'70 Nova LY6/TH400 6.0VVT
10-03-2011, 04:21 PM
#202
Well, heck. I started designing a new set of adapters based on the Dougs adapter positioning, which flips the mounts right-side-up and moves the engine back 1/2". As I was working through the design, I started to realize I wasn't really having fun any more and I was starting to dread standing in front of the mill to cut yet another set of adapters. I thought about how little time I've had to work on the car and what I've been able to accomplish since doing the Guldstrand mod - not much. Out of frustration with my lack of time, I broke down and put the order in for a set of SK100 adapters. I really want to work on other things and have this mounting issue over with. Assuming these solve my header clearance issues and don't cause other interferences, the plan is to leave the engine in an unlifted position, notch as needed for the alternator, and cross my fingers that I can come up with something for the/a low mount compressor. Hopefully I can get these by the weekend and give 'em a shot.
10-03-2011, 05:25 PM
#203
TECH Apprentice
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You know what's funny, I realized that those adapters were back ordered when I placed my order for them a couple of months ago. Didn't take long to get though, pretty sure it was only about a week.
10-03-2011, 05:57 PM
#204
I had heard they might be a b/o item, so I spoke with Summit and they called Dougs while I was on the phone. We verified they'd received my order, the parts were in stock, and they expected to ship out tomorrow. That's a lot faster than I would get another set of adapters made, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.
*EDIT* Got an email with tracking number. Ordered Sunday, arriving Tuesday - now that's speedy!
*EDIT* Got an email with tracking number. Ordered Sunday, arriving Tuesday - now that's speedy!
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 10-04-2011 at 10:25 AM.
10-04-2011, 05:05 PM
#207
Bandit I have a question or two or three for you. You seem like the suspension guru. I have a situation with my swap. Before the swap my rear tried to squat with brand new 5 leaf springs so I had a leaf added which helped but jacked my car up a bit. The front coil springs were excessively too high on ride height so I cut one round out and it seemed to set the front correct, to my liking anyways. Now after the swap it seems the front squats lower than before which I assume is taking weight off of the rear causing it to ride high like back in the 80's. I like the height of the front but not the back. If I soften up the rear springs a bit, will this transfer some of the weight from the front to the back to level out the car or should I stiffen up the front to throw more weight to the back and leave the extra leaf in? The reason I added the leaf in all reality was to combat the mis-aligned tailpipes a local yocal bent for me. I now have the Flowmaster exhaust system which should clear just fine even if it does squat in the rear. What method would be preferred to raise the front and lower the back? Would dropping the back really make the front come up? I would like to get my ride sort of close to level before I fab up or buy the CalTracs. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
10-04-2011, 05:50 PM
#208
Thanks guys for the congrats. The 16th is the big day when I hit the five year mark exactly. It seems like only yesterday I was hearing those words: you have cancer. I am very grateful to be around.
tsnow, I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm a suspension guru, but I can tell you a few things. Swapping springs in the front or the rear will not have much effect on the opposite end's static ride height. For a given suspension geometry, the weight that resides on the springs when the car is sitting still roughly on level ground is a function of the CG location only. Sure there is a small effect from the tilt of the car, but it doesn't amount to much until you have a very gross mismatch. Park your car on a slight incline and you'll see the ride height doesn't really shift much from front to rear. I'm not sure why your rear end came up - it may be your perception since the front is lower now, it could be due to a lighter transmission (CG now further forward), how full the gas tank is, or how much the springs have settled since you last raised the rear of the car. If you like the height of the front, I would leave it alone and work with your rear springs to dial in the rear height. It should have no or very minimal effect on the front. That all said, don't confuse spring rates and ride heights. You still want your ride rates reasonably matched front to rear. Did you use OEM replacement front springs or did you get higher rate (stiffer) springs? If you have a close to stock spring rate up front, I would pull the extra leaf in the rear to get back to a close to stock rate in the rear.
tsnow, I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm a suspension guru, but I can tell you a few things. Swapping springs in the front or the rear will not have much effect on the opposite end's static ride height. For a given suspension geometry, the weight that resides on the springs when the car is sitting still roughly on level ground is a function of the CG location only. Sure there is a small effect from the tilt of the car, but it doesn't amount to much until you have a very gross mismatch. Park your car on a slight incline and you'll see the ride height doesn't really shift much from front to rear. I'm not sure why your rear end came up - it may be your perception since the front is lower now, it could be due to a lighter transmission (CG now further forward), how full the gas tank is, or how much the springs have settled since you last raised the rear of the car. If you like the height of the front, I would leave it alone and work with your rear springs to dial in the rear height. It should have no or very minimal effect on the front. That all said, don't confuse spring rates and ride heights. You still want your ride rates reasonably matched front to rear. Did you use OEM replacement front springs or did you get higher rate (stiffer) springs? If you have a close to stock spring rate up front, I would pull the extra leaf in the rear to get back to a close to stock rate in the rear.
