OSUBraden

I'm surprised anyone would root for Toyota or anything they've made. Sure, if you drive one and like it, great. Honestly though, rooting for Toyota is like rooting for Imported steel in a country that is struggling with general manufacturing because of unfair foreign competition... oh wait, that's happening in the USA. Jesus guys...

DrkPhynx

They've been conditioned by propaganda to beleive that everything else is crappy quality, and that they are actually helping the country.

It goes way beyond rationalization and is well within the realm of programming. (brainwashing, conditioning, call it what you will)

dailydriver

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+ 10 trillion to the above 2 posts!!

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

Very well said, those who drive them and believe they are helping are the ones who need to wake up.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

. A lot of Toyota owners drink the coolaid. Many hard core Toyota owners I have known throughout the years have said they would buy a full size American truck if the need presented itself. Fair statement since our trucks have good reliability like a Corolla or Camry.
What's funny is many of these people are now running out to buy a full size Tundra.......

pssonu

The truck is built in American, by American workers. I dont see the problem here.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Then educate yourself.

The profits go overseas to a company and country that frequently engages in unfair trade practices. They undervalue their currency to manipulate exchange rates, impose unfair tariffs to keep imported products from doing well in their country, engage in shady advertising to mislead consumers, the list goes on and on.

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

The truck is ASSEMBLED here, many of the parts come form The Land of the Rising Sun...

pssonu

Ive already had this discussion previously. The profits do not go all overseas! It is idiotic to think that way. You have Toyota, who employ's thousands of thousands of American workers, who depend on this to support their families. You have technician who work at the dealerships, as well as salesman, financing managers, owner etc..... who all benefit from Toyota.

Qoute taken from Wikipedia:


"Toyota directly employs around 38,340 people in North America. It has made around $16.8 billion in direct investments in North America. It has in total produced 14.8 million vehicles, 2.5 million vehicles sales (2005), 39.2 million total vehicles sales, and purchased $26.1 billion worth of "parts, materials and components" as of December 2005 in North America. It has 1,745 North American dealers and has given around $301 million as philanthropy to the United States between 1991 and 2005. [17]"

Unlike almost all American auto-makers who are shutting down plants and laying off workers, Toyota is opening plants all over the country. They are producing jobs in a market that seems almost dead. I think they have every right! If Ford or Chevy were creating even a few jobs I think they would invest millions into making every citizen know it. Just because a company comes from overseas doesn't make it evil or an emeny to the state. Toyota is making our economy grow and producing a product that is realible and exactly what the consumer wants. They should be rewarded for this.

Americans and their politicians should give up these isolationist thoughts. In the growing gobal world this country cannot afford to revert to what it was before WWII. We cannot close our boarders and stop trade or even inhibit it with out nations. If we want our products to be bought overseas we must allow companies like Toyota, Honda, Sony, etc. to flourish within our boarders.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

GM still employs 6x the amount of people that Toyota does, and would employ more if they were competing on equal ground.

The most idiotic way to think is that payroll is profits, it is not. They are operating expenses, which is why UAW cuts into Gm PROFITS. Toyota profits do go overseas, there is no doubt about it. And GM would employ more people than Toyota does if they were competing on fair ground.

This will be a little oversimplified, but see if this makes sense. GM and Toyota sell pretty close to the same number of vehicles yet GM employs 6x the number of people in the US. So it stands to reason that GM would employ 6x the number of people that Toyota currently does in the US if they were selling those vehicles. Although that is not the case, they would still employ more people- period.

pssonu

The point is not, how many workers GM employs. Its about the extra 40 thousand workers that benefits from Toyota. While GM and Ford are closing plants here(when US workers could benefit) they are building plants in Korea, Asia and other countries world wide( wow, I guess all the money comes here now )

Comcast, SBC and other large US based companies are out sourcing India, instead of employing US citizens. But for some odd reason, I dont here you complaining.



"Now Toyota is marshaling its most formidable asset: its phenomenal wealth. It's on track to make a record profit of $13 billion this year, most of that earned in the United States, where it now sells more cars than it does in Japan. As a result of its enormous profits, Toyota has $36 billion of cash on hand and a stock-market value of more than $200 billion. That's 12 times what GM shares are worth. And Toyota drives that money right back into its cars, outspending GM for the past two years. As a result, Toyota will replace 83 percent of its product line by the end of the decade— the most new models of any automaker, according to Merrill Lynch."


200 billion in stock market value!

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

But that is exactly the point and you are the one thinking of things completely idiotically. Those jobs used to be GM jobs before Toyota/Japan cut into them with unfair trade practices. That 40k would be well over 100k if they were american made cars. Also the techs and salesmen would be there no matter who made the cars. Toyota completely exaggerates the numbers considering they only employ approximately 17k manufacturing employees. They include people who change oil, tires, etc, but those people would have jobs anyways and they are also not directly employed by Toyota even though that is what they would have you believe.

