Top 10 reasons I ditched EFI
12-23-2011, 05:44 PM
#43
When I built my car, there was no engine in it. I picked up an LQ9 complete top to bottom. Here are some reasons why I went with a carb:
1. drive by wire/ electronic gas pedal issues
2. anti theft programming/VATS
3. fuel pump
4. CEL/SES trips
5. needs tune each time a mod is made
6. car was already set up for carb (tank, lines, throttle cable etc.)
7. giant wiring harness I could get rid of
8. EFI does not necessarily make more power
9. Holley carb new for less than $300
10. Been there done that with Megasquirt
Did I mention it needs tune each time a mod is made?
1. drive by wire/ electronic gas pedal issues
2. anti theft programming/VATS
3. fuel pump
4. CEL/SES trips
5. needs tune each time a mod is made
6. car was already set up for carb (tank, lines, throttle cable etc.)
7. giant wiring harness I could get rid of
8. EFI does not necessarily make more power
9. Holley carb new for less than $300
10. Been there done that with Megasquirt
Did I mention it needs tune each time a mod is made?
12-24-2011, 02:52 PM
#47
I am still trying to figure out if I will lsx my TA and how ( efi or carb w/wideband) but that gives me and any one else in this thread something to scratch their head about. I dont recognize your location are you outside the US ?
I am thinking cheaper and less complicated way to get up and running and can always sell the carb setup off and go efi later once everything else is shaken out....
I am thinking cheaper and less complicated way to get up and running and can always sell the carb setup off and go efi later once everything else is shaken out....
12-24-2011, 03:56 PM
#48
I'm debating for a n/a build I want for my GTA.
Car is only gonna be run on nice days, don't care about mpg, cold starts,dd or pleasantness to drive. Gonna have manual steering and rolldown windows. I got big *** arms so manual steering don't bother me.
I'm debating on Efi or carb.
I can get a pullout with all the Efi stuff, but I will need injectors, improved intake/tb.since it will be max
effort. And any accompanying accessories and electronics for a SD tune.
Seems like it's 50/50 right now. Carb will no doubt be easier to tune. Still need pc for the Msd.
Idk I'm leaning towards the carb at this point. But if I was qualified enough to tune my PCM, I would go with that.
Car is only gonna be run on nice days, don't care about mpg, cold starts,dd or pleasantness to drive. Gonna have manual steering and rolldown windows. I got big *** arms so manual steering don't bother me.
I'm debating on Efi or carb.
I can get a pullout with all the Efi stuff, but I will need injectors, improved intake/tb.since it will be max
effort. And any accompanying accessories and electronics for a SD tune.
Seems like it's 50/50 right now. Carb will no doubt be easier to tune. Still need pc for the Msd.
Idk I'm leaning towards the carb at this point. But if I was qualified enough to tune my PCM, I would go with that.
12-24-2011, 07:12 PM
#49
If you are really strapped for $$ just know that you can unplug the MSD from the car and hook it up to your home computer to tune it. The software can be downloaded free over the internet. All you really need is a serial to USB adapter (under $10 from Amazon) and a 12 V power source. I used a plugin adapter off an old radio /cell phone charger. You could probably do it in your local library if need be.
Also know that none of the drawbacks you mention are really that bad. You really only notice them if you are looking for them.
Also know that none of the drawbacks you mention are really that bad. You really only notice them if you are looking for them.
12-25-2011, 11:40 AM
#51
If you are really strapped for $$ just know that you can unplug the MSD from the car and hook it up to your home computer to tune it. The software can be downloaded free over the internet. All you really need is a serial to USB adapter (under $10 from Amazon) and a 12 V power source. I used a plugin adapter off an old radio /cell phone charger. You could probably do it in your local library if need be.
Also know that none of the drawbacks you mention are really that bad. You really only notice them if you are looking for them.
Also know that none of the drawbacks you mention are really that bad. You really only notice them if you are looking for them.
Sup Zane,long time no see. I will need your skills and help to get it running
Why would you have to buy another laptop to tune with? Once it's tuned you no longer need the laptop. 
12-25-2011, 07:16 PM
#56
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When I built my car, there was no engine in it. I picked up an LQ9 complete top to bottom. Here are some reasons why I went with a carb:
1. drive by wire/ electronic gas pedal issues - i wasnt aware all efi systems were DBW
2. anti theft programming/VATS - i wasnt aware this was a difficult issue to resolve.
3. fuel pump - OH LAWDY, A NEW FUEL PUMP AND REGULATOR!?
4. CEL/SES trips - so the engine telling you something is wrong is a bad thing?
5. needs tune each time a mod is made - and a carb doesnt? more power=more air. dont you need more fuel for that air?
6. car was already set up for carb (tank, lines, throttle cable etc.)
7. giant wiring harness I could get rid of
8. EFI does not necessarily make more power - its proven to make more power and torque in part throttle.
9. Holley carb new for less than $300 - stock pcm is less than 100, and since when can you get a GOOD holley that'll make good power for that price? you cant.
