A6)
7. speedy6963 - 12.87 @ 109.08, (LS3, M6)
8. 8ty8ls1 - 12.97 @ 107.61 mph, (L99, A6)
9. 1stGM - 12.98 @ 107. 34 mph, (L99, A6)
10. SSmokey - 13.04 @ 110.80 mph, (LS3, M6)
"Unofficial" list- inc. corrected times and red light runs
1. nhra stocker - 12.43 @ 112.02, (LS3, M6), (corrected, DA + 1395 ft.)
2. 2quick - 12.61 @ 111.60 mph, (LS3, M6)
3. 8secpumpgasdad - 12.67 @ 110.36 mph, (L99, A6), (Corrected, DA +1371 ft.)
4. blufin - 12.68 @ 111.04 mph, (LS3, M6)
5. Monte - 12.77 @ 110.98 mph, (LS3, M6)
6. b20 - 12.81 @ 108.73 mph, (LS3, M6)
7. DarricSS - 12.84 @ 110. 41 mph (LS3, M6) - (corrected, DA + 3331 ft.)
8. Pave1 - 12.86 @ 107.70 mph, (L99, A6)
9. speedy6963 - 12.87 @ 109.08, (LS3, M6)
10. 8ty8 ls1 - 12.90 @ 107.90 mph, (L99, A6), (DA -822)
STOCK
"official" list-
1. nhra stocker - 12.58 @ 110.30 mph, (LS3, M6)
2. 2quick - 12.61 @ 111.60 mph, (LS3, M6)
3. blufin - 12.70 @ 111.07 mph, (LS3, M6)
4. Monte - 12.77 @ 110.98 mph, (LS3, M6)
5. b20 - 12.81 @ 108.73 mph, (LS3, M6)
6. 8secpumpgasdad - 12.86 @ 108.70 mph, (L99, A6)
7. speedy6963 - 12.87 @ 109.08, (LS3, M6)
8. 8ty8ls1 - 12.97 @ 107.61 mph, (L99, A6)
9. 1stGM - 12.98 @ 107. 34 mph, (L99, A6)
10. SSmokey - 13.04 @ 110.80 mph, (LS3, M6)
"Unofficial" list- inc. corrected times and red light runs
1. nhra stocker - 12.43 @ 112.02, (LS3, M6), (corrected, DA + 1395 ft.)
2. 2quick - 12.61 @ 111.60 mph, (LS3, M6)
3. 8secpumpgasdad - 12.67 @ 110.36 mph, (L99, A6), (Corrected, DA +1371 ft.)
4. blufin - 12.68 @ 111.04 mph, (LS3, M6)
5. Monte - 12.77 @ 110.98 mph, (LS3, M6)
6. b20 - 12.81 @ 108.73 mph, (LS3, M6)
7. DarricSS - 12.84 @ 110. 41 mph (LS3, M6) - (corrected, DA + 3331 ft.)
8. Pave1 - 12.86 @ 107.70 mph, (L99, A6)
9. speedy6963 - 12.87 @ 109.08, (LS3, M6)
10. 8ty8 ls1 - 12.90 @ 107.90 mph, (L99, A6), (DA -822)
#31
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Difference is that is the cream of the crop for Camaros. And only 9 broke out of the 13's and most can't get out of the 13's. 90% of the new 5.0's will be at, or in most cases better then those times. Even the crappy magazine drivers are getting 12.6/7 out of the 5.0. And private 5.0 owners are running 12.4/5 with 50 miles on the cars already. Only one stock SS has run better then 12.60, about 15 5.0's have already. Sorry to say, but the 5.0 is a quicker car stock for stock. I'll admit it.
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Difference is that is the cream of the crop for Camaros. And only 9 broke out of the 13's and most can't get out of the 13's. 90% of the new 5.0's will be at, or in most cases better then those times. Even the crappy magazine drivers are getting 12.6/7 out of the 5.0. And private 5.0 owners are running 12.4/5 with 50 miles on the cars already. Only one stock SS has run better then 12.60, about 15 5.0's have already. Sorry to say, but the 5.0 is a quicker car stock for stock. I'll admit it.
