'70 Nova LY6/TH400 6.0VVT
08-26-2011, 04:45 PM
#181
Good luck with the engine move! I understand about doing it the way you want to. I will have to disagree on the extra load on the bearings and such though. The 6 rib belt runs at hardly any tension as compared to the old v-belts use to. For example, I have 1994 Chevrolet 1500 with the 5.7 that only has one belt and the A/C compressor is last in line to be driven and it has run non stop for over 130,000 miles. I didnt change the belt until it had over 100,000 miles on it. The tensioners on the ribbed belts absorb quite a bit of the initial load. The surface area of the 6 rib is far superior to the standard v-belt, hence lower tension required. I understand the reasoning behind your decision though, the further from visibility the compressor is the better it looks. I just wish I could have clearance to run mine underneath as you are. I didnt mind the notching as much as the compressor hitting the sway bar. That was with the small factory sway bar at that. I want the 1 1/8" aftermarket sway bar and that would be a big heck no with the compressor down low. I had thought about mounting it on the passenger side but that means longer hoses and such. Keeping digging man your almost there.
08-26-2011, 06:55 PM
#182
Good idea on the swaybar! The real problem with the low mount A/C compressor is the subframe is in the way and would have to be notched. I already notched for the oil pan and didnt want to further weaken it by notching for the compressor. Even with the sub notched it will be a pain in the butt to work on anything down there.
08-27-2011, 10:26 PM
#183
I haven't touched it on weeks. Been too busy with honey-dos lately and need to clear out the garage to make room to work. I haven't decided what direction to go yet on the motor mounting. I've thought about trying more things out and then leaving to to sit a few more weeks again because I never actually want the car to run.
08-28-2011, 08:30 AM
#185
I haven't touched it on weeks. Been too busy with honey-dos lately and need to clear out the garage to make room to work. I haven't decided what direction to go yet on the motor mounting. I've thought about trying more things out and then leaving to to sit a few more weeks again because I never actually want the car to run.
bill (got bit hard after a year of not much progess
)
08-28-2011, 01:18 PM
#186
TECH Enthusiast
Bandit,
Couple of things on your build. First is the suspension. Everybody knows that the first gen Camaros are the same as the Novas and a very good site for your suspension needs and questions is Dave Pozzi's First Gen Suspension website. Do a search for Dave and First Gen Suspension and you will find it. Just for a reference his wifes leaf spring second gen Camaro beat a DSE setup in a roadrace a few years back. The Guildstrand mod and a whole lot more info is located there for a great suspension on both Novas and Camaros. Second is your engine location and a few words from somebody that has been through it already. I had some clearance problems with headers and the tie rods with Stainless Works headers. Lesson is you need to go with matched components if you can otherwise you see what everybody else sees. I ended up going with a set of Kooks TBSS headers in the car and they fit. Good thing the SW headers were defective. The problem is when you do these swaps you will find that everybody is a little different with their engine locations like what you are trying to do. I did the BRP with a notch and got a decent clearance on compressor. For now I am going to use the variable compressor hooked up to a Vintage Air but it fits and I have about an inch further back that I could go with the notch. If I had a top connection on the compressor I could probably go a tiny bit further.
Couple of things on your build. First is the suspension. Everybody knows that the first gen Camaros are the same as the Novas and a very good site for your suspension needs and questions is Dave Pozzi's First Gen Suspension website. Do a search for Dave and First Gen Suspension and you will find it. Just for a reference his wifes leaf spring second gen Camaro beat a DSE setup in a roadrace a few years back. The Guildstrand mod and a whole lot more info is located there for a great suspension on both Novas and Camaros. Second is your engine location and a few words from somebody that has been through it already. I had some clearance problems with headers and the tie rods with Stainless Works headers. Lesson is you need to go with matched components if you can otherwise you see what everybody else sees. I ended up going with a set of Kooks TBSS headers in the car and they fit. Good thing the SW headers were defective. The problem is when you do these swaps you will find that everybody is a little different with their engine locations like what you are trying to do. I did the BRP with a notch and got a decent clearance on compressor. For now I am going to use the variable compressor hooked up to a Vintage Air but it fits and I have about an inch further back that I could go with the notch. If I had a top connection on the compressor I could probably go a tiny bit further.
