ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=458461


i would guess lineup expansion and incentives and rebates will help pick up sales at some point.

JROC

It's a shame. It's kind of GM's fault, but I can understand why they wanted to keep much of the Gen5's recipe for the Camaro as it sold so well for them.

The performance of the gen6 is awesome. It is a badass car. What isn't badass about the Camaro is things dating back to the Gen4's and maybe Gen3's in relation to Mustang and things that hurt it's Gen4 sale against the weaker performing Mustang. Let's just be real here a Mustang is just an easier car to live with and that's a good thing for the Mustang.

1)Camaro is too hard to see out of. In the words of the bad guy from the movie "Bad Boys II" "This is a stupid f'ing problem to have. But, it is a problem nonetheless." Small windows are not only stupid from a visibility standpoint but they are ugly and they look cartoonish and just make the car look bigger than it really is. Challenger suffers from the same problem, where Mustang does not.

2)The Camaro sits too low with too high and long a dash and hood. Holy chit I use to think Fbody's were bad about these things, but the Gen5/6 Camaro's take it to another level. GM needs to look at how the 04-06 GTO sat people and had good visibility and try and copy that. Not only does sitting better in the car like a Mustang does make for a more comfortable and less stressful experience it makes the car much easier to drive aggressively and make quick judgements.

3)Camaro is too expensive. Maybe not for the performance it offers, but for the car it is trying to sell to the market it's intended to sell to it is. The lowest I've seen the low optioned Gen6 SS's stickered at was in the $45K range. Again awesome performance from a base model V8 Camaro, but priced too high to make annual Camaro sells hit 6 figures. Maybe GM was counting on the I4 and V6 models to gain more sells.

4)The interior looks kind of hokey. It's not really a cheap interior, just not a very attractive one compared to the Mustangs. Also I think it's an okay looking car and an improvement over the Gen5's looks, but many don't like that it kept much of the same looks as the Gen5's.

The sad thing is the news Mustang is selling great even though just like the Gen5 Camaro it's ugly and more importantly it's an over weight pig. Pretty funny how the Camaro will beat up on the new Mustangs performance, but not even touch its sells. I think the main thing GM needs to do to compete with Mustangs sells is to get the Camaro SS's price down. (and a lot)

badformulaLS1

iTrader: (1)

4th gen all over again. Primarily due to price and an appearance that is either hit or miss depending on the person just like the 4th gen.

NowhereFast

Hold up, the Mustang is ugly but the 6 gen Camaro isn't? One of the reasons they're selling so well is that they're so damn attractive. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person on the street call them ugly. The Camaro just looks awkward from a lot of angles, and it's almost indistinguishable from the 5th gen. Newsflash, everyone that wanted a 5th gen already has one.

Over exaggeration. Less than 5 tenths in the quarter is NOT beating up. On the street they're a driver's race for most. Both the cars are exciting to drive, so that small gap doesn't mean **** to the car buying public.

I would have loved to have spent money on a Camaro, because it would make my life so much easier. Working at a GM dealer, I have access to all the tools, software, and parts that I'd need to fix it myself, which would be huge considering I don't trust anyone touching my ****. Unfortunately, the 6gen is underwhelming, and Ford knocked it out of the park with the S550. That's why I bought one instead.

MasterTomos

iTrader: (15)

5 tenths is half a second...you know that right? Have you ever been to a drag strip to see what a half a second difference looks like in a 1/4 mile?

JROC

I'm sorry you think I'm just a chevy fanboy hater. Well while I have switch loyalties recently, other than my one Chevy I also currently own 2 Mustangs and a Lightning. The new Mustang is stupid looking. The reverse light is surround by the painted panel which itself is surrounded by that black plastic panel at the bottom of the bumper is the gayest looking **** I've ever seen put on an American performance car. Using sideshirts on a car that aren't painted is also stupid looking. Other than that I don't think the rest of the car looks all that great. Its interior is nice as long as you're not a rear seat passenger. The Gen 6 Camaro looks meh but not really ugly as it doesn't try little gimmick bits to look different or new might be a better word like Mudstain does but that really make it look ugly.

The Gen6 Mustang is pretty much the Gen5 Camaro. An overweight POS that's outperformed by it competition, but that sales very well. Like the poster above you said the Gen6 Camaro is the Gen4 all over again. It's a compromised car that excels at the main thing it's supposed to "performance" and beats down its main competition. In fact a base SS is much closer to the GT350's performance than the GT's. This is the 90's and early 00's all over again. GM beats Fords *** in performance but Mustang eats Camaro up on sales.

If GM wants to compete with Mustangs sales I think that they are going to have to figure out how to get Camaro ( and especially the v8 cars ) price down. Still some people will by a Mustang because it's a Mustang regardless of whether it gets beaten on by Camaro. Especially now that Mustang gets a IRS.

BTW the new SS has been clicking off very low 12's or even high 11's. The Gen6 Mustang GT isn't in stock trim and even seems to be bettered a little in a straight line by the S197 Coyote cars. I'm not impressed with the new Mustang.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Not sure why people keep stating this. Perhaps these folks didn't buy a 4th gen Camaro new and aren't aware of how close its MSRP was to Mustang in the '98-'02 years. The price difference between base V8 Camaro and base V8 Mustang was only a few hundred dollars back then - barely even worth mentioning. In 2016 the price difference between the two is several thousand dollars at base level V8 and, as a percentage of the respective MSRPs, that's exponentially more than the difference in the 4th gen/SN95 years.

