'70 Nova LY6/TH400 6.0VVT
05-15-2012, 11:32 AM
#401
Thank you! Notching is not necessarily required for the 4th gen F-body alternator, but it depends on engine placement (mounts/adapters/driveline angle) and accessory spacing (truck vs. f-body). Take a look at the x-body and 1st gen f-body swap threads to see what has worked for people. In general, the truck spacing will give more clearance with the frame as will neutral rather than set-back adapters. I notched my frame to fit the larger DR44 truck 160amp alternator, although you can get aftermarket f-body alternators with higher than stock output too and possibly avoid notching.
05-15-2012, 11:54 AM
#402
I didn't have to notch my frame any, but the Alternator is very close to the Crossmember.
As Bandit said..Depends on what setup you are using to place your engine. I have my engine about 1/2" back from standard placement and using Short/Wide Mounts.
BC
As Bandit said..Depends on what setup you are using to place your engine. I have my engine about 1/2" back from standard placement and using Short/Wide Mounts.
BC
05-15-2012, 11:30 PM
#404
I finally managed to get started on parts cleaning. A few years ago the local hardware store was clearing out their inventory of Evaporust. I bought a gallon thinking I was probably wasting my money, but may as well have it around to try. I finally found a use for it - my rusty connecting rods!
Evaporust is a non-toxic, non corrosive, bio degradable waterbased product that to my surprise, works as advertised. It is what's called a "selective chelation" which bonds to iron molecules, pulling the iron from iron oxide, but isn't strong enough to pull the iron out of steel. There are a number of home-made rust removal solutions that work in the same manner, but this stuff is ready made and has a few other ingredients to help the process along (for example, surfactant to penetrate oils).
I cleaned the connecting rod above using brake cleaner, then let it soak overnight submerged in the Evaporust. The next day I rinsed it with a garden hose, immediately compressed air dried it, then sprayed it with WD40 to prevent any new rust. The results can be seen below comparing one rod I've cleaned and one I haven't.
Note, in the photo below there is a line below the small end of the cleaned rod. This is where I had left the small end exposed above the Evaporust bath, but later submerged the whole thing. I believe it to be cosmetic only.
I couldn't be happier with the results, so now I am going one by one cleaning the rods in this manner while being careful not to mix any of them up.
I wish a had a giant tank of this stuff I could lower the engine block into. Hopefully the machine shop can help with that problem!
Evaporust is a non-toxic, non corrosive, bio degradable waterbased product that to my surprise, works as advertised. It is what's called a "selective chelation" which bonds to iron molecules, pulling the iron from iron oxide, but isn't strong enough to pull the iron out of steel. There are a number of home-made rust removal solutions that work in the same manner, but this stuff is ready made and has a few other ingredients to help the process along (for example, surfactant to penetrate oils).
I cleaned the connecting rod above using brake cleaner, then let it soak overnight submerged in the Evaporust. The next day I rinsed it with a garden hose, immediately compressed air dried it, then sprayed it with WD40 to prevent any new rust. The results can be seen below comparing one rod I've cleaned and one I haven't.
Note, in the photo below there is a line below the small end of the cleaned rod. This is where I had left the small end exposed above the Evaporust bath, but later submerged the whole thing. I believe it to be cosmetic only.
I couldn't be happier with the results, so now I am going one by one cleaning the rods in this manner while being careful not to mix any of them up.
I wish a had a giant tank of this stuff I could lower the engine block into. Hopefully the machine shop can help with that problem!
05-16-2012, 10:09 AM
#408
http://www.camarohomepage.com/ls3/
I have no plans at the moment. I need to borrow a truck, but I figured I should get all the other parts lined up so they'll be ready when its ready.
It had that too-good-to-be-true quality, but the results speak for themselves. The stuff is incredible!
I just need about 6 quarts of the stuff to use in place of oil for the start-up - that should clear the rust out of the oil passages and off the bearings. 
05-26-2012, 02:00 AM
#413
I want to shout out a special thank you to futureuser here on LS1tech for gifting to me a C6 DBW pedal assembly. I can't thank him enough, but I will try to pay it forward at some point to someone else who has helped me on the forum.
Someone recently started a thread asking where to mount their DBW pedal in a Nova. It inspired me to try this thing out. futureuser found that one of the mounting screws around the steering colum was a convenient place to bolt this up on a 1st gen Camaro, so I cleared the plastics and insulation surrounding the area and gave the same mounting screw a try on my Nova. Turns out, it positions it fairly well.
You can see above where the pedal is mocked up with the lower bolt hole attaching to an existing location on the firewall next to the steering colum. This position isn't without problems. The firewall is not flat in the area to the right or above, so the mounting plate doesn't sit flat. The pedal is remarkably close to the original position though and is comfortable to operate. It reaches a mechanical stop built into the pedal about 1/2" before contact with the carpet. I think I may use this location, but I will need to come up with a more robust mounting.