10-04-2011, 08:51 PM
#209
If I soften up the rear springs a bit, will this transfer some of the weight from the front to the back to level out the car or should I stiffen up the front to throw more weight to the back and leave the extra leaf in? What method would be preferred to raise the front and lower the back? Would dropping the back really make the front come up?
10-04-2011, 09:16 PM
#210
Thanks guys for the congrats. The 16th is the big day when I hit the five year mark exactly. It seems like only yesterday I was hearing those words: you have cancer. I am very grateful to be around.
tsnow, I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm a suspension guru, but I can tell you a few things. Swapping springs in the front or the rear will not have much effect on the opposite end's static ride height. For a given suspension geometry, the weight that resides on the springs when the car is sitting still roughly on level ground is a function of the CG location only. Sure there is a small effect from the tilt of the car, but it doesn't amount to much until you have a very gross mismatch. Park your car on a slight incline and you'll see the ride height doesn't really shift much from front to rear. I'm not sure why your rear end came up - it may be your perception since the front is lower now, it could be due to a lighter transmission (CG now further forward), how full the gas tank is, or how much the springs have settled since you last raised the rear of the car. If you like the height of the front, I would leave it alone and work with your rear springs to dial in the rear height. It should have no or very minimal effect on the front. That all said, don't confuse spring rates and ride heights. You still want your ride rates reasonably matched front to rear. Did you use OEM replacement front springs or did you get higher rate (stiffer) springs? If you have a close to stock spring rate up front, I would pull the extra leaf in the rear to get back to a close to stock rate in the rear.
tsnow, I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm a suspension guru, but I can tell you a few things. Swapping springs in the front or the rear will not have much effect on the opposite end's static ride height. For a given suspension geometry, the weight that resides on the springs when the car is sitting still roughly on level ground is a function of the CG location only. Sure there is a small effect from the tilt of the car, but it doesn't amount to much until you have a very gross mismatch. Park your car on a slight incline and you'll see the ride height doesn't really shift much from front to rear. I'm not sure why your rear end came up - it may be your perception since the front is lower now, it could be due to a lighter transmission (CG now further forward), how full the gas tank is, or how much the springs have settled since you last raised the rear of the car. If you like the height of the front, I would leave it alone and work with your rear springs to dial in the rear height. It should have no or very minimal effect on the front. That all said, don't confuse spring rates and ride heights. You still want your ride rates reasonably matched front to rear. Did you use OEM replacement front springs or did you get higher rate (stiffer) springs? If you have a close to stock spring rate up front, I would pull the extra leaf in the rear to get back to a close to stock rate in the rear.
10-05-2011, 10:49 AM
#211
I'll head over there and see what you found.
Update: Last night the Dougs plates arrived. I lifted the engine and swapped them in. The only issue I had was having to grind a small edge of the "hump" on the Energy Suspension backing plates for them to sit flat. It was very minor, although something Dougs could have easily prevented in thier design. Otherwise I am very happy with the adapters. The mounts lined up with the frame stands and I was able to bolt things up without issue. I was happy to see that even at 1/2" back, the engine just barely clears the AC suitcase (about 1/8" clearance at worst). I didn't have time to try out the headers or steering, so I'll just keep my fingers crossed until I can get to it. I have lost hope for the Trailblazer AC compressor in my car; the mounts are too far forward on the block and now right-side-up, so they interfere with the back of the compressor. If this engine mounting position works out, I will measure to see if a SD7H15 or other compressor can fit down low running off the 6 rib belt with a notch in the frame.
