suspension question for 67 camaro
12-27-2006, 01:09 PM
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suspension question for 67 camaro Hey, I got a 67 camaro RS/SS, 350 5.7 L, did some basic stuff to the engine, headers, exhaust, new carb (800 cfm), intake (air gap). Thinking about doing some suspension work, right now everything is pretty much stock, wondering if anyone had any ideas on what I should do (swaybars, shocks, control arms, etc)? Thanks
side note: Since I have installed my new carb, it really bogs off the line. Its fine once you get things going. Only when you are at a complete stop, then gun it, it bogs real bad. Any suggestions, I think i might be running it too rich. Thanks again.
side note: Since I have installed my new carb, it really bogs off the line. Its fine once you get things going. Only when you are at a complete stop, then gun it, it bogs real bad. Any suggestions, I think i might be running it too rich. Thanks again.
12-27-2006, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by LHSCub6
Hey, I got a 67 camaro RS/SS, 350 5.7 L, did some basic stuff to the engine, headers, exhaust, new carb (800 cfm), intake (air gap). Thinking about doing some suspension work, right now everything is pretty much stock, wondering if anyone had any ideas on what I should do (swaybars, shocks, control arms, etc)? Thanks
side note: Since I have installed my new carb, it really bogs off the line. Its fine once you get things going. Only when you are at a complete stop, then gun it, it bogs real bad. Any suggestions, I think i might be running it too rich. Thanks again.
side note: Since I have installed my new carb, it really bogs off the line. Its fine once you get things going. Only when you are at a complete stop, then gun it, it bogs real bad. Any suggestions, I think i might be running it too rich. Thanks again.
and for the bogging problem what type/model of carb do you have ?
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01-02-2007, 02:39 PM
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If your goal is to get the car to drive more like a modern car (i.e. not steer and handle like a dump truck), you are going to need to spend some money.
The biggest problem with these cars is the front suspension geometry is terrible. All the sway bars, springs and shocks in the world are not going to change that. They can firm up the ride enough that you no longer have any body roll at all, which will help grip, but the car will ride like crap. Also none of this will change the fact the factory steering box is junk. If you have power steering, it is so overboosted that there is practically no feedback at all.
There are a number of changes you can make to improve the car, but your goals and your budget are going to dictate what to do. It is possible to make these cars drive really well. On the '68 we have (my dad's car) we went with a full Hotchkis suspension like was mentioned with Edelbrock shocks and it was better, but the car still drove crappy by modern standards. We then did a Inisteer power rack and pinion conversion and this made a huge improvement. The final mod was tubular upper and lower control arms on the front suspension.
Now the car drives really well, but in all honesty we spent more than we would have to buy an aftermarket front subframe with a rack and pinion, coil overs, and full custom control arms and sway bars, plus a nice set of disk brakes. There are a number of companies that make them. While the subframe replacement is costly and very labor intensive (I assume you are doing the work), you will spend less in the long run and have a very nice package, plus it will drive like a modern car. It might sound like a bit much, but you will never regret it.
If your goals are much lower, you can probably just rebuild the whole front end with new parts, get a set of sway bars (front and rear), new shocks (anything is better than old worn out ones), and I would at least swap in a higher ratio steering box for some more feel.
As for your carb, there are a ton of things that can cause a bog. Being both lean and rich can cause it as can having too big a carb or having the secondaries kick in too quickly. Usually the bog off idle is the result of airflow stalling or not enough fuel. Unless I am mistaken the Edelbrock carb is a spread bore carb so the primaries are pretty small and should give very good off idle throttle response and around town drivability.
However on a mild engine if the secondaries kick in too quickly it could be too much air into the engine too fast, or there isn't enough fuel so it stumbles. Remember than on a carb, airflow (a pressure differencial) is what pulls fuel out of the carb, if the airflow stalls, there is no signal to pull fuel and the car will go lean. Opening the secondaries too fast will cause the airflow to slow and lose signal on a motor that can't use all the air. Try slowing down the opening of the secondaries. Unless you have your car totally miss tuned it probably isn't rich off the line, but I can't be sure. Do you smell raw gas or blow a ton of smoke when you nail it from a stop. It is also possible to be lean off idle and then be too rich on the top end if the tune is off. Not to insult you, but is the carb adjusted correctly? I would have a hard time believing that a new carb out of the box is jetted too far off of what you would need for your car unless it had been mis-tuned. You shouldn't have to mess with anything in the carb (jetting) out of the box on what sounds like a mild street engine. I am no carb guru but I would start by calling the tech line of the carb manufacturer and tell them about your problem and your combination and they should be able to help you get it dialed in.
Another thing to consider is making sure that your timing is correct (you mentioned changing intakes, which requires pulling the distributor), if you are not getting enough timing (retarded) that will cause the car to fall on its face too... This can really be amplified by having a mild set of highway gears or if you have an automatic and you have a stock converter in it. Both will cause the car to really bog down if there is not enough timing dialed in. Its not just static timing either, you need to look at how quickly it is advancing.
There is a ton of stuff to consider when it comes to tuning a carb and ignition on an old car and usually every time you change one thing you need to tweak the tune.
