Paul57

When you say "rattled"...do you mean spark knock?? Hopefully it's making more power if it is needing more fuel. What RPM do you shift at??

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Yep, detonation. In regards to the shift points, with the dual plane intake I shifted at 6200 and the car was not very sensitive to shift points. Although I only went WOT a couple times when I saw the AFR, the engine now seems to rev a little faster in the upper RPMs. We shall see once the jetting is right and I can make some passes at the track as to what shift points it prefers with the Victor Jr..

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Well, the jets are now at 79/91 and AFR now ranges around in the 12:1s at WOT. The AFR varies a lot more at WOT than it did with the dual plane. It is now predominantly in the 12.5:1 area but at points in hits 12.1 and at points it might hit 13.1:1. There is still slight hints of very light clicking at WOT near the upper RPM range, so I am going to pull some timing out. I will go from 31 to 29 to see if that does it. I would like to think this is because of improved volumetric efficiency and not fuel distribution variation. I will look for ETs and maybe track plug reading to answer that question.

3pedals

iTrader: (3)

What's the compression ratio of your engine ?

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

It is 10.9:1. We have 10% ethanol 93 octane around here and I am at sea level.

I dropped the timing down to 29 from 31 and that got rid of the light rattle. The car seems to run and sound strong. It is predominantly between 12.3-12.5:1 AFR at WOT now. So, I will try to get to the track on Wednesday night and see what it runs.

topbrent

iTrader: (1)

Probably premature to ask all these questions prior to taking it down the track, but any "seat-of-the-pants" dyno impressions to share?

Does the car feel any different overall now with the Victor jr?

Does it flash the converter any differently?
Pull harder or differently at different parts of the RPM range?
Feel like the useable RPM range is extended?

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Well no need to speculate, my daughter and I went down to the Bradenton Motorsports for Runday Sunday. The good news: We have a new all time best MPH of 115.56. The bad news is that we lost about .06 to .07 in the 60'. This is what I predicted.

So the best pass of the day was the first pass when it was the coolest outside. The car went 11.69@115.25 with a 1.689 60'. The next pass I got in a little deep in staging, so it hurt the 60'. That pass was an 11.74@115.56 with a 1.729 60'.

The DA today was 1565. The DA when I ran the 11.68@ 114.78 was 760. So, even with losing .06 to .07 in the 60', the car will set a new all time best in cooler weather with the Victor Jr.. In fact, in 2000 D/A my dual plane set up has ran 11.76 @ 113.8.

Driving around the car drives exactly the same. Idles nice with good throttle response etc. At the track it does not leave as hard. It doesn't bog or anything, it just does not snap to attention the way it does with the dual plane. It likes to be shifting at 6400 instead of 6200. And, lastly is the cruise AFR. Because is the 4 sizes larger jetting that my combo wanted, the cruise AFR went from 14:1 with the Performer RPM to 12.5:1 with the Victor Jr.. I have been told the cure for this is to drill the power valve restriction orifices and jet down. I will try that.

My conclusion: In the same D/A in the 1/8 mile, this car will run about the same ET with either manifold but it will run 1 MPH faster. In the same D/A in the 1/4 it will ET about .7 faster and run 1.5 MPH faster. I predict in good weather it will run 11.62@116.3. Since this is a street car and I can't currently hook dead on the street like at the track, I will take the MPH.

butler

I have only run the vic jr. The mustang, being a lightweight, Doen't ned the low end toque advantage. What size tire are you running and what gear if I may ask?

butler

I just saw your sig. Have you considered going to a higher stall? They are still streetable.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

275/60-15 Mickey Thompson on 8" rim. Roughly 27.8".

When I bump up the cam, I may have to step up. I want a cam similar to 3 pedals.

Doug G

So... we were correct in saying the VicJr. is/would be faster all else being equal ?

Giving up a little low end (get traction) and make it up on the big end

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

On my car in the 1/4 mile yes. The conclusion I came to on this test is that it is still about the combination. A small converter and a poor gear and/or heavy car would be a real pig with the Victor Jr.. I would say it is generally true that I would not use a Victor Jr. unless I had 3000 RPM stall converter or larger and the appropriate gear. Furthermore any converter 3500 or larger on a 6 liter or larger is Victor Jr. territory.

For me this works.

3pedals

iTrader: (3)

so it was showing some detonation and you had to remove a couple degrees of timing, did you try leave in that 2 degrees, and maybe even adding another degree at points below torque peak?(4500ish)?
If it will take it without knocking, I think this will perk up the low end response. Its worth a try.

billyflantos

iTrader: (6)

thats it in a nutshell...my car slowed down a hundreth of a second and a half of a mph going from a victor jr to a rpm...and if i had a straight drive street car i would prefer the rpm over the jr just for low rpm power #'s....

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

I remembered what you said and I did try that. It made no measurable difference in my car.

I also tried a 4 hole spacer to try to bring the 60' times around. I made no difference down low and lost a about .3 MPH.

With the Victor Jr. the car was slower for the first 330'. After that it got faster.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

I heard a few clicks at WOT again today, so I pulled two more degrees of timing out down to 27 total. It could be in my head but it feels even stronger now. This car is really running great. I am eager to hit the track on Wednesday if my schedule works out. The D/A should be about 1200 if the forecast holds out. Not record breaking weather, but very nice.

Doug G

Crossing fingers for you

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

I need to fix the 4l60 in my 94 gmc, it lost first and takes off in second, but after I fix it I will try to install the limited slip carrier and see how it does before I go to the much needed rpm. Just use the Vic jr since I had it laying around.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

A few things to note about going from the Performer RPM to the Victor Jr. My car wanted 4 sizes larger jets, 5 sizes larger squirter nozzles and 4 degrees less timing(27 total with the Victor Jr. vs. 31 with the Performer RPM). Another consideration is that when I jetted the carb up to achieve the desired WOT AFR with the Victor Jr., the cruise AFR became too rich (12.5). So, in order to get my cruise AFR back in the 14s, I had to drill the PVCR from .040 to .051 and then jet the primaries back down 4 sized. It is hard to say if this is just my car, or if it will generally hold true for most cars. But, it is likely that it will required more work to get the carb tuned on the Victor Jr. than with the Performer RPM. I can see this being a consideration for some.

Paul57

Thanks for sharing all the details. You are the first person to perform a real world test like that...that I have seen, anyway. I have read that primary jets would not affect cruise AFR because you are still in the idle circuit because of such little throttle opening. Obviously that isn't accurate all the time either. Any conclusions on the ET's??