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Every "stock" car will run a different time, depends on the driver, weather, type of track, among MANY other things. So really sitting here making argument over track times its just dumb because everyone will run something different.
Honestly, I would hope a 2011 5.0 having that new of a motor and that more advanced with technology would be a better performer then the LS1 which came out in what? 1997? Stock for stock anyways. But still like I said, get a newb driver in the 5.0 and a skilled driver in the LS1...who will have the better chance? Now take those 2 drivers and switch them around....now who has the edge? What's the point in comparing stock cars anyways?
Honestly, I would hope a 2011 5.0 having that new of a motor and that more advanced with technology would be a better performer then the LS1 which came out in what? 1997? Stock for stock anyways. But still like I said, get a newb driver in the 5.0 and a skilled driver in the LS1...who will have the better chance? Now take those 2 drivers and switch them around....now who has the edge? What's the point in comparing stock cars anyways?
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Have you seen any 5.0's running 12's at the track? Not what you read on the internet or seen in these ready made shop car video's. The 5.0 will not run 12's all the time and at every track. It is an improvement over the 4.6 but its not all that. I saw a 2011 5.0 run 14's, of course the guy didnt know what he was doing but it will take skill and a good track prep.
My point is the 5.0 is an overall quicker car then a 5th gen. Anyone who thinks the opposite is just not in the know, or too biased towards GM. I'm a GM guy, but I will give credit where credit is due.
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Three yesterday as a matter of fact. One ran a best of 12.8, the other a 12.6. One had a tune, cat-back and DR's and ran a 12.2. All trapped over 113 and it was almost 85 out.
My point is the 5.0 is an overall quicker car then a 5th gen. Anyone who thinks the opposite is just not in the know, or too biased towards GM. I'm a GM guy, but I will give credit where credit is due.
My point is the 5.0 is an overall quicker car then a 5th gen. Anyone who thinks the opposite is just not in the know, or too biased towards GM. I'm a GM guy, but I will give credit where credit is due.
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They will call it the Z28 for marketing reasons, not historical. Of course everyone on here knows the history of the Z28 as well as it's place in Camaro Muscle hierarchy, but the average joe who is the target age of around 35-45 grew up with 3rd gens.
It works the same way with value as 3rd gens are starting to rise because guys can now afford the car they always wanted in high school. aka a Z28.
While I do think ZL1 would be a much cooler name, only small percentage of the market has even heard of that before. It's done plain and simple to sell cars, and they sure as hell weren't going to call it an IROC.
It works the same way with value as 3rd gens are starting to rise because guys can now afford the car they always wanted in high school. aka a Z28.
While I do think ZL1 would be a much cooler name, only small percentage of the market has even heard of that before. It's done plain and simple to sell cars, and they sure as hell weren't going to call it an IROC.
The Alpha Camaro will be one hell of an animal. I can see GM using it as a fresh start. No major updates for the 5th gen, with the Alpha getting the first GEN V, a new look in and out, and a Z28, maybe a ZL1 in years to follow. 2014 cant get here fast enough.
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Not many people have heard of ZR1 until now. I go to car shows with people (adults as well as early 20s guys like myself) and only the GM lovers point out a C4ZR1 for what it is. I can see them bringing the ZL1 moniker back for those with money and the love of Camaros. It could/should be a "world beater" type attitude with a GEN V LS9 equivilent.
The Alpha Camaro will be one hell of an animal. I can see GM using it as a fresh start. No major updates for the 5th gen, with the Alpha getting the first GEN V, a new look in and out, and a Z28, maybe a ZL1 in years to follow. 2014 cant get here fast enough.
The Alpha Camaro will be one hell of an animal. I can see GM using it as a fresh start. No major updates for the 5th gen, with the Alpha getting the first GEN V, a new look in and out, and a Z28, maybe a ZL1 in years to follow. 2014 cant get here fast enough.