Silverado VS Tundra VS F150
07-11-2007, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydramatic
Yes they did, and that was legendary! Man that was a while ago...
And Zakspeed is German.
However, they did not build or design the GTS or RT/10, the production versions. IIRC Shelby had a hand in the Viper pot when it was being developed, as well as Lamborghini, who crafted the original V-10 out of the Dodge Magnum V10.
You know what? I'm thinking this guy is actually worth not banning. I say keep him.
And Zakspeed is German.
However, they did not build or design the GTS or RT/10, the production versions. IIRC Shelby had a hand in the Viper pot when it was being developed, as well as Lamborghini, who crafted the original V-10 out of the Dodge Magnum V10.
You know what? I'm thinking this guy is actually worth not banning. I say keep him.
07-17-2007, 04:24 PM
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That video was funny. Here's my question, who the hell drives 28 mph over "speed bumps" for extended periods of time? If you notice, the energy didn't cause the beds to vibrate until the trucks were well into their runs. My point being, 99.9% of the time, people slow down when driving over obstructions such as that. Now, if this video was made to prove the F150 handles better in say - downtown Baghdad or Kabul - then great, the F150 is better. Or, maybe someone has to drive 10 miles over a washboard dirt road to get to town everyday. Fantastic, but the rest of us who live where they pave roads, would never have to deal with what was shown on the video.
Its impossible to say who makes the "best" truck. Its all subjective. If you want showroom performance, currently its the 5.7L Tundra. If you want to drive 30 mph over speed bumps, then its the F150. For some, the styling of the Ram is what they want. The new Silverado is a tremendous improvement over the previous generation, and offers a lot of benefits.
I believe the reason the Tundra flexed so much is because it is not a fully boxed frame. They did this to reduce weight, and quite frankly, didn't need a boxed frame to achieve their goals for the truck (towing and performance).
Tests likes this are great for marketing - just like the Tundra video showing its 0-60 runs unloaded and loaded. They don't say in the video the Tundra was in 4wd Hi when it did the 0-60 run. And they also don't tell viewers they did the runs against base V8's offered by their competitors (i.e. the 4.6 Ford, 4.7 Ram, and 4.8 Chevy). Hell, the Tundra should pull a load faster in the video because it has almost 1 liter more engine and 100 more horsepower than the "standard" V8's offered by the Big 3. Again, great for marketing, but highly bias.
A better test would involve a series of scenarios. How about mpg at 65 mph, towing capacity, resale value, standard options, maintenance schedules (I had a 2004 Hemi and it loved the dealer lol), ground clearance, leg room, torque curves, etc. A combination of tests proves the worth of a vehicle, rather than one specific test geared towards its particular strength.
I had a 2004 F150 FX4, and can say this, it had a fantastic interior, but that's where it ended. It couldn't get out of its own way, wasn't constructed with the best materials, and the extra long bolts on the bed didn't do anything for me.
Its impossible to say who makes the "best" truck. Its all subjective. If you want showroom performance, currently its the 5.7L Tundra. If you want to drive 30 mph over speed bumps, then its the F150. For some, the styling of the Ram is what they want. The new Silverado is a tremendous improvement over the previous generation, and offers a lot of benefits.
I believe the reason the Tundra flexed so much is because it is not a fully boxed frame. They did this to reduce weight, and quite frankly, didn't need a boxed frame to achieve their goals for the truck (towing and performance).
Tests likes this are great for marketing - just like the Tundra video showing its 0-60 runs unloaded and loaded. They don't say in the video the Tundra was in 4wd Hi when it did the 0-60 run. And they also don't tell viewers they did the runs against base V8's offered by their competitors (i.e. the 4.6 Ford, 4.7 Ram, and 4.8 Chevy). Hell, the Tundra should pull a load faster in the video because it has almost 1 liter more engine and 100 more horsepower than the "standard" V8's offered by the Big 3. Again, great for marketing, but highly bias.
A better test would involve a series of scenarios. How about mpg at 65 mph, towing capacity, resale value, standard options, maintenance schedules (I had a 2004 Hemi and it loved the dealer lol), ground clearance, leg room, torque curves, etc. A combination of tests proves the worth of a vehicle, rather than one specific test geared towards its particular strength.
I had a 2004 F150 FX4, and can say this, it had a fantastic interior, but that's where it ended. It couldn't get out of its own way, wasn't constructed with the best materials, and the extra long bolts on the bed didn't do anything for me.
Last edited by patricksd; 07-17-2007 at 04:42 PM.
