MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

If you are going by the treadwear rating alone, I'd remind you that treadwear ratings are not universal across all manufacturers. It is my understanding that the Pirellis are designed to handle wet weather (MPSCs are not), and because of that, their dry traction is compromised compared to the Sport Cups. The Sport Cups are very bad in the rain, but better in the dry.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

Because it's a fair comparison between a car he has logged 100s of racing miles on vs a car he's never driven before? Like Randy said himself, confidence is key. Also, I'm not trying to discredit the ZR1 as much as I'm trying to discredit Randy as the test driver. The ZR1 and the new Viper are equal, and with a different driver should run equal times around the track. But every review I have read by him he picks the easier to drive car, or the one he's more confident in, which really makes me think he sucks at adapting to new cars.

To help prove my point, his time of a 2009 ZR1 at Laguna Seca (identical as far as I know to the 2013 for handling capabilities with all systems off, and lists Michelin Pilot Sport 2 as the tires that time) was 1:35.8, exactly what the new Viper went. So he shaved a full two seconds off with no changes other than more seat time.

MI-Z/28

Seat time on anything plays a huge factor, be it a car, bike, boat, etc. Absolutely no disagreeing with that. But I also think being "easier" to drive is an advantage that is built into a vehicle just like horsepower, curb weight, etc. Two cars with all else equal except one is easier to drive, and I will take the car that's easier to drive. Guaranteed it will yield faster lap times on a more consistent basis than the car that is more difficult to drive.

I think a great comparison is the Top Gear episode that pits the ZR1 against an Audi R8. I don't remember all the details, but the cars were a fair comparison on paper. Clarkson was faster in the R8, because it was easier for him to control. The Stig was faster in the ZR1, because he had the skills to tame and take advantage of it. So which was the better car? (rhetorical question)

So in this case, I would say that being easier to drive yields a check mark in the advantage column for the ZR1.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

Then why are you driving a Camaro instead of a WRX/STI/Evo/some other car with AWD?

Another thing to point out about seat time and confidence, here is what he said the first time-

"This ZR1 felt a lot like the last Z06 I drove. An involvement car. My knuckles were a lot whiter at the wheel of the ZR1 than they were in the Audi [R8]. The ZR1's very powerful, but its handling made me want to slow down and be completely in control as I was entering the corners." -- Randy Pobst

He went from that to having full confidence in the car with no other changes besides more time behind the wheel. Like I said before, he doesn't seem to adjust to new cars very quick.

MI-Z/28

You left out my next sentence. Why? I was on the subject of lap times. For my daily driver I do not care about lap times. If I'm concerned about lap times, all else equal between two cars I will take the one that is easier to drive.

D3VIL

Exactly what I was saying, 10k into the interior makes a HUGE difference.

And $125,920(vette) $141,990(viper) As tested?

Wow $16k is a big gap! And I'm sure there are MANY below 5k miles ZR1 still out in the lot being sold at $90K, but I don't wanna get into the new vs used debate, though I think at that mileage it's practically brand new, to me anyways.

firebird99

iTrader: (2)

You sir are correct that's something I didn't take into consideration. Well I guess the viper will answer back with a sticky tire big wing track beast soon I hope.
I thought this time it had the super soft near race ready tires? Which would show why it was faster then before. Or maybe it was the seat time or maybe better weather or maybe Chevy sent them a ringer or maybe you need to stop splitting hairs and accept the facts.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

As an aside, a lot of guys raised their eyebrows when SRT announced that they would be using Pirelli instead of Michelin for the Gen V Viper. I think the general consensus was that Fiat more or less told SRT that Pirelli would be used to source the tires, and that was that. There were some people that thought it was a great idea, and others that wondered why they'd stray from a tire company that has been proven for years with the Viper. All '08-'10 ACRs wore Michelin Pilot Sport Cups from the factory, and that's a big part of the reason why they were so fast around the track (well, the 1,000lbs of downforce from its aero kit didn't hurt either).

I'd be curious to see if SRT has either already tested or will test the Pirelli vs. the MPSC to see which fares better on a dry track. I have a feeling that they already have that data since it took a long time for Pirelli to actually get the Viper tire built in meaningful numbers, so most Viper mules were riding around on the old Michelin spec'd tires. I doubt we'd see any results from that though...I'm sure there will be a few new Viper owners that try both and report any differences.

SlowFRC

iTrader: (2)

Lol at 10k. You realize full Caravaggio interiors are 40k and up right? Even at that price you've got an interior that rivals any exotic out there and is worth it IMO but 10k is way off.

firebird99

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the insight I did not know that and your right that could be a big game changer. I wonder if tire for tire the end results would be the same?

justin455

I don't know what Caravaggio is, but I posted a picture of a Callaway Corvette...which, in itself, is a statement in overpriced fanfare. I could see some people spending 40k on an interior, but those people would be stupid in my eyes. 10k would get you quality materials and seats (maybe not top of the line, swaddled in baby endangered species level, but very nice) and install from a reputable shop. Maybe 15k, but I don't see how you would have to spend more than that to turn a ZR1's interior into serious competition against others in it's price range.

:edit: Looked up Caravaggio and

It seems it's hard to get a straight forward price out of anyone on how much they paid, but this one was quoted at 18k.

http://www.luxury4play.com/american-...corvettes.html

Granted it doesn't have everything, but it still bumps it up a few nothces from one of the top names in corvette interiors. I still stand you can get it done for 10k and have something very nice, but at the price point of a ZR1 I'd probably be willing to spend the extra 8k for that interior. I'm sure some can run 40k, but that's still a bit ridiculous to me.

SlowFRC

iTrader: (2)

Look up the threads started by carvaggio on corvetteforum, they don't really have any prices but you can see lots of pics of the work they do. If you want the best interior you can possibly buy for a vette they're the guys to go to. Maybe i'm wrong on 40k, but to get every interior piece redone by them (which is what you'd want to do otherwise the few crappy plastic pieces you left would really stand out) would have to be at least 20k and 30k sounds more realistic to me. You can easily spend 7k on seats from them.

I think at that price point it's worth it. Admittedly that's way too rich for my blood but to spend 30k bringing the interior up to par with exotics when every other part of the car exceeds that of exotics isn't too bad.

EDIT: here's a guy with a c5, whole interior redone by apsis, which is definitely not as nice as carvaggio, he breaks down his costs, over 16k. SO maybe my 40k was off. But I could see carvaggio at 20-25k. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...-progress.html