Good luck with the car
The biggest problem with these cars is the front suspension geometry is terrible. All the sway bars, springs and shocks in the world are not going to change that. They can firm up the ride enough that you no longer have any body roll at all, which will help grip, but the car will ride like crap. Also none of this will change the fact the factory steering box is junk. If you have power steering, it is so overboosted that there is practically no feedback at all.
There are a number of changes you can make to improve the car, but your goals and your budget are going to dictate what to do. It is possible to make these cars drive really well. On the '68 we have (my dad's car) we went with a full Hotchkis suspension like was mentioned with Edelbrock shocks and it was better, but the car still drove crappy by modern standards. We then did a Inisteer power rack and pinion conversion and this made a huge improvement. The final mod was tubular upper and lower control arms on the front suspension.
Now the car drives really well, but in all honesty we spent more than we would have to buy an aftermarket front subframe with a rack and pinion, coil overs, and full custom control arms and sway bars, plus a nice set of disk brakes. There are a number of companies that make them. While the subframe replacement is costly and very labor intensive (I assume you are doing the work), you will spend less in the long run and have a very nice package, plus it will drive like a modern car. It might sound like a bit much, but you will never regret it.
If your goals are much lower, you can probably just rebuild the whole front end with new parts, get a set of sway bars (front and rear), new shocks (anything is better than old worn out ones), and I would at least swap in a higher ratio steering box for some more feel.
As for your carb, there are a ton of things that can cause a bog. Being both lean and rich can cause it as can having too big a carb or having the secondaries kick in too quickly. Usually the bog off idle is the result of airflow stalling or not enough fuel. Unless I am mistaken the Edelbrock carb is a spread bore carb so the primaries are pretty small and should give very good off idle throttle response and around town drivability.
However on a mild engine if the secondaries kick in too quickly it could be too much air into the engine too fast, or there isn't enough fuel so it stumbles. Remember than on a carb, airflow (a pressure differencial) is what pulls fuel out of the carb, if the airflow stalls, there is no signal to pull fuel and the car will go lean. Opening the secondaries too fast will cause the airflow to slow and lose signal on a motor that can't use all the air. Try slowing down the opening of the secondaries. Unless you have your car totally miss tuned it probably isn't rich off the line, but I can't be sure. Do you smell raw gas or blow a ton of smoke when you nail it from a stop. It is also possible to be lean off idle and then be too rich on the top end if the tune is off. Not to insult you, but is the carb adjusted correctly? I would have a hard time believing that a new carb out of the box is jetted too far off of what you would need for your car unless it had been mis-tuned. You shouldn't have to mess with anything in the carb (jetting) out of the box on what sounds like a mild street engine. I am no carb guru but I would start by calling the tech line of the carb manufacturer and tell them about your problem and your combination and they should be able to help you get it dialed in.
Another thing to consider is making sure that your timing is correct (you mentioned changing intakes, which requires pulling the distributor), if you are not getting enough timing (retarded) that will cause the car to fall on its face too... This can really be amplified by having a mild set of highway gears or if you have an automatic and you have a stock converter in it. Both will cause the car to really bog down if there is not enough timing dialed in. Its not just static timing either, you need to look at how quickly it is advancing.
There is a ton of stuff to consider when it comes to tuning a carb and ignition on an old car and usually every time you change one thing you need to tweak the tune.
Good luck with the car
01-04-2007, 10:57 PM
#10
Originally Posted by bigdcustoms
put a smaller carb on there..its runnunig too rich...or just drop the primaries down a few jet sizez...
i concurr....try a 650 at most 700
and for suspension, on my 67, i'm running:
-Weld in Subframe connectors
-Bump steering (used for road racing normally)
-QA1 adjustable coilovers
-global west tubular upper/lower control arms
-and multi leaf springs
and i think hotchkis swaybars..can't remember now since it was almost 4 years ago i did all this
brakes:
-willwood 6 piston discs front 4 piston back
excellent combo! i love it! the stance is perfect, and it will attack any corner you throw at it!
or you could always go for a 4 link and IRS
oh, and my 350 is putting out 420hp with 10.1:1 comp and i'm running a 650 double pumper
01-23-2007, 01:18 PM
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I have a 67' with a fully built 350. It's 40 over, 10.5:1, 510 lift cam and fully ported heads and intake among many other things not relivent to the topic....650 holley. Runing that 800 carb is the worst thing you could do for that engine. You will get much better over all power with a carb no bigger than a 650. I tried a 790 holley at first on mine and it was too much, an 800cfm on a stock, even mildly built engine, is WAAAY to much. Hope that helps.
01-23-2007, 07:47 PM
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Yes, but tiny primary, big secondary. Makes a big difference.
As for making yours work, I only know holly, and you can sometimes work with squirters and progressive linkage to make it run better, don't know edelbrock, sorry.
Listen to the guys, if able, get the correct carb.
As for making yours work, I only know holly, and you can sometimes work with squirters and progressive linkage to make it run better, don't know edelbrock, sorry.
Listen to the guys, if able, get the correct carb.