07-18-2007, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by patricksd
That video was funny. Here's my question, who the hell drives 28 mph over "speed bumps" for extended periods of time? If you notice, the energy didn't cause the beds to vibrate until the trucks were well into their runs. My point being, 99.9% of the time, people slow down when driving over obstructions such as that. Now, if this video was made to prove the F150 handles better in say - downtown Baghdad or Kabul - then great, the F150 is better. Or, maybe someone has to drive 10 miles over a washboard dirt road to get to town everyday. Fantastic, but the rest of us who live where they pave roads, would never have to deal with what was shown on the video.
Its impossible to say who makes the "best" truck. Its all subjective. If you want showroom performance, currently its the 5.7L Tundra. If you want to drive 30 mph over speed bumps, then its the F150. For some, the styling of the Ram is what they want. The new Silverado is a tremendous improvement over the previous generation, and offers a lot of benefits.
I believe the reason the Tundra flexed so much is because it is not a fully boxed frame. They did this to reduce weight, and quite frankly, didn't need a boxed frame to achieve their goals for the truck (towing and performance).
Tests likes this are great for marketing - just like the Tundra video showing its 0-60 runs unloaded and loaded. They don't say in the video the Tundra was in 4wd Hi when it did the 0-60 run. And they also don't tell viewers they did the runs against base V8's offered by their competitors (i.e. the 4.6 Ford, 4.7 Ram, and 4.8 Chevy). Hell, the Tundra should pull a load faster in the video because it has almost 1 liter more engine and 100 more horsepower than the "standard" V8's offered by the Big 3. Again, great for marketing, but highly bias.
A better test would involve a series of scenarios. How about mpg at 65 mph, towing capacity, resale value, standard options, maintenance schedules (I had a 2004 Hemi and it loved the dealer lol), ground clearance, leg room, torque curves, etc. A combination of tests proves the worth of a vehicle, rather than one specific test geared towards its particular strength.
I had a 2004 F150 FX4, and can say this, it had a fantastic interior, but that's where it ended. It couldn't get out of its own way, wasn't constructed with the best materials, and the extra long bolts on the bed didn't do anything for me.
Its impossible to say who makes the "best" truck. Its all subjective. If you want showroom performance, currently its the 5.7L Tundra. If you want to drive 30 mph over speed bumps, then its the F150. For some, the styling of the Ram is what they want. The new Silverado is a tremendous improvement over the previous generation, and offers a lot of benefits.
I believe the reason the Tundra flexed so much is because it is not a fully boxed frame. They did this to reduce weight, and quite frankly, didn't need a boxed frame to achieve their goals for the truck (towing and performance).
Tests likes this are great for marketing - just like the Tundra video showing its 0-60 runs unloaded and loaded. They don't say in the video the Tundra was in 4wd Hi when it did the 0-60 run. And they also don't tell viewers they did the runs against base V8's offered by their competitors (i.e. the 4.6 Ford, 4.7 Ram, and 4.8 Chevy). Hell, the Tundra should pull a load faster in the video because it has almost 1 liter more engine and 100 more horsepower than the "standard" V8's offered by the Big 3. Again, great for marketing, but highly bias.
A better test would involve a series of scenarios. How about mpg at 65 mph, towing capacity, resale value, standard options, maintenance schedules (I had a 2004 Hemi and it loved the dealer lol), ground clearance, leg room, torque curves, etc. A combination of tests proves the worth of a vehicle, rather than one specific test geared towards its particular strength.
I had a 2004 F150 FX4, and can say this, it had a fantastic interior, but that's where it ended. It couldn't get out of its own way, wasn't constructed with the best materials, and the extra long bolts on the bed didn't do anything for me.
Personally, I'd put the wimpy 4.7L Tundra up against 4.8L Silverado and laugh all the way to the bank as the Toyota fell so far behind it wouldn't be funny!
07-20-2007, 10:03 PM
#65
Originally Posted by patricksd
That video was funny. Here's my question, who the hell drives 28 mph over "speed bumps" for extended periods of time? If you notice, the energy didn't cause the beds to vibrate until the trucks were well into their runs. My point being, 99.9% of the time, people slow down when driving over obstructions such as that. Now, if this video was made to prove the F150 handles better in say - downtown Baghdad or Kabul - then great, the F150 is better. Or, maybe someone has to drive 10 miles over a washboard dirt road to get to town everyday. Fantastic, but the rest of us who live where they pave roads, would never have to deal with what was shown on the video.
Its impossible to say who makes the "best" truck. Its all subjective. If you want showroom performance, currently its the 5.7L Tundra. If you want to drive 30 mph over speed bumps, then its the F150. For some, the styling of the Ram is what they want. The new Silverado is a tremendous improvement over the previous generation, and offers a lot of benefits.
