Silverado VS Tundra VS F150
07-05-2007, 09:13 PM
#21
Originally Posted by CTSmechanic
Im happy with my new 07 Silverado....wasnt even thinking about any other truck on the market...I get to spent all next week @ GM in Michigan working on the 7 post shaker,Its going to be awesome checking out all the new stuff....
The video is very interesting. The Toyota performed like crap on that test road. If the speed were changed the Ford and GM would have looked different also. The Ford was at a sweet spot where the suspension was planted. The structure looked solid on both to me and was not resonating.
That test road says nothing for the actual strength of the frame structure. It certainly shows that the Toyota has a horrible resonance going over that surface. I'm not defending it, buy any means, I work for GM.
And semi trucks don't have a fully boxed frame, so that does not make the Ford frame better. They do that kind of stuff for advertising. Trust me advertising plays a big role in "options" that can be marketed into cars.
Brian
07-06-2007, 10:28 AM
#22
This is one thing that pisses me off:
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
07-06-2007, 03:11 PM
#23
Originally Posted by vaticano
lol man that thread over at the supra forum blew up talk about stirring up the hornets nest
NM. I found it.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=442217
Last edited by Richiec77; 07-06-2007 at 03:22 PM.
07-06-2007, 07:16 PM
#25
Originally Posted by 00PewterSS
I'm guessing you will be at the Warren Test Labs VPC building. That is the only 7-post I know of in GM. Are you doing ride tuning? If so I'll stop by and say hi, I have a test running in that lab right now.
The video is very interesting. The Toyota performed like crap on that test road. If the speed were changed the Ford and GM would have looked different also. The Ford was at a sweet spot where the suspension was planted. The structure looked solid on both to me and was not resonating.
That test road says nothing for the actual strength of the frame structure. It certainly shows that the Toyota has a horrible resonance going over that surface. I'm not defending it, buy any means, I work for GM.
And semi trucks don't have a fully boxed frame, so that does not make the Ford frame better. They do that kind of stuff for advertising. Trust me advertising plays a big role in "options" that can be marketed into cars.
Brian
The video is very interesting. The Toyota performed like crap on that test road. If the speed were changed the Ford and GM would have looked different also. The Ford was at a sweet spot where the suspension was planted. The structure looked solid on both to me and was not resonating.
That test road says nothing for the actual strength of the frame structure. It certainly shows that the Toyota has a horrible resonance going over that surface. I'm not defending it, buy any means, I work for GM.
And semi trucks don't have a fully boxed frame, so that does not make the Ford frame better. They do that kind of stuff for advertising. Trust me advertising plays a big role in "options" that can be marketed into cars.
Brian
07-06-2007, 10:44 PM
#26
This is one thing that pisses me off:
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
To add,
What it comes down to is the Japanese controlling our market. They hire very few American Engineers, Development techs or managers relative to our OEMs. Mostly assembly related jobs. The American managers have very little say so compared to an equivalent Japanese manager.
The main difference is the Japanese are bright enough to realize thier economic future lies in thier manufacturing base. We apparently do not care where our products are produced. This is not the case with the majority on this board, but we all see this happening all around us. Most of the young engineers and some of the old ones I work with only buy imports even though they work for an American manufacturer. Kind of a bummer. I guess we'll see how this pans out in our future.
Last edited by TT632; 07-07-2007 at 02:07 AM.
07-07-2007, 02:03 PM
#27
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
This is one thing that pisses me off:
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
QFT
07-08-2007, 03:24 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
This is one thing that pisses me off:
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
People argue that Import build the cars in the US so its ok. Umm... well look at WHY they do it! Tarrifs and quoats. They didn't do it to make you happy or promote America. They didn't do it cause it was cheaper.
All the parts are still forgien made and all the cash still goes back there. Why would they do it if someone else got the bulk of the cash???
Any explaination that tries to justify that most of the cast stays in America is fictionous!!
WTF? It most certainly IS NOT out of the benevolence their hearts/love for THIS country that the foreign manufacturers build transplants here! 
Meanwhile everyone (especially the import fan/TOYboyzz) BLAST the domestics for shipping jobs out of this country, so that they can even have a chance of surviving against the Asian onslaught! I guess they just CANNOT wait for the ENTIRE U.S. auto industry to go under, huh??
07-08-2007, 08:05 PM
#30
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Wow at the ignorance of some people.
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc..... employ 1000's of American workers. But yet you seem to think, everything goes back to Japan
. A better question would be. How many US jobs would be lost, if there werent any of those companies listed? What confuses me is, you complain about Japanese cars being built in American, but you buy American cars made in Mexico! Yep, that makes alot of since. This cracks me up! As though the taxes you pay when you buy a car would be mailed off to the car's country of origin. As though maintenance performed on that car wouldn't be keeping local mechanics in business. As though new imported vehicles aren't subject to tariff. America makes money off imported goods sold in America. Buying a foreign car still supports American businesses in the long run.
And the fact that you're considering patronizing a local, independently owned business is probably the most important factor. You can embrace globalism while actively supporting your local economy.