08-28-2011, 01:20 PM
#187
TECH Enthusiast
Bandit,
Sorry another comment. I know you are going forward with a Turbo 400 but the newer OD trannys are much better you would not regret going that route. I had a 2004R in my car before and there is something to be said about the electronic trannies.
Sorry another comment. I know you are going forward with a Turbo 400 but the newer OD trannys are much better you would not regret going that route. I had a 2004R in my car before and there is something to be said about the electronic trannies.
08-29-2011, 10:11 AM
#188
Ghost, I appreciate the thoughtful reply and words from experience. I have been to Pozzi's site several times and it has been very informative, but I am careful to also learn and verify things on my own. My engine position is custom and I anticipated problems would crop up. I'll work through it at some point.
I agree the TH400 is out of place. My next tranny will likely be a T56, but I am going to wait to swap that in at a future date. I don't think I want another auto in this car.
The challenges with the swap aren't really what keep me from making progress. It's all the other stuff in life that keeps me from working on it.
I agree the TH400 is out of place. My next tranny will likely be a T56, but I am going to wait to swap that in at a future date. I don't think I want another auto in this car.
The challenges with the swap aren't really what keep me from making progress. It's all the other stuff in life that keeps me from working on it.
08-29-2011, 04:58 PM
#190
Teching In
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hey my man ,, i hope all is going well, i got my car up and running, looks great and works even better, i have one question,,,
my car is a 1970 nova ss,, it has the stock tack in the corner of the speedo head and i would like to see if i can make it work,, nothing around aftermarket to convert the signal,,was wondering if yyou may know of something,,thanks again
awesomerob
my car is a 1970 nova ss,, it has the stock tack in the corner of the speedo head and i would like to see if i can make it work,, nothing around aftermarket to convert the signal,,was wondering if yyou may know of something,,thanks again
awesomerob
08-29-2011, 05:18 PM
#191
Congrats awesomerob!
Try these guys: http://www.dandmrestoration.com/tachometers They say they can convert a mechanical tach to electric, so maybe they offer a solution. I'd love to have a factory tach in my Nova. Modern gages are awesome (you should see frojoe's cluster lit up, WOW), but something about watching that old red needle bounce and jitter adds to the nostalgic experience. Unlike the nostalgia of other vintage components like carburetors and points, it reqiures a lot less maintanence, is much more accurate, and a whole lot more reliable.
Try these guys: http://www.dandmrestoration.com/tachometers They say they can convert a mechanical tach to electric, so maybe they offer a solution. I'd love to have a factory tach in my Nova. Modern gages are awesome (you should see frojoe's cluster lit up, WOW), but something about watching that old red needle bounce and jitter adds to the nostalgic experience. Unlike the nostalgia of other vintage components like carburetors and points, it reqiures a lot less maintanence, is much more accurate, and a whole lot more reliable.
09-06-2011, 10:47 AM
#192
TECH Apprentice
Subscribed! Great thread! I am working on my 67 Camaro build but recently slowed the pace to purchase a home (in CRAZY So Cal market) and I also have two children. Needless to say, I will be creeping along at a snails pace compared to others on this site, i.e. Tsnow is the MAN! Anyway great thread and I hope to start my own once things are settled down on the home front, lol
09-06-2011, 12:16 PM
#193
Thanks for the complements MisterD and congrats on buying a home! The market is tough around here, that's for sure. We've been looking at moving for the last year, but trying to sell our current home for what would likely be a loss is not an attractive proposition.