I believe the reason the Tundra flexed so much is because it is not a fully boxed frame. They did this to reduce weight, and quite frankly, didn't need a boxed frame to achieve their goals for the truck (towing and performance).
Tests likes this are great for marketing - just like the Tundra video showing its 0-60 runs unloaded and loaded. They don't say in the video the Tundra was in 4wd Hi when it did the 0-60 run. And they also don't tell viewers they did the runs against base V8's offered by their competitors (i.e. the 4.6 Ford, 4.7 Ram, and 4.8 Chevy). Hell, the Tundra should pull a load faster in the video because it has almost 1 liter more engine and 100 more horsepower than the "standard" V8's offered by the Big 3. Again, great for marketing, but highly bias.
A better test would involve a series of scenarios. How about mpg at 65 mph, towing capacity, resale value, standard options, maintenance schedules (I had a 2004 Hemi and it loved the dealer lol), ground clearance, leg room, torque curves, etc. A combination of tests proves the worth of a vehicle, rather than one specific test geared towards its particular strength.
I had a 2004 F150 FX4, and can say this, it had a fantastic interior, but that's where it ended. It couldn't get out of its own way, wasn't constructed with the best materials, and the extra long bolts on the bed didn't do anything for me.
Its impossible to say who makes the "best" truck. Its all subjective. If you want showroom performance, currently its the 5.7L Tundra. If you want to drive 30 mph over speed bumps, then its the F150. For some, the styling of the Ram is what they want. The new Silverado is a tremendous improvement over the previous generation, and offers a lot of benefits.
I believe the reason the Tundra flexed so much is because it is not a fully boxed frame. They did this to reduce weight, and quite frankly, didn't need a boxed frame to achieve their goals for the truck (towing and performance).
Tests likes this are great for marketing - just like the Tundra video showing its 0-60 runs unloaded and loaded. They don't say in the video the Tundra was in 4wd Hi when it did the 0-60 run. And they also don't tell viewers they did the runs against base V8's offered by their competitors (i.e. the 4.6 Ford, 4.7 Ram, and 4.8 Chevy). Hell, the Tundra should pull a load faster in the video because it has almost 1 liter more engine and 100 more horsepower than the "standard" V8's offered by the Big 3. Again, great for marketing, but highly bias.
A better test would involve a series of scenarios. How about mpg at 65 mph, towing capacity, resale value, standard options, maintenance schedules (I had a 2004 Hemi and it loved the dealer lol), ground clearance, leg room, torque curves, etc. A combination of tests proves the worth of a vehicle, rather than one specific test geared towards its particular strength.
I had a 2004 F150 FX4, and can say this, it had a fantastic interior, but that's where it ended. It couldn't get out of its own way, wasn't constructed with the best materials, and the extra long bolts on the bed didn't do anything for me.
Thank you for bringing this thread back on topic.
Like you said the Tundra is a great truck for the kind of guy that just wants slight utility with the suburban lifestyle feel. As a work truck I would never buy one due to many of the roads I would be traveling on it with it. For towing heavy loads such as car trailers I would NEVER touch a Tundra but it would be great for a jetski or lawnmower. Thats fine and that is the most heavy duty the average person does.
As someone that has lived in the heartland even if I put my product loyalities behind me I still see huge advantages to the domestic truck lineup.
1. Who got paid for the design work. Sheetmetal, PCM, wiring, ect. That is alot of jobs. Forgien companies DON'T contract the majority of the design work inside the US.
2. Better durability and heavier duty.
3. More assurance that the metalurgy and casting were done properly.
4. Assurance that it will be overbuilt as a company totally in America has less protection from lawsuits. You can't even sue corps in China if Asian made vehicles get parts from there and they do. There is a Jap-Chineese trade relationship with respect to automotive parts and Chineese QC sucks.
5. Better assurance that parts were made in accordance to good enviromental practices and someone would blow the whistle if they saw a problem. [If you laugh at this one you have never been to E. Europe. Think it isn't a problem? Then, you are just ignorant of how bad things can be because America is so clean in comparison. Should stay that way.]
07-20-2007, 11:22 PM
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There are more things to consider when watching that video...
The frame on the new 05+ F150 is strong as hell... this comming from a Chevy guy. The entire truck is a gigantic improvement over the last generation that made national headlines for horrible crash test results. Its also a hell of a lot heavier than the last generation. I think this is why we no longer have the Lightning, they would have to make a hell of a lot more power to equal the older fly weights performance.