Does it makes since, if a person in China bought a Z06 Vette, the money would be sent back to Mexico? LOL at some of the ignorance.
Toyotas made in the U.S.
* Chevys made in Mexico.
* Hondas made with American engines.
* Fords made in Canada
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc..... employ 1000's of American workers. But yet you seem to think, everything goes back to Japan
. A better question would be. How many US jobs would be lost, if there werent any of those companies listed? What confuses me is, you complain about Japanese cars being built in American, but you buy American cars made in Mexico! Yep, that makes alot of since. This cracks me up! As though the taxes you pay when you buy a car would be mailed off to the car's country of origin. As though maintenance performed on that car wouldn't be keeping local mechanics in business. As though new imported vehicles aren't subject to tariff. America makes money off imported goods sold in America. Buying a foreign car still supports American businesses in the long run. And the fact that you're considering patronizing a local, independently owned business is probably the most important factor. You can embrace globalism while actively supporting your local economy.
Does it makes since, if a person in China bought a Z06 Vette, the money would be sent back to Mexico?
LOL at some of the ignorance. Toyotas made in the U.S.
* Chevys made in Mexico.
* Hondas made with American engines.
* Fords made in Canada
07-08-2007, 09:16 PM
#31
Originally Posted by pssonu
Wow at the ignorance of some people.
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc..... employ 1000's of American workers. But yet you seem to think, everything goes back to Japan . A better question would be. How many US jobs would be lost, if there werent any of those companies listed? What confuses me is, you complain about Japanese cars being built in American, but you buy American cars made in Mexico! Yep, that makes alot of since. This cracks me up! As though the taxes you pay when you buy a car would be mailed off to the car's country of origin. As though maintenance performed on that car wouldn't be keeping local mechanics in business. As though new imported vehicles aren't subject to tariff. America makes money off imported goods sold in America. Buying a foreign car still supports American businesses in the long run.
And the fact that you're considering patronizing a local, independently owned business is probably the most important factor. You can embrace globalism while actively supporting your local economy.
Does it makes since, if a person in China bought a Z06 Vette, the money would be sent back to Mexico? LOL at some of the ignorance.
Toyotas made in the U.S.
* Chevys made in Mexico.
* Hondas made with American engines.
* Fords made in Canada
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc..... employ 1000's of American workers. But yet you seem to think, everything goes back to Japan
. A better question would be. How many US jobs would be lost, if there werent any of those companies listed? What confuses me is, you complain about Japanese cars being built in American, but you buy American cars made in Mexico! Yep, that makes alot of since. This cracks me up! As though the taxes you pay when you buy a car would be mailed off to the car's country of origin. As though maintenance performed on that car wouldn't be keeping local mechanics in business. As though new imported vehicles aren't subject to tariff. America makes money off imported goods sold in America. Buying a foreign car still supports American businesses in the long run. And the fact that you're considering patronizing a local, independently owned business is probably the most important factor. You can embrace globalism while actively supporting your local economy.
Does it makes since, if a person in China bought a Z06 Vette, the money would be sent back to Mexico?
LOL at some of the ignorance. Toyotas made in the U.S.
* Chevys made in Mexico.
* Hondas made with American engines.
* Fords made in Canada
The US auto companies do not have a level playing field, everyone recognizes this. They and their US suppliers are struggling to stay alive. And final assembly is just that... if that takes place in Mexico that doesn't mean the engineering and all the parts and workers are from Mexico. And the money from the sale of that vehicle does go to the US.
This is a very complex situation that can not be explained with generalizations. Supporting US companies and US products will help the US, that is easy to understand. We are going to be in a world of hurt if the US loses it's manufacturing base!
Brian
07-08-2007, 09:18 PM
#32
Originally Posted by pssonu
Wow at the ignorance of some people.
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc..... employ 1000's of American workers. But yet you seem to think, everything goes back to Japan . A better question would be. How many US jobs would be lost, if there werent any of those companies listed? What confuses me is, you complain about Japanese cars being built in American, but you buy American cars made in Mexico! Yep, that makes alot of since. This cracks me up! As though the taxes you pay when you buy a car would be mailed off to the car's country of origin. As though maintenance performed on that car wouldn't be keeping local mechanics in business. As though new imported vehicles aren't subject to tariff. America makes money off imported goods sold in America. Buying a foreign car still supports American businesses in the long run.
And the fact that you're considering patronizing a local, independently owned business is probably the most important factor. You can embrace globalism while actively supporting your local economy.
Does it makes since, if a person in China bought a Z06 Vette, the money would be sent back to Mexico? LOL at some of the ignorance.
Toyotas made in the U.S.
* Chevys made in Mexico.
* Hondas made with American engines.
* Fords made in Canada
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc..... employ 1000's of American workers. But yet you seem to think, everything goes back to Japan
. A better question would be. How many US jobs would be lost, if there werent any of those companies listed? What confuses me is, you complain about Japanese cars being built in American, but you buy American cars made in Mexico! Yep, that makes alot of since. This cracks me up! As though the taxes you pay when you buy a car would be mailed off to the car's country of origin. As though maintenance performed on that car wouldn't be keeping local mechanics in business. As though new imported vehicles aren't subject to tariff. America makes money off imported goods sold in America. Buying a foreign car still supports American businesses in the long run. And the fact that you're considering patronizing a local, independently owned business is probably the most important factor. You can embrace globalism while actively supporting your local economy.