A little update on the Nova. This weekend I spent about 3 hours machining another set of adapter plates, this time duplicating the Autokraft mounts EXACTLY in terms of thickness and hole locations. I'll post pictures later. I wanted to see if any of the custom positioning (lifting/shift) of the engine that I've done is causing my steering & header issues. The result: steering still hits the oil pan before the stops and the driver's side header hits the steering box and pitman arm. The alternator no longer fits without notching and the AC would require a hefty cut plus moving the swaybar down, but on the bright side the AC suitcase still fits and even the coil packs clear the booster and suitcase in their OEM positions (something I haven't checked until now).
As I was working under the car I noticed the engine & oil pan appear to be sloped downward toward the rear while the transmission & tranny pan look relatively flat relative to the frame. This seemed a little strange to me. All the bellhousing bolts are tight and using a flashlight, I don't see any gaps between the bellhousing and the engine. But I did notice that with the TCI spacer & flexplate, I'm unable to move the torque converter forward by hand to mate with the flexplate. The torque converter rotates freely, but there's about a half inch gap between the mating flanges where it would bolt to the flexplate. It seems like the spacer is fully engaged on the nose of the torque converter, but perhaps isn't fully seated into the crank. My thought is maybe the tranny isn't fully mated and therefore the engine is tilted downward. What do you think?
A little update on the Nova. This weekend I spent about 3 hours machining another set of adapter plates, this time duplicating the Autokraft mounts EXACTLY in terms of thickness and hole locations. I'll post pictures later. I wanted to see if any of the custom positioning (lifting/shift) of the engine that I've done is causing my steering & header issues. The result: steering still hits the oil pan before the stops and the driver's side header hits the steering box and pitman arm. The alternator no longer fits without notching and the AC would require a hefty cut plus moving the swaybar down, but on the bright side the AC suitcase still fits and even the coil packs clear the booster and suitcase in their OEM positions (something I haven't checked until now).
As I was working under the car I noticed the engine & oil pan appear to be sloped downward toward the rear while the transmission & tranny pan look relatively flat relative to the frame. This seemed a little strange to me. All the bellhousing bolts are tight and using a flashlight, I don't see any gaps between the bellhousing and the engine. But I did notice that with the TCI spacer & flexplate, I'm unable to move the torque converter forward by hand to mate with the flexplate. The torque converter rotates freely, but there's about a half inch gap between the mating flanges where it would bolt to the flexplate. It seems like the spacer is fully engaged on the nose of the torque converter, but perhaps isn't fully seated into the crank. My thought is maybe the tranny isn't fully mated and therefore the engine is tilted downward. What do you think?
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 09-06-2011 at 01:40 PM.
09-06-2011, 03:03 PM
#194
Hey its great to hear your back on track with your build. Or at least heading that way. As far as the tranny being off from the engine, I am with you if the bellhousing is tight all the way around then it should follow the plane of the engine. I am unsure of whats up with the torque converter. Where are you at as far as crank angle is concerned? I have mine between 3-5 degrees tilted back. I would take the angle finder and check the crank pulley and then check the output shaft of the tranny. They should be identical.
09-06-2011, 11:21 PM
#195
Okay, so as promised here are some pictures. First off, some shots of the accessories with my 1" lift, 1/4" forward adapters. In these pictures I also have a spacer under the transmission to raise it about 3/4" at the mount.
Here is the stock truck LY6 alternator mounted in a 4th gen F body position which cleared the frame with some room at 1" lift, 1/4" forward.
Next the Trailblazer 5.3/6.0 a/c compressor and mounting bracket/tensioner. The bracket clears perfectly with minor trimming around the adapter and you can see the aftermarket 1-1/8" OD swaybar also clears easily. The compressor itself requires some frame notching to fit in this position, mostly to give access for installation. Lower mounting bolt access would be very tight. This is at 1" lift 1/4" forward.
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 09-06-2011 at 11:30 PM.