Price is a big issue now, I agree, but that just wasn't the case in the 4th gen era.

I agree. I'm definitely not a fan of the 6th gen Camaro appearance at all, especially the front end which is much too busy, particularly on the V8 cars; I'm in the group that finds '15+ Mustang to be a MUCH better styled vehicle in every aspect. Having said that, the '10-'14 Mustangs were better cosmetically than either of the aforementioned IMO. I've never owned a Ford in my life but, simply based on appearance, I would buy a new Mustang over a 6th gen Camaro even if they were the same price. The fact that Camaro is $4300 more (MSRP vs. MSRP with auto trans, a requirement for me, option for both on a base model V8) makes it that much less attractive to me. I've had a bunch of Camaros and 90% of the vehicles I've owned have been GM; I wish I liked the Camaro better too, I really do.

Faster though it may be (Camaro), there is great truth in this statement:

Neither car is boring or slow, so for many individuals the performance of Mustang is more than adequate, especially when considering the price difference.

For those who demand the fastest possible brand new stock vehicle for under $40k, whether for bragging rights or just to start with the absolute most power possible, the Camaro would be the better choice. For everyone else, it will come down to styling preference and price - hence the better sales enjoyed by Mustang.

Z Fury

iTrader: (1)

The new Camaro, performance wise, is nothing short of spectacular. That said, that amazing performance comes with a price, and GM is learning that people aren't willing to pay that price. At least not in the same volume as they did with the prior, not as spectacular generation.

Yes, the new Mustang is inferior to this car in almost every performance metric out there. But I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of buyers will ever track their car, so what does it matter to them if their car is slower on the drag strip and a road course? Mustang buyers will have over 400hp in a more budget-friendly car that is (by a lot of accounts) easier to live with day to day (slightly bigger back seat, better visibility, etc.).

So to me, none of this is surprising when you evaluate it. The real surprise, at least to me, is that GM seems content to let the Camaro ride as-is. Given that the new Camaro shares its chassis with the ATS and CTS, I think the costs are covered a bit better. As in, the lower volume of sales isn't as critical as it was in prior generations. Would I like to see a nice incentive come by so I can better justify buying one? Of course. But I don't think GM is wanting to play that game anymore.

And no, low sales does not mean that Camaro will be discontinued again. Sales would have to be much lower, and for an extended period of time.

Double-aught_Z/28

iTrader: (11)

The problem is price for sure. I also think the styling is a step backward from the 5th gen, but that doesn't even come into play when no one can afford one. I would legitimately consider buying a new 1SS if I could get it for under $30k. I don't need the fancy interior and electronics and gadgets. I want a V8 and thats it. So far I the cheapest Ive seen a base 1SS is $36k.

infinitebird

iTrader: (11)

I plan to buy one but not until the price comes down a little. I think by 2018 I should be able to get a 2016 in the high 20s to low 30s, considering what 2014s go for now. As a rule I never buy cars new, the depreciation is too much of a loss in the first few years to make it worth it.

Felix C

Well I think it is a great engine in a terrible interior and overdone exterior. I am not surprised it lags behind in sales.

Z06PSI

iTrader: (33)

Mustang is still killing it though. The market is there but everyone is buying a V6/Ecoboost at this point.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

I saw my first 6th gen locally recently.

5th gens showed up overnight all over the place when they were released.

There was a lot of anticipation for the 5th gen, but the 6th gen was rather quiet, really.

I don't care for the new Mustang, at all. To me it looks like an awkwardly chopped off Fusion that they kinda forced a Mustang rear end onto. I just do not like it. The previous one, yeah, I'll admit that was a good looking car. But not the current one.

Just like the 4th gen I guess, I'd take the 6th gen over the competition in a heartbeat, no questions.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

^^This. That being said, I really like the styling of the new Mustang. See one in silver and notice the well-sculpted lines. But I just can't go Mustang. So I stick to my 4th gen Formulas.

5.7stroker

iTrader: (36)

When I was in college, I was able to afford a brand new 99 Mustang GT. Car payment $400, insurance payment $200. You are only young once, so might as well do it right.

How the hell is a college kid these days suppose to enjoy a new v8 with the way these cars are priced? And on top of that you're going to make it so that you can't see out it?

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Maybe gm shoukd try advertising the damn car.

Imo the interior is great. I like the 5gen interior also. The mustang interior looked cheap and busy to me with to many buttons.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

you were in college and could afford $600 a month for a car?

i dont even pay that much now for my 1le a month.

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

bingo. the average consumer doesn't even know that the 6th gen is any different than the 5th gen.

I see the prices of new Camaros and said to hell with this "retro style" fetish and went and bought the real deal 1st gen Camaro for less money and more power. sure, there are bells and whistles that the 6th gen has that my 69 doesn't, but while your cars depreciate, mine appreciates. better looking and I wont lose my ***.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Yep. One problem is that the 6th gen isn't retro enough. Smooth out and soften the lines from the 5th gen ala 69 and you have a winner. Instead, as RPM WS6 says, they went even more cartoonish.

5.7stroker

iTrader: (36)

Yes, I was working full time while taking 20 credit hours a semester and work paid my tuition. No life while doing all that, so I figured I might as well enjoy my commute time back and forth between work home and school. I often wonder if I should had invested that money instead, but then again, only young once. The sticker price on the car was $21,500....so how is a college kid going to afford $40k+ these days?