69importkilla

iTrader: (2)

So I'm getting what I think is pinging in 5th and 6th gear. I've tried running 93 octane with no success. I'm using the MSD 6010 controller and pill #1.

Doesn't make any sense. The car is over half the weight of the truck the engine was pulled out of. Maybe a different heat range plug? Any suggestions would be helpful!!

Something I noticed this morning is it doesn't do it when the engine is cold only when hot.

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

Do you have a MAP sensor plugged in? If not, it is applying full vacuum advance all the time. It is only 6° on the 6010 box, but if that goes on top of the 35° static timing then it really adds up.

Try running with a lap top plugged in and see what timing the box is actually putting in when it pings.

Carb tune can affect pinging also. How sure are you about your carb tune, have you check AFR with a wideband?

And detonation is going to be more prevalent when the engine is hot.

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

Here is a pretty good write up

http://www.progl.com/General/detonation.htm

69importkilla

iTrader: (2)

So I just hooked up the laptop and at idle i had 23 degrees advance. Not sure what that means in the overall scheme of things, but Im going to run it tomorrow with the laptop hooked up and see what its doing when the pinging happens.

And for the carb tune, I am not sure about it at all. Took it out of the box and installed it. I dont have a wideband to check AFR...

newschool72

iTrader: (12)

Pull up the MAP curve on the laptop. It should be showing advance of some kind. Zero it out and build a curve with the Base line chart ( not sure what it is called, the only other graph on the screen). Pull the pill out first.
It would help to know what you have ,but a good starting point would be something around 12-14* at cranking RPM, then ramp it up to around 28* by 2000. A dip of a couple degrees is a good idea at peak torque and that will be determined by the cam profile the engine is running. I like to have the dip last for about a thousand RPMs, then ramp back up to the max timing.
That is a very conservative # and there is a good chance the engine will want more peak timing, but the only way to figure that out is with some sort of repeatable testing. Drag strip or dyno. If it is pinging, back the timing off a couple degrees at a time. A good , but dangerous way to determine where the peak torque is, would be to set the timing straight across at , say 32*, and go for a blast, watching the tach . The RPM that the engine pings at should be the max torque RPM. Back the timing off in that RPM range a couple degrees. You now have a pretty good curve for your engine. You can move that curve up and down to find the best all around timing setup for your particular combo.
Be conservative and use caution while testing, or a new set of pistons may be in your future.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

First things first. Tell me about your engine. Which engine? which heads? how much compression? which intake? which carburetor? what is your cruise RPM in those gears? and lets see a screen shot of your timing curve.

69importkilla

iTrader: (2)

Yeah sorry guys I'm sure the engine information would've helped.

Its a bone stock LQ4 out of a 04 Suburban. The intake is a Edelbrock Performer RPM and the carb is a Holley 650 DP out of the box.The transmission is a 6-speed, 4:11's in the rear.

I'm having trouble around 2000rpm. I can get a screen shot in a bit. At this RPM the timing is at 30 degrees, with 6 coming in from the MAP curve. I do not have the MAP sensor installed. I've also tried running 93 in it, but that didnt help either. I seem to notice most of the trouble in 5th and 6th gear. Maybe I just cant hear it in the lower gears?

Prorac1

iTrader: (4)

As stated earlier, you have to zero the map table. That's probably where your ping is coming from. Eric L

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Low RPM and stick shifts can put a lot of load on the engine, especially when you roll on the throttle. You will need to get a MAP sensor if you ever want to get any kind of fuel mileage.

But, until then, put in a custom timing curve and see if that cures your problem. Try a timing curve like this:

0 to 300 RPM 8 degrees
300 to 2400 RPM 16 degrees
2400 to 4000 RPM ramping from 16 degrees to 30 degrees
4000 to Infinity 30 degrees

See if that works for you.

newschool72

iTrader: (12)

Just zero the map out completely and start from scratch with the base line tune. With a stock LQ4, I would run about 18* at idle, ramp up to about 27* by 3000, carry 27* to about 3500, then drop down to 25* by 3700, carry 25* to 4000, then tapper back up to 27* by 4200 and carry 27* all the way out. That should fix the ping by knocking 4*-5* out at 2000 and give you a decent curve for power. Im pretty sure the stock LQ4 is going to make peak torque around 3700-4000, so the dip in the timing curve should be about right.
Don't move the MAP table from 0* until you get a MAP sensor, then ask someone else how to set up the MAP, like SpeedTigger, because Im still getting my head wrapped around the whole map thing, LOL.
I don't see any reason to trouble shoot the curve in the no 1 pill and you should just pull it out and throw it away. Use the lap top for all your tuning and throw all the chips away or give them to someone that doesn't have a lap top.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

I see some people talk about dipping the timing at the torque peak like you mention above. Have you ever actually tested it to see if it increases the power output?

newschool72

iTrader: (12)

LOL ! you and I were mapping a timing curve at the same time for the OP. He should try them both and see which one does the best. Im a fan of the timing dip at peak torque to help with piston speed in the max efficiency area of the curve. Peak torque will always need less timing because the engine is at peak efficiency so why make the piston fight against an early ignition in that range. It may or may not add any HP or TQ, but should always allow the engine to rev cleaner and that can help acceleration , whether it show up on a dyno graph as more power or not, IMO.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

You also answered my question to you as I was asking it LOL.

newschool72

iTrader: (12)

I haven't done any testing to see if it makes a difference in real #s, but I built a lazy straight curve in the interest of time the last trip to the track and it was the slower of the 2 passes. I cant say it was the timing because I had trans issues that were getting worse, but the engine always feels crisper with the dip in place.

69importkilla

iTrader: (2)

Thanks guys so much for the help. I will try the suggestions today and test the car as long as the weather holds out.

I will follow up for sure!

69importkilla

iTrader: (2)

So here's the update.

Car is still making the same noise. Even with the new "map" and 93 octane, i'm still hearing some noise.

Side note, when first driving the car, at temperature, I dont hear anything. It seems only in 5th and 6th do I hear something after I have been driving for awhile.

Is there anything in the transmission that may cause a similar noise? I've listened to this enough that I cant point a finger at anything else.

Loosing my mind on this, I need some help!

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Post up a screen shot of your timing settings.

69importkilla

iTrader: (2)

I can get a screen shot when I get home. But I used your recommendations...

0 to 300 RPM 8 degrees
300 to 2400 RPM 16 degrees
2400 to 4000 RPM ramping from 16 degrees to 30 degrees
4000 to Infinity 30 degrees

Another note, I am getting this "sound" going downhill just as well. Heck I'm hardly even touching the gas....this is why I'm confused as too how it can be still pinging. Shouldn't this be happening under a load?

69importkilla

iTrader: (2)

*Update*

So I spent some time on the phone with the guys from D&D Performance. Apparently there was a TSB issued for viper transmission concerning noise in 5th and 6th gear. I explained the entire story and they seem to think this is what I'm experiencing. What seemed to convince them further was the fact the being in 5th going downhill, running reduced timing and 93 octane I shouldnt hear any pinging when lightly stepping on the throttle. They gave me a recommendation on what fluid to run so I'm going to try that route.

If anyone has any additional incite, I would love to hear it!

aslack99

Definitely doesn't sound like detonation if you are hearing it going down a hill with light throttle load.