Could this added weight and very rigid chassis have givin the F150 an advantage over the others in this test? I would say it has a huge advantage in this test, the more weight you have the more resistant it will be to bouncing around. I have pulled the frames on two different 05+ F150 trucks though and I have to admit they were structurally stronger than any other truck I have pulled by a good amount. In my oppinion the new tundra is a structurally weak built continuation of the previous models with some improvement in the chassis/driveline.
I agree, this test only proves that the F150 is more stable over rough terrain at higher speeds, its no indication of a superior truck to anything else on the road.
I am impressed with the new F150 but after working on the past F150 trucks it doesnt take much to be impressed.
I work on all makes models every day, I also cut these cars/trucks appart and piece them together every day. I see things in the way these trucks are built that 99% of you never see. With that said I wouldnt buy anything but GMC or Chevy when it comes to the truck line.
The frame on the new 05+ F150 is strong as hell... this comming from a Chevy guy. The entire truck is a gigantic improvement over the last generation that made national headlines for horrible crash test results. Its also a hell of a lot heavier than the last generation. I think this is why we no longer have the Lightning, they would have to make a hell of a lot more power to equal the older fly weights performance.
Could this added weight and very rigid chassis have givin the F150 an advantage over the others in this test? I would say it has a huge advantage in this test, the more weight you have the more resistant it will be to bouncing around. I have pulled the frames on two different 05+ F150 trucks though and I have to admit they were structurally stronger than any other truck I have pulled by a good amount. In my oppinion the new tundra is a structurally weak built continuation of the previous models with some improvement in the chassis/driveline.
I agree, this test only proves that the F150 is more stable over rough terrain at higher speeds, its no indication of a superior truck to anything else on the road.
I am impressed with the new F150 but after working on the past F150 trucks it doesnt take much to be impressed.
I work on all makes models every day, I also cut these cars/trucks appart and piece them together every day. I see things in the way these trucks are built that 99% of you never see. With that said I wouldnt buy anything but GMC or Chevy when it comes to the truck line.
Last edited by Jeremiah; 07-20-2007 at 11:30 PM.
07-21-2007, 11:48 AM
#68
I work on all makes models every day, I also cut these cars/trucks appart and piece them together every day. I see things in the way these trucks are built that 99% of you never see. With that said I wouldnt buy anything but GMC or Chevy when it comes to the truck line.
07-21-2007, 05:24 PM
#69
Originally Posted by Shackleford
What about the Toyota commercial of the truck going up and down the incline? 
GM actually asked Toyota to tone down and take out several of their wordings and stretches of truth in this series of commericials. Considering Toyota actually did this to avoid lawsuits from GM and other corporations I would say someone is a liar here!!
I think the benchmark says more than that. If I was towing a heavy trailer and the trailer started to yaw back and forth would the Toyota's frame be deflected, too? If I tried to stop fast how much would it effect the frame? I believe deflection in the frame rails would change the geometry of the vehicle and add unknown safety risks. It could be possible.
Last edited by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed; 07-21-2007 at 05:43 PM.
07-22-2007, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydramatic
+1 you hit the nail on the head!
Personally, I'd put the wimpy 4.7L Tundra up against 4.8L Silverado and laugh all the way to the bank as the Toyota fell so far behind it wouldn't be funny!
Personally, I'd put the wimpy 4.7L Tundra up against 4.8L Silverado and laugh all the way to the bank as the Toyota fell so far behind it wouldn't be funny!
07-22-2007, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wabmorgan
Better yet put it up against the 2500 HD 6.0L!!!!!!!!
07-22-2007, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TT632
While you are in the process of taking the trucks apart can you take some frame thickness measurements? In addition to the Ford being boxed I wouldn't be surprised if they had the thickest.
07-22-2007, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Thank you for bringing this thread back on topic.
Like you said the Tundra is a great truck for the kind of guy that just wants slight utility with the suburban lifestyle feel. As a work truck I would never buy one due to many of the roads I would be traveling on it with it. For towing heavy loads such as car trailers I would NEVER touch a Tundra but it would be great for a jetski or lawnmower. Thats fine and that is the most heavy duty the average person does.
As someone that has lived in the heartland even if I put my product loyalities behind me I still see huge advantages to the domestic truck lineup.
1. Who got paid for the design work. Sheetmetal, PCM, wiring, ect. That is alot of jobs. Forgien companies DON'T contract the majority of the design work inside the US.
2. Better durability and heavier duty.
3. More assurance that the metalurgy and casting were done properly.
4. Assurance that it will be overbuilt as a company totally in America has less protection from lawsuits. You can't even sue corps in China if Asian made vehicles get parts from there and they do. There is a Jap-Chineese trade relationship with respect to automotive parts and Chineese QC sucks.