Does it makes since, if a person in China bought a Z06 Vette, the money would be sent back to Mexico?
LOL at some of the ignorance. Toyotas made in the U.S.
* Chevys made in Mexico.
* Hondas made with American engines.
* Fords made in Canada
Even if GM gives jobs to Canada at least its not Asia. GM has been an international corp since 1905 or so.
Doesn't matter. Where does most of the work/dollars stay? Plus, when things tend to be built in Asia they are just inferior and often violate laws here in the US. DON'T THINK JUST CARS.I'd rather have the work done in Canada than Asia --- becase Asia is constantly sending us poisonous food and other products. You never hear about 90% of the rejected Chineese shipments unless you want to. Believe they do sick things like intentionally poisoning people in S America by putting radiator glycol in mouth wash. Hundreds die in other countries where Chineese foods aren't inspected as well as US inspectors do.
If we didn't have such good inspections in the US I think you would realise a new side of Asian goods CARS or NOT!
07-08-2007, 10:23 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
The American factory workers get jack. The Asian company holders get all the cash. With GM or Ford at least the bulk of the good jobs AKA CEO and engineers are AMERICAN PEOPLE. The money stays here. GM and Ford use more domestic parts than imports cars do. Therefore they keep more jobs here. With an Asian company the profits are still only realised by the people they keep close [of the same country] and the non American design work.
Even if GM gives jobs to Canada at least its not Asia. GM has been an international corp since 1905 or so. Doesn't matter. Where does most of the work/dollars stay? Plus, when things tend to be built in Asia they are just inferior and often violate laws here in the US. DON'T THINK JUST CARS.
I'd rather have the work done in Canada than Asia --- becase Asia is constantly sending us poisonous food and other products. You never hear about 90% of the rejected Chineese shipments unless you want to. Believe they do sick things like intentionally poisoning people in S America by putting radiator glycol in mouth wash. Hundreds die in other countries where Chineese foods aren't inspected as well as US inspectors do.
If we didn't have such good inspections in the US I think you would realise a new side of Asian goods CARS or NOT!
Even if GM gives jobs to Canada at least its not Asia. GM has been an international corp since 1905 or so.
Doesn't matter. Where does most of the work/dollars stay? Plus, when things tend to be built in Asia they are just inferior and often violate laws here in the US. DON'T THINK JUST CARS.I'd rather have the work done in Canada than Asia --- becase Asia is constantly sending us poisonous food and other products. You never hear about 90% of the rejected Chineese shipments unless you want to. Believe they do sick things like intentionally poisoning people in S America by putting radiator glycol in mouth wash. Hundreds die in other countries where Chineese foods aren't inspected as well as US inspectors do.
If we didn't have such good inspections in the US I think you would realise a new side of Asian goods CARS or NOT!
your delusional.
07-08-2007, 10:30 PM
#34
Originally Posted by pssonu
your delusional.You are delusional. Use a damn search engine:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/02/us...78dee6&ei=5070
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06...aste_squeezed/
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=56056
Last edited by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed; 07-08-2007 at 10:49 PM.
07-08-2007, 10:39 PM
#35
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What about the lovely CLOSED MARKET Japan has? That isn't fair trade at all! I say Washington should tell the Japanese automakers to take a hike until they open their market! It would work too, because we buy a LOT of Japanese cars!
07-08-2007, 10:52 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
You have two posts. You are biased. Probably defending Toyota to the aid of your paycheck. Hope this helps you climb the corporate ladder.
You are delusional. Use a damn search engine:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/02/us...78dee6&ei=5070
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06...aste_squeezed/
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=56056
You are delusional. Use a damn search engine:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/02/us...78dee6&ei=5070
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06...aste_squeezed/
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=56056
Dude, Im talking about cars and your talking about toothpaste
.I think everyone here knows about this issue with the toothpaste. But honestly, I thought we were talking about Japan and not China
07-08-2007, 11:25 PM
#37
Originally Posted by pssonu
Dude, Im talking about cars and your talking about toothpaste .
I think everyone here knows about this issue with the toothpaste. But honestly, I thought we were talking about Japan and not China
.I think everyone here knows about this issue with the toothpaste. But honestly, I thought we were talking about Japan and not China
07-09-2007, 11:57 AM
#38
Wow at the ignorance of some people.
A better question would be. How many US jobs would be lost, if there werent any of those companies listed?
What confuses me is, you complain about Japanese cars being built in American, but you buy American cars made in Mexico!
If your going to put up any argument. Do a little research first.
07-09-2007, 03:03 PM
#39
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Regardless of where a car is made, the company can only make money if they can sell the product. Why is Toyota able to do that better than GM? Therein lies the truth. Personally, I would rather drive a car that put food on the table of my neighbors family than some mexican family (built here). Having said that, I am happy to see the next Camaro being built 3 hours away from me!