Do you even know why Toyota manufacturers cars here? It is because Clinton threatened them with high tariffs on imported vehicles like they did to US made products in Japan, so they agreed to start producing vehicles here to avoid the taxes. They didnt do it out of the kindness of their hearts.

The person who keeps making completely idiotic statements here is you. You look at things completely one sided and with no information or facts. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself instead of quoting more and more Toyota fan boy facts.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Also look into how many millions are spent by Toyota every year lobbying to keep their unfair advantage. They make sure they have politicians in their back pocket which I am sure is part of the reason some of the US made Hybrids dont get the tax breaks that the Japanese made hybrids get.

pssonu

Yep I am a Toyota fan boy, with a 2005 Tahoe in my stable . Your beyond help. Im not going to debate with you any longer. Basically its pointless to try and convince someone, that Toyota is helping the US economy, while GM is building plants in Korea and China . Go ahead a buy your Mexican built Silverado .

pssonu

Dude your brainwashed. Really

Shackleford

iTrader: (12)

It's clear who is "brainwashed."

pssonu

Yep I am.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Anyone who sides with Oriental Industry obviously has no idea what terrors and horrible things happen behind the Rice Curtain.

This is how their industry works: Steal American or European Idea, Make it cheap, Hope the children solder the board together correctly, Repackage it, and Print a owners' manual with a really shitty translation.

Since I have been working in industry time and time again I have seen it proved that they steal our **** because we implement hidden non-detrimental flaws into products and yet they magically appear in Oriental products of the same specs even though A: They should have of caught and corrected B: Why was the mistake made in the same place. C: If they did find it and knew what it was why didn't they remove the flaw so they didn't get caught.

I am sure this quite moral philosophy extends to all sectors of their industry.

Just to prove it when I went to school I had two Oriental instructors and both of them stole material of textbooks and had it copywrighted under their own name. I mean for real. I am not making this up for some stupid internet post. One even had the maxim: "Cupy Past[e] Cupy Past[e]."

I am aware that the Oriental Automotive Sector doesn't produce fac simile cars to what GM is currently making. However, I am lead to wonder if you dug inside or went back a couple of years in time what you would find out.
------------------------

Besides supporting their other Pirate Business Sectors, being too dependent on cars which utilize parts produced in what I consider unstabile economies is also another point to observe. That is a real point of weakness should there be political conflict in the future over energy sources. Something to really consider if you read up on those leaking nuke plants from the recent earthquake.

Why give money to other people when you could keep it here? Why make other people rich? I am not saying let's go isolationists, but, why import things we can do ourselves.

A lot of people are squimish about REAL jobs in factories. If I got to make something myself I was proud. I had a factory job right out of high school and I don't regret a second of it. We need more American Industry. Probably be a lot less problems in society if young people had meaningful jobs and instead of being the dork Mac Donalds cashier.

Excuse me for the rant and congrats on your 37th post, pssonu. I am going to go get a soda.

IFRYRCE

iTrader: (3)

Not brainwashing at ALL. It's entirely true -- the only reason to think otherwise is if you're brainwashed by import publicity. It's not just the hybrids -- it's the incentives to build plants, tax breaks on cars imported from overseas, etc. All for Jap companies that have 15-20% less of their car made of domestic parts or materials than a comparable American car company. Furthermore, their plants aren't subject to unions, and work harder and longer for less pay and far less benefits.

GM employs more Americans than Toyota, period. Tax breaks mentioned above, however, aren't open to GM in America. But they get them in Canada and Mexico, so why not build there? They don't outsource for the fun of it, if they got the same things as the damn Jap auto companies, they'd probably stay here as well.

You can't say that just because Toyota employs 1/6th of the Americans GM does, they're helping our economy and not sending profits overseas. Let's put it this way -- per dollar earned, GM spends more on American payroll and parts than does Toyota. Even if (note bold, IF) some of Toyota's profits stay here, it doesn't matter. Because more of GM's dollar stays here than does Toyota's. For that reason, it's absurd to argue that Toyota is helping the economy more.


EDIT: The comparison to the Duramax wasn't supposed to be fair, like the Tundra commercials weren't. Now take a duramax/allison and a comparably optioned (same cab, bed, no duallies for the Duramax) Tundra and run them, or . I don't believe for a second the Tundra would win till someone shows me.

dailydriver

This, to me at least is THE MAJOR issue in this next presidential campaign/election (or ANY office's election for that matter) !!
I REALLY need to know exactly which one of them (from all parties) accepts the most "payola"/bribes (it cannot be viewed as anything less than this!! ) from Japan, Inc., as well as any other foreign trade ministries and/or companies, especially China.

Anyone have ANY clue about how I can get this info??!? (So I can vote against them and help defeat the importONLYfanboyzz who just can't wait for their TOY, Japan Inc. (and others) to take over OUR auto industry.)