Irunelevens

I'd say equal drivers/conditions, the new 5.0 should beat an LS3 Camaro. It's very similar to the Mach 1/LS1 F-body comparison, except the trap speeds are closer.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

In the grand scheme of things, even if the mustang wins 8 out of 10 races by a 10th, it's still an even match, or "driver's race" as we call it. All the Mustang driver would have to do is hesitate on a shift, or the Camaro driver could pull off a very slightly faster 1-2 shift, and the outcome would be the opposite. So while the majority of tests have the Mustang winning by a ballhair, it's still considered a driver's race because it's just too close. GM could stop offering a spare tire with the SS and that would make it faster than the Mustang. It's that close.

assasinator

woo hoo. the camaro wins with 6300 deliveries..... oh 6300 is still losing when it comes to making money. mustang sales just suck. plain suck.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

I don't know that either company plans to really make money off of these cars. They are both built and sold as a kind of marketing tool that commands attention and interest in their respective brands. These cars are kinda like the sacrificial team members...their individual sales performances are not great, but just having them "out on the field" brings people to the game so to speak, and allows the company to profit on sales of their other, more utilitarian vehicles.

As long as both cars are selling reasonably well, and as long as public opinion is overwhelmingly positive on both cars (and i'd say it definitely is), these vehicles are considered a success.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Agreed.

Reputations are made mostly on the street. In a street fight, that 1 tenth difference won't be noticeable.

I can't understand how anyone can say that either car is a clear cut/easy winner. It's just too close.

ThisBlood147

Recent sales figures for both automakers have sucked across their entire lineup. It's not just the ponies that are suffering. People just aren't buying very much right now. Everybody's too busy anticipating the next recession that we keep seeing advertised in the media.

My guess is that once the stigma of doom and gloom start to lift again you're going to see a surge in Mustang and Camaro sales. I work with about 8 or 9 guys that are heavily eyeballing these two cars, but are waiting to see how their 401K's do in the next year or so before pulling the trigger.

88blackgt

eh across the board with average driver the notch would win a majority of the time, and the fastest times the notch was several tenths quicker with a good amount hitting 13s.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Without some sort of test data to back up either side, this particular argument is going nowhere. You're talking about two cars that niether company gave a **** about at the time...both manufacturers were hard at work on the next gen cars.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I disagree. The lightest F-bodies with 350s were comparably as fast. The issue is, many of the F-bodies had 305s, which would in fact make them slower than the 5.0 Mustang.

There were still a lot of these cars around in stock form back in the mid '90s when I was racing them. My experiance was that most of the light weight F-bodies with 350s and the 5.0 notch 5-speeds were running low 14s stock.

Irunelevens

Yeah I know... hence why I said it was a lot like the Mach 1/LS1 F-body thing (driver's race), except the traps are closer.

88blackgt

lol test data? I'm talking track times. Hell Bob Cosby posts here dont ask me!

as early as 87' Tony Defeo ran a 13.7(january iirc)

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

LOL! You can't quote a few select factory freaks as the norm/most/average.

Exmaple: In 1999, Evan Smith ran a 12.89 in a bone stock '99 Z28. There have been other cases of 100% stock LS1 F-bodies running in the 12.9x range (I myself saw a 100% stock '02 WS6 run a 12.98). But nobody says that "most/many LS1 F-bodies run high 12s stock".

Same goes for any car, it's what they run on average that really matters, since few people will be blessed with a factory freak (or the abilities of your top 1% of drivers). A handful of cars does not create a "norm".

Irunelevens

Yes, but what's the point of throwing in that douche that runs a 15.1 in his 6spd WS6? I know that some LS1 F-bodies can run 12s, and that quite a few of them run low 13s. So to me, they are low 13s cars for the most part... but I know that I might run into one of the ones that runs 12.9 @ 110mph.

88blackgt

i missed where i said that was the norm? i can say it again; the average times were faster and the "out of the norm" times were faster by quite a bit.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No problem, I'll remind you:

"a good amount" would = norm to most people. 13s were certainly not the norm, or a good amount, or many, or most, or any other word/phrase you care to use. Those were factory freaks.

The average times were nearly the same, 350ci vs 5.0, comparing the notches to a stripper Camaro & Formula, and the fully loaded GT to a GTA & hightly optioned Z28. And that's only when the 5.0 had a 5-speed. With an AOD, even the notch would get slapped by a TPI 350 car. Stock for stock.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, you totally missed my point.

Saying that fox body 5.0 5-speed Mustangs were high 13 second cars stock is the same as saying that LS1 F-bodies are high 12 second cars stock.

Toss out the freaks and the turds. Draw your conclusions and make your comparasions based on the averages.

88blackgt

My definition of a good amount is about the same as ls1 cars that have broken into the 12s; not the norm but it happened more than a handful of times.

UltraZLS1

iTrader: (13)

Disagree completely. They were within a couple tenths on both counts.

I guess you are trying to tell us they could equal or best an lt-1 car? No...it was game over when they came out. Yet the lt-1 was a high 13 second car on average.

here is some info on the mythical 13 second runs by the 5.0 cars.

http://forums.mustangworks.com/f8/stock-no-more-24905/
The great Tony Defeo who sold mustangs to a bunch of tools if they thought they could equal this.
He advanced the timing. He removed the air cleaner. It was in the dead of winter. It was in new jersey. They paid for hours of track time.

Give me an effing break man. If you dont think that legit 14.4 at motor trend by the 1990 iroc could get to the 13's by going negative DA in the dead of winter and advancing the timing and removing the air filter with hours of track time you are in la la land.

Funny how history can get foggy.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Well, then we have totally different definitions of "good amount". I think you may be alone on this one, as few people would agree that a good amount of 100% stock LS1 F-bodies have hit 12s.

I agree completely. Some people like to remember the ringers (which are often the result of some hidden tricks/tweaks/etc.), and forget what things were like day-to-day.

Irunelevens

Didn't miss the point at all. I would never say that 5.0 notches were 13s cars, but I know that they were low-mid 14s cars all day with a good driver/conditions. Just like LS1s are low-mid 13s cars all day. And 5.0s/LS3 Camaros are mid-high 12s.