5. Better assurance that parts were made in accordance to good enviromental practices and someone would blow the whistle if they saw a problem. [If you laugh at this one you have never been to E. Europe. Think it isn't a problem? Then, you are just ignorant of how bad things can be because America is so clean in comparison. Should stay that way.]
Like you said the Tundra is a great truck for the kind of guy that just wants slight utility with the suburban lifestyle feel. As a work truck I would never buy one due to many of the roads I would be traveling on it with it. For towing heavy loads such as car trailers I would NEVER touch a Tundra but it would be great for a jetski or lawnmower. Thats fine and that is the most heavy duty the average person does.
As someone that has lived in the heartland even if I put my product loyalities behind me I still see huge advantages to the domestic truck lineup.
1. Who got paid for the design work. Sheetmetal, PCM, wiring, ect. That is alot of jobs. Forgien companies DON'T contract the majority of the design work inside the US.
2. Better durability and heavier duty.
3. More assurance that the metalurgy and casting were done properly.
4. Assurance that it will be overbuilt as a company totally in America has less protection from lawsuits. You can't even sue corps in China if Asian made vehicles get parts from there and they do. There is a Jap-Chineese trade relationship with respect to automotive parts and Chineese QC sucks.
5. Better assurance that parts were made in accordance to good enviromental practices and someone would blow the whistle if they saw a problem. [If you laugh at this one you have never been to E. Europe. Think it isn't a problem? Then, you are just ignorant of how bad things can be because America is so clean in comparison. Should stay that way.]
I will give Toyota credit, their current Tundra is a vast improvement over their previous model. AND, I think it kicks the crap out of the Titan - in performance, options, and value. I would rate the 5.7L Iforce as the most powerful (both statistically and in the real world) than any gasser currently but in a Ford, Dodge or GM truck. It does have a ton of torque and gets up to 60 mph very quick. Its roomy and has a big bed.
But where they really missed the boat was on styling. In person, the thing is hideous. The body lines don't flow well, there are huge blindspots on the fenders, and its hard to see behind the truck.
All in all, its not a bad truck by any means, but it is more of an "evolution" than a "revolution" when it comes to trucks.
With that being said, my next truck will either be a Silverado or Ram (haven't decided on a 1500 or 2500 diesel yet).
07-22-2007, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by patricksd
I would rate the 5.7L Iforce as the most powerful (both statistically and in the real world) than any gasser currently but in a Ford, Dodge or GM truck.
07-22-2007, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mzoomora
What about the Gm 6.2l(403hp/417tq)? They will be available across the line next year supposedly, only in Denalis(truck and SUV) and Escalades currently. Also the Ford V10(tremendous torque), although it is not a V8.
We cant compare, something thats not out yet.
07-22-2007, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pssonu
We cant compare, something thats not out yet.
They can very easily be compared, so educate yourself before you comment.
07-22-2007, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mzoomora
It is out, read what I wrote. It is available on the Sierra Denali 1/2 ton pickup and also has a 6 speed auto- and is very similar in price if not cheaper when equally optioned. Price out a Tundra 4x4 limited 5.7 Vs a Denali 4x4, both are about $42k before extra options and the Denali comes better equipped.
They can very easily be compared, so educate yourself before you comment.
They can very easily be compared, so educate yourself before you comment.
"""They will be available across the line next year supposedly"'''
07-22-2007, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mzoomora
What about the Gm 6.2l(403hp/417tq)? They will be available across the line next year supposedly, only in Denalis(truck and SUV) and Escalades currently. Also the Ford V10(tremendous torque), although it is not a V8.
07-22-2007, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mzoomora
What about the Gm 6.2l(403hp/417tq)? They will be available across the line next year supposedly, only in Denalis(truck and SUV) and Escalades currently. Also the Ford V10(tremendous torque), although it is not a V8.
Also, not sure if you've driven an F250 with a V10, but its a dog (quickness wise). It gets a load moving, but it is far from a performance motor.
The Hemi trucks are also getting a bump in displacement and power, but until they hit the lot, nobody knows how they perform.
Currently, the fastest stock truck on the market model vs model (i.e. regular cab vs regular cab or extended cab vs extended cab) is the Tundra. I've seen completely stock new 4x4 extended cab Tundras run 14.8 in the 1/4 mile. That's over a half second quicker than a similar model from Ford, GM, Dodge or Nissan.
Once GM and Dodge add their 6 speed transmissions and more powerful motors, I wouldn't be surprised if they surpass the Tundra in performance.
Last edited by patricksd; 07-22-2007 at 09:46 PM.