Something that surprised me about the C6 pedal is that the pad is nearly identical in size and design to the original Nova pedal. In fact, I can not tell the plastic portion apart. I am going to try swapping the chrome bezel over because I think it will fit
Thanks again futureuser! And to everyone, have a happy and safe Memorial Day Weekend!
Someone recently started a thread asking where to mount their DBW pedal in a Nova. It inspired me to try this thing out. futureuser found that one of the mounting screws around the steering colum was a convenient place to bolt this up on a 1st gen Camaro, so I cleared the plastics and insulation surrounding the area and gave the same mounting screw a try on my Nova. Turns out, it positions it fairly well.
You can see above where the pedal is mocked up with the lower bolt hole attaching to an existing location on the firewall next to the steering colum. This position isn't without problems. The firewall is not flat in the area to the right or above, so the mounting plate doesn't sit flat. The pedal is remarkably close to the original position though and is comfortable to operate. It reaches a mechanical stop built into the pedal about 1/2" before contact with the carpet. I think I may use this location, but I will need to come up with a more robust mounting.
Something that surprised me about the C6 pedal is that the pad is nearly identical in size and design to the original Nova pedal. In fact, I can not tell the plastic portion apart. I am going to try swapping the chrome bezel over because I think it will fit
Thanks again futureuser! And to everyone, have a happy and safe Memorial Day Weekend!
05-26-2012, 03:49 PM
#414
I've also been working on cleaning up the original pistons. I decided to try soaking them in a mixture of Simple Green and water.
WARNING! Do not use Simple Green like this to clean aluminum engine part! It can damage them. See this post: https://ls1tech.com/forums/16453672-post426.html
They aren't cleaning up as quickly as the rods, but after about two weeks of soaking and brushing them every few days with a brass bristle brush, they are looking close to new again. Here is a cleaned piston next to one that hasn't been soaked or brushed yet (except for some cleaning I did to the top when it was in the shortblock still). All the pistons had a lot of carbon buildup around the top ring, both above and below it, which was very difficult to remove.
A few notes on these LY6 pistons. As you can see they are dished with two valve reliefs. The floating pins are retained with simple circular clips that I removed easily with a flat head screwdriver. The areas on either side of the top ring appear to be anodized (something I read are a feature on LS3 pistons). The skirts are coating. Unlike what I read about LS3 pistons, there are no cross drilled holes for washing oil from the cylinder walls down back through the piston.
After pulling them from the Simple Green solution, they started forming little chalk like spots which I think are oxidation. So I brushed that stuff back off and sprayed them with WD-40 which seems to keep it from happening.
WARNING! Do not use Simple Green like this to clean aluminum engine part! It can damage them. See this post: https://ls1tech.com/forums/16453672-post426.html
They aren't cleaning up as quickly as the rods, but after about two weeks of soaking and brushing them every few days with a brass bristle brush, they are looking close to new again. Here is a cleaned piston next to one that hasn't been soaked or brushed yet (except for some cleaning I did to the top when it was in the shortblock still). All the pistons had a lot of carbon buildup around the top ring, both above and below it, which was very difficult to remove.
A few notes on these LY6 pistons. As you can see they are dished with two valve reliefs. The floating pins are retained with simple circular clips that I removed easily with a flat head screwdriver. The areas on either side of the top ring appear to be anodized (something I read are a feature on LS3 pistons). The skirts are coating. Unlike what I read about LS3 pistons, there are no cross drilled holes for washing oil from the cylinder walls down back through the piston.
After pulling them from the Simple Green solution, they started forming little chalk like spots which I think are oxidation. So I brushed that stuff back off and sprayed them with WD-40 which seems to keep it from happening.
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 06-25-2012 at 11:24 AM.
05-26-2012, 05:34 PM
#415
And I started taking the heads apart in prep for cleanup and new springs. I'm thinking about taking them with me to the machine shop to have them cleaned, though I might just try the same Simple Green soak I'm doing on the pistons. I'm using a mechanical spring compressor I found in a clearance bin at Sears. It is self locking, but seems to twist a bit under load. I'm a bit worried it wont be up to the task of installing the new double springs.
The factory one piece valve seals plus seats came off easily with a twist and pull.
A long time ago I learned this trick for storing valves; just punch some holes into a box using a screwdriver and push them into place. A slight interferance holds them nicely.
The factory one piece valve seals plus seats came off easily with a twist and pull.
A long time ago I learned this trick for storing valves; just punch some holes into a box using a screwdriver and push them into place. A slight interferance holds them nicely.
05-26-2012, 10:41 PM
#416
Concerning the valve spring compressor, if you are going to use Patriot .660" Extreme Golds, do not attempt to use that compressor you have. I ended up borrowing a Snap On pneumatic compressor, which is the best tool ever invented hands down! I fought the springs for a solid hour with c-clamp compressor to no avail!!! 15 minutes with the Snap On and the job was complete.