09-06-2011, 11:29 PM
#196
Next as stated above, I decided to try duplicating the Autokraft adapters. They told me over the phone their thickness is 7/16, but I left mine 1/2" so technically they are ever so slightly taller than what Autokraft sells, but should put them in a "0" forward position and about the same height.
The following two pictures were taken with my Autokraft copy adapters and no spacer at the transmission mount. The Dougs D3337 headers are hitting the steering box and the pitman arm and the tie rod end hits the frame before the steering hits. I can't blame Dougs since they designed these headers for mounts that have a bit of setback, but I was hopeful they'd fit because I've seen one swap with "0" setback mounts that used them. You can see how much space there is at the steering arm between it and the steering stop on the arm. This is at full droop.
These last two pictures are informational. The coils & wires clear my factory brake booster and the a/c suitcase has ample clearance at the back of the heads with my Autokraft copy adapters.
Even though this didn't result in a working combination, I'm happy I went through this as a sanity check and I should easily be able to sell these adapters. I think the steering interference is a matter of tie rod adjustment; I could have too much toe. I think the header interference is the result of using headers design for a slight setback; Dougs wants you to use their SK100 adpaters which are setback.
I am just about ready for iteration #4 which will likely be a combination of lift and setback. Let the fun continue!
The following two pictures were taken with my Autokraft copy adapters and no spacer at the transmission mount. The Dougs D3337 headers are hitting the steering box and the pitman arm and the tie rod end hits the frame before the steering hits. I can't blame Dougs since they designed these headers for mounts that have a bit of setback, but I was hopeful they'd fit because I've seen one swap with "0" setback mounts that used them. You can see how much space there is at the steering arm between it and the steering stop on the arm. This is at full droop.
These last two pictures are informational. The coils & wires clear my factory brake booster and the a/c suitcase has ample clearance at the back of the heads with my Autokraft copy adapters.
Even though this didn't result in a working combination, I'm happy I went through this as a sanity check and I should easily be able to sell these adapters. I think the steering interference is a matter of tie rod adjustment; I could have too much toe. I think the header interference is the result of using headers design for a slight setback; Dougs wants you to use their SK100 adpaters which are setback.
I am just about ready for iteration #4 which will likely be a combination of lift and setback. Let the fun continue!
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 09-15-2011 at 10:24 AM.
09-09-2011, 08:50 AM
#197
Bandit here is a link to a guy that used a compressor similar to mine and mounted it down low. He made his own bracket and moved the compressor forward to share the main drive belt. This way you can keep the engine down low for clearance elsewhere and still have the compressor out of the way. Simple bracketry.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ed-pics-6.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ed-pics-6.html
09-09-2011, 05:09 PM
#198
Thanks tsnow. That is very much along the lines of the ones I found in this thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...8-74-nova.html
09-15-2011, 11:45 AM
#199
I called Dougs Headers and spoke to Marvin about the SK100 adapters they used when designing the D3337 headers. After some back and forth, they sent me a drawing and I can now confirm their mounting positions are 1/2 and 1-1/4" setback (depending on which set of holes you use). I put a 1/2" block of aluminum behind the heads to see if I have clearance at the firewall to go that far back. It looks like it's doable, albiet very close at the evaporator suitcase. I have an idea for making the TB compressor work, but at this point my primary concerns are the steering & headers. I'll figure something out for the compressor one way or another. I think I'll pick up some more aluminum and get to work this weekend.
My build is so stalled out. I have seen now three or four Camaro/Nova swaps start and finish while I'm off taking care of my wife & son, hopping on here periodicaly for ideas and random updates on the 3 or 4 hours I've spent actually working on this over the last three months. I sure miss my college days when there was plenty of time to work on my cars.
My build is so stalled out. I have seen now three or four Camaro/Nova swaps start and finish while I'm off taking care of my wife & son, hopping on here periodicaly for ideas and random updates on the 3 or 4 hours I've spent actually working on this over the last three months. I sure miss my college days when there was plenty of time to work on my cars.