10. Been there done that with Megasquirt
Did I mention it needs tune each time a mod is made?
1. drive by wire/ electronic gas pedal issues - i wasnt aware all efi systems were DBW
2. anti theft programming/VATS - i wasnt aware this was a difficult issue to resolve.
3. fuel pump - OH LAWDY, A NEW FUEL PUMP AND REGULATOR!?
4. CEL/SES trips - so the engine telling you something is wrong is a bad thing?
5. needs tune each time a mod is made - and a carb doesnt? more power=more air. dont you need more fuel for that air?
6. car was already set up for carb (tank, lines, throttle cable etc.)
7. giant wiring harness I could get rid of
8. EFI does not necessarily make more power - its proven to make more power and torque in part throttle.
9. Holley carb new for less than $300 - stock pcm is less than 100, and since when can you get a GOOD holley that'll make good power for that price? you cant.
10. Been there done that with Megasquirt
Did I mention it needs tune each time a mod is made?
12-25-2011, 08:02 PM
#57
I like when guys get bored in other sections and just happen to see a topic and feel the need to drop their two cents in. Lol
More power under part throttle that some or most Carbs, but there are units that most carb ignorant guys have not seen, and still do not need a dyno then or 500$ software to attempt to tune. They both have ups and downs, we do not need **** stirring in here.
More power under part throttle that some or most Carbs, but there are units that most carb ignorant guys have not seen, and still do not need a dyno then or 500$ software to attempt to tune. They both have ups and downs, we do not need **** stirring in here.
12-25-2011, 08:04 PM
#58
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what ALL of you carb guys seem to forget is that when it comes down to it, EFI is simple.
if you're making less than 450rwhp you can use stock injectors.
you can buy a 300 dollar intake manifold and throttle body setup that will make 450whp.
the carb may be "cheaper" in the short run, but MPG's pay off.
the reliability of modern EFI components is OUTSTANDING. many components will outlast the vehicle they're in.
most efi components and or electrical issues can be diagnosed with a DVOM and some logic. its really not complicated, and these things arent to be feared. they'll get your vehicle down the track reliably and consistently, and once you have some basic knowledge of the components you'll be able to diagnose any electrical issue with any car you own.
ex - what happens when your power window stops working on your daily driver? do you just grumble and wish you had a clue how to fix it? do you replace it with a manual window regulator? take it to a shop? in reality, its an issue that would take 10 minutes to diagnose.
as for tuning, if you can PROPERLY tune a carb, you can properly tune EFI. different tools, same principle.
if you're making less than 450rwhp you can use stock injectors.
you can buy a 300 dollar intake manifold and throttle body setup that will make 450whp.
the carb may be "cheaper" in the short run, but MPG's pay off.
the reliability of modern EFI components is OUTSTANDING. many components will outlast the vehicle they're in.
most efi components and or electrical issues can be diagnosed with a DVOM and some logic. its really not complicated, and these things arent to be feared. they'll get your vehicle down the track reliably and consistently, and once you have some basic knowledge of the components you'll be able to diagnose any electrical issue with any car you own.
ex - what happens when your power window stops working on your daily driver? do you just grumble and wish you had a clue how to fix it? do you replace it with a manual window regulator? take it to a shop? in reality, its an issue that would take 10 minutes to diagnose.
as for tuning, if you can PROPERLY tune a carb, you can properly tune EFI. different tools, same principle.
12-25-2011, 08:11 PM
#59
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I like when guys get bored in other sections and just happen to see a topic and feel the need to drop their two cents in. Lol
More power under part throttle that some or most Carbs, but there are units that most carb ignorant guys have not seen, and still do not need a dyno then or 500$ software to attempt to tune. They both have ups and downs, we do not need **** stirring in here.
More power under part throttle that some or most Carbs, but there are units that most carb ignorant guys have not seen, and still do not need a dyno then or 500$ software to attempt to tune. They both have ups and downs, we do not need **** stirring in here.
now im carb ignorant? LOL. you have no clue, buddy.
a carburetor will NEVER atomize or deliver fuel in the manner EFI does, and that is most critical in part throttle gas mileage as well as horsepower and torque in the same part throttle ranges. since when do you need a dyno to tune any engine? a dyno simply makes tuning and comparing EASIER.
you "efi ignorant" folk will never get it. i still fail to see ANY ups to a carburetor on an engine that came from the factory with EFI. its all right there. you're simply failing to use the tools that have been given to you.
12-25-2011, 09:37 PM
#60
Lots of DERP in here all of a sudden. Notice he didn't quote my list. It's hard to argue with. His head might explode if he knew I have two Camaros, one EFI and one carb. MPG? Really? Who gives a poop?
Because racecar. butthead.
Because racecar. butthead.
Last edited by 1970camaroRS; 12-25-2011 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Wow...I'm a mean drunk.