The carbon build up on your pistons looks almost identical to the ones I pulled out my LQ4 with 98,000 miles. It appears to me that the PCV system on the LQ4 contributed to the problem. I bought a revised LS6 valley cover with the built in PCV rather than using the valve cover to scavenge the crankcase pressure. The LQ4's had a **** poor baffle in them. Does your engine use the valley cover or the valve cover to relief the pressure?
Go ahead and send those heads out for a full CNC porting job and the carbon will surely be gone!!! I know its like $1400 to have it done but hey, no time like the present!!!
The carbon build up on your pistons looks almost identical to the ones I pulled out my LQ4 with 98,000 miles. It appears to me that the PCV system on the LQ4 contributed to the problem. I bought a revised LS6 valley cover with the built in PCV rather than using the valve cover to scavenge the crankcase pressure. The LQ4's had a **** poor baffle in them. Does your engine use the valley cover or the valve cover to relief the pressure?
Go ahead and send those heads out for a full CNC porting job and the carbon will surely be gone!!! I know its like $1400 to have it done but hey, no time like the present!!!
05-27-2012, 12:24 AM
#417
Concerning the valve spring compressor, if you are going to use Patriot .660" Extreme Golds, do not attempt to use that compressor you have. I ended up borrowing a Snap On pneumatic compressor, which is the best tool ever invented hands down! I fought the springs for a solid hour with c-clamp compressor to no avail!!! 15 minutes with the Snap On and the job was complete.
Closed Spring Pressure: 145lbs @ 1.800"
Open Spring Pressure: 450lbs @ 1.150"
Spring Rate: 469lbs/in
I can see from just removing the stock springs, this thing is not going to work. I've used a pneumatic compressor in the past and they are about as easy as it gets, so consider your advise taken!
The carbon build up on your pistons looks almost identical to the ones I pulled out my LQ4 with 98,000 miles. It appears to me that the PCV system on the LQ4 contributed to the problem. I bought a revised LS6 valley cover with the built in PCV rather than using the valve cover to scavenge the crankcase pressure. The LQ4's had a **** poor baffle in them. Does your engine use the valley cover or the valve cover to relief the pressure?
CNC carbon removal - yeah that's it. Honey, my heads are dirty, I need to pay $1400 to have them cleaned. LOL
05-27-2012, 12:42 AM
#418
I managed to finish disassembly on both heads tonight. They are now bare & ready for cleaning.
I decided to try my hand at checking valve spring height, so I pulled out my new Proform valvespring height micrometer and gave it on a shot on the #1 cylinder valves.
The height micrometer is very easy to use. The body is made of two halves that expand apart when rotated. You assemble it into the head in place of the valvespring, expanding it until the valve is fully seated. Graduations on the side tell you the height.
One thing I am a bit concerned with about this height micrometer is there's a step down at the top with an ID only about 1/16" smaller than the OD of the valve spring retainer. It felt like the retainer sort of self centered on this ID, which makes me think the retainer is sitting on the chamfered edged. This is how it's sitting in the above photo where I measured a height of about 1.8025in.
So next I tried offsetting the micrometer so at least half of it would be fully underneat the retainer. That's how it's sitting in the photo below where I measured a height of about 1.7975 - about a 0.005in difference.
I'm not entirely sure which of these numbers to trust, but I'm inclined to believe neither are anything to be concerned about. What do you think?
Here is the exhaust valve on the same cylinder with the micrometer centered on the retainer. I measured a height here of about 1.810.
Considering the spring rate of 469lb/in, a 0.010in difference in installed height would be a 4.7lb difference in seat pressure or about 3% of the closed pressure and 1% of the open pressure. This seems like it would be negligeable to me, but what do you think? I'm not really sure at what point I should start thinking about shims.
I decided to try my hand at checking valve spring height, so I pulled out my new Proform valvespring height micrometer and gave it on a shot on the #1 cylinder valves.
The height micrometer is very easy to use. The body is made of two halves that expand apart when rotated. You assemble it into the head in place of the valvespring, expanding it until the valve is fully seated. Graduations on the side tell you the height.
One thing I am a bit concerned with about this height micrometer is there's a step down at the top with an ID only about 1/16" smaller than the OD of the valve spring retainer. It felt like the retainer sort of self centered on this ID, which makes me think the retainer is sitting on the chamfered edged. This is how it's sitting in the above photo where I measured a height of about 1.8025in.
So next I tried offsetting the micrometer so at least half of it would be fully underneat the retainer. That's how it's sitting in the photo below where I measured a height of about 1.7975 - about a 0.005in difference.
I'm not entirely sure which of these numbers to trust, but I'm inclined to believe neither are anything to be concerned about. What do you think?
Here is the exhaust valve on the same cylinder with the micrometer centered on the retainer. I measured a height here of about 1.810.
Considering the spring rate of 469lb/in, a 0.010in difference in installed height would be a 4.7lb difference in seat pressure or about 3% of the closed pressure and 1% of the open pressure. This seems like it would be negligeable to me, but what do you think? I'm not really sure at what point I should start thinking about shims.