Update: Last night the Dougs plates arrived. I lifted the engine and swapped them in. The only issue I had was having to grind a small edge of the "hump" on the Energy Suspension backing plates for them to sit flat. It was very minor, although something Dougs could have easily prevented in thier design. Otherwise I am very happy with the adapters. The mounts lined up with the frame stands and I was able to bolt things up without issue. I was happy to see that even at 1/2" back, the engine just barely clears the AC suitcase (about 1/8" clearance at worst). I didn't have time to try out the headers or steering, so I'll just keep my fingers crossed until I can get to it. I have lost hope for the Trailblazer AC compressor in my car; the mounts are too far forward on the block and now right-side-up, so they interfere with the back of the compressor. If this engine mounting position works out, I will measure to see if a SD7H15 or other compressor can fit down low running off the 6 rib belt with a notch in the frame.
10-09-2011, 10:22 PM
#214
Here are the Dougs adapters, SK100, as they arrived to me direct from the manufacturer. They came with hardware (eight countersunk screws for the block and six hex screws for the mounts). One detail I noticed immediately was an angle ground into the front lower corner, block side of each mount. On the driver's side this helped clear a boss in teh block, but I'm not sure what it's for on the passenger side.
Here you can see the holes give you the option of 1/2" or 1-1/4" setback. The third hole is also 1/2" below the block mounting holes. I am using the 1/2" setback position.
One of the first things I noticed was the adapters interfere with the hump on the Energy Suspension mounts. This would be a simple thing for Dougs to acomodate, but not all mounts (especially OEMs) have this hump.
To get it to clear, I ground the hump down on my old backing plates. This took all of a half second with the angle grinder.
I was very pleased when they bolted up and the engine dropped in without a problem. The frame stands lined up perfectly.
In this side view you can see the Dougs SK100 1/2" setback position puts the front machined face of the block about 1/2" behind the front face of the subframe crossmember. With my Autokraft copy adapters, the faces were pretty much even.
Here you can see I have very little clearance between the cylinder head and the AC suitcase, but it does fit. The closest point is a rib on the lower suitcase mounting ear.
And still plenty of clearance around the passenger side headers.
The drivers side headers now clear, but just barely. In these pictures the gasket is not installed, but I did try slipping it in and I have somewhere between 1/16 and 1/32 clearance at the pitman arm. I may need to put a small dent there to prevent contact.
The one thing I didn't take pictures of is the steering. It still contacts the pan on the driver's side, with less than a paper thickness of spacing at the steering stop. Again I hope I'm just toed out right now, but if not I will just limit the steering a little.
All in all I am happy I went this route. I saved myself some time buying the Dougs adapters and I think the position will work. Most of all I'm relieved to have this figured out so I can forge ahead. I've started mapping out the notch for the alternator and I have an idea for the compressor. Next step will be pulling the engine for cutting & welding.
Here you can see the holes give you the option of 1/2" or 1-1/4" setback. The third hole is also 1/2" below the block mounting holes. I am using the 1/2" setback position.
One of the first things I noticed was the adapters interfere with the hump on the Energy Suspension mounts. This would be a simple thing for Dougs to acomodate, but not all mounts (especially OEMs) have this hump.
To get it to clear, I ground the hump down on my old backing plates. This took all of a half second with the angle grinder.
I was very pleased when they bolted up and the engine dropped in without a problem. The frame stands lined up perfectly.
In this side view you can see the Dougs SK100 1/2" setback position puts the front machined face of the block about 1/2" behind the front face of the subframe crossmember. With my Autokraft copy adapters, the faces were pretty much even.
Here you can see I have very little clearance between the cylinder head and the AC suitcase, but it does fit. The closest point is a rib on the lower suitcase mounting ear.
And still plenty of clearance around the passenger side headers.
The drivers side headers now clear, but just barely. In these pictures the gasket is not installed, but I did try slipping it in and I have somewhere between 1/16 and 1/32 clearance at the pitman arm. I may need to put a small dent there to prevent contact.
The one thing I didn't take pictures of is the steering. It still contacts the pan on the driver's side, with less than a paper thickness of spacing at the steering stop. Again I hope I'm just toed out right now, but if not I will just limit the steering a little.
All in all I am happy I went this route. I saved myself some time buying the Dougs adapters and I think the position will work. Most of all I'm relieved to have this figured out so I can forge ahead. I've started mapping out the notch for the alternator and I have an idea for the compressor. Next step will be pulling the engine for cutting & welding.
10-09-2011, 10:49 PM
#215
TECH Apprentice
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Clint I'm glad those dougs adapters worked out for you! I dealt with the same issue of grinding off the hump and also thought it weird that dougs wouldn't make the adjustment for that.
Those edges are super sharp on the plates though, I cut a big chunk off of my knuckle because of it and I have a nice scar now
Those edges are super sharp on the plates though, I cut a big chunk off of my knuckle because of it and I have a nice scar now
10-09-2011, 11:31 PM
#217
To all:
Next week I celebrate five years since I was diagnosed with cancer. In October 2006, doctors told me I had Hodgkin’s lymphoma and it had spread throughout my upper body. I was treated effectively with chemotherapy and radiation. Today I am thriving. Cancer changed my life in many ways, but perhaps the most remarkable thing is how cancer did not change my life. Despite the illness, I have been able to start a family, pursue a successful career, and live life with family and friends enjoying the everyday moments that really matter.
If there is one thing I’ve learned about life from cancer it is to appreciate the things that ultimately hold value. It is all too easy to get caught up in the day to day. We lose track of family and friends. We put off seeing the doctor. We get angry over something inconsequential. We spend the night in front of the TV instead of holding a conversation. Life is too short. There are too many things to be appreciated. Cancer helped me realize that, but I know you don’t need a life-threatening disease to know what’s important. So take this message as a simple call to action – stop what you are doing, think for a moment about what’s important in your life, and ask yourself what it is that you’re going to do right now, today to enjoy and appreciate it. Don’t just think about it – do it.
I am still alive today because countless volunteers, researchers, and doctors have fought hard to keep me here. I support the American Cancer Society and the fight for a world with more birthdays. The American Cancer Society funds groundbreaking cancer research, provides up-to-date cancer information and education, advocates for public policies that benefit the community, and provides services that improve the quality of life for patients and their families. We all know someone who has been affected by cancer. Please help me create a world with more birthdays by visiting my webpage, reading my story and donating to this incredible organization: http://main.acsevents.org/goto/ClintonJudd
You make a living by what you get; you make a life by what you give. - Winston Churchill
Please feel free to forward a link to this post. I would like to reach as many as I can.
Thank you,
Clinton Judd
Next week I celebrate five years since I was diagnosed with cancer. In October 2006, doctors told me I had Hodgkin’s lymphoma and it had spread throughout my upper body. I was treated effectively with chemotherapy and radiation. Today I am thriving. Cancer changed my life in many ways, but perhaps the most remarkable thing is how cancer did not change my life. Despite the illness, I have been able to start a family, pursue a successful career, and live life with family and friends enjoying the everyday moments that really matter.
If there is one thing I’ve learned about life from cancer it is to appreciate the things that ultimately hold value. It is all too easy to get caught up in the day to day. We lose track of family and friends. We put off seeing the doctor. We get angry over something inconsequential. We spend the night in front of the TV instead of holding a conversation. Life is too short. There are too many things to be appreciated. Cancer helped me realize that, but I know you don’t need a life-threatening disease to know what’s important. So take this message as a simple call to action – stop what you are doing, think for a moment about what’s important in your life, and ask yourself what it is that you’re going to do right now, today to enjoy and appreciate it. Don’t just think about it – do it.
I am still alive today because countless volunteers, researchers, and doctors have fought hard to keep me here. I support the American Cancer Society and the fight for a world with more birthdays. The American Cancer Society funds groundbreaking cancer research, provides up-to-date cancer information and education, advocates for public policies that benefit the community, and provides services that improve the quality of life for patients and their families. We all know someone who has been affected by cancer. Please help me create a world with more birthdays by visiting my webpage, reading my story and donating to this incredible organization: http://main.acsevents.org/goto/ClintonJudd
You make a living by what you get; you make a life by what you give. - Winston Churchill
Please feel free to forward a link to this post. I would like to reach as many as I can.
Thank you,
Clinton Judd
10-10-2011, 08:38 AM
#219
I am glad to hear you are moving forward with the swap. Once you get the mounts and crossmember taken care of it moves along pretty fast.
Once again congrats on the five year mark! Its amazing how a life-changing event makes you view things differently.
Once again congrats on the five year mark! Its amazing how a life-changing event makes you view things differently.