-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

The problem is these things aren't free. $150 for decking the block and will I ever know the difference? $135 for line honing and again, would it make any difference at all? The crank spun freely before, though I realize that doesn't prove a lot. If I look at my old main bearings (picture here), except for the second bearing with rust issues, I didn't see any abnormal wear, for example one side worn more than another to indicate a misalignment or out of round situation. I found this photo of someone's mains which seem to indicate that kind of problem. My bearings don't show this kind of wear.

As an engineer I often get caught up in making things perfect, but they don't need to be perfect - they just need to be in spec.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

I think you nailed .. its up to you if just off is good enough for what your going to be using this for, if it meets your needs, then you should be good with putting it back together. But if you go for the Perfect, in the long run, your going to fell better (of if the budget allows).

BC

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

If the machine shop you are using is reputable then I would follow their advice. There is a reason you are an engineer and they are machinists/engine builders.

You must be a patient person as you are nearing the two year mark on the start-up of your build so why not be patient and do things near as perfect from the beginning. Everytime I try to "get by" it comes back to bite me in the ***.

Turtle Bite

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you can skip the decking. I have been told that after blocks have been run for some time and gone through the many thousands of heat cycles that a motor naturally goes through, there is some stress relief and warpage as the block becomes "seasoned". Since the mains are so important and you stand to lose alot if they are not perfect, it may be worth it in this case. But if it were me I would just be putting it together and not messing with it, and that is coming from an **** ME.

You could always get valve reliefs machined into your pistons if you find some that have the pin size for stock rods in your bore, but the cost to have them machined may not be worth it with some of the cheaper rods for $350 a set.

futureuser

iTrader: (1)

I think you should skip all the machining and put this back together with oem parts, if it's in spec. If you can use LS2 pistons and cut in enough valve relief, you could make the most of your vvt2 cam and all the parts you already have. This set up could last longer than the car and make the same power as doing everything else you're thinking about. If you are going with new rods, pistons, and all of the machine work, why not add a stroker crank?

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

The pistons and rods are already on their way. $688 for the 0.030 over fordged flat top Wiseco slugs through Summit and $540 sale price for the Callies Compstar rods through Texas Speed. I know this may sound crazy, but after much consideration I decided I don't want a stroker (no offense to all those building them!). I think the power level I am shooting for (425-450rwhp) will be plenty for my intended use and I am more willing to throw money toward reliability than additional power at this stage. The cost of a crank is about $1000 even when you buy a complete rotating assembly.

Regarding the line honing, part of me agrees with Tony; I want to just burn the money and let the shop do what they recommend. It seems like if I have them line hone, there is very little risk that it would turn out badly and I would have a little more confidence things will be straight and the bearing clearances will be hit (from what I've read, GM tends to come in a bit tight). Also the shop would be more willing to stand behind the work. The main downside is cost of machining adding to an already ballooning budget.

Assuming I do not deck or align hone, currently planned parts plus machining to complete the shortblock totals right about $2k. I am still under the cost of buying an assembled shortblock with similar components (about $3,600 + freight Texas Speed) and right on par with the cost of buying a refreshed stocker shortblock ($1,900 + freight Thompson Motorsports). I think I am doing okay budget wise for what I will end up with. It wouldn't completely kill me to go forward with the recommended machining and I think I may have fewer doubts about what I'll end up with. And yet there is still the side of me saying, why would I do this when there's no proof it's needed?

One thing I have found is there is a lot of varying opinion on this subject. It's kind of like asking how much insurance do you need or planning for how long you'll live for retirement savings. There just isn't a right answer.

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Well said!
Your right about opinions on this forum, everyone has one thats for sure.
Best of luck to you on the build. I am sure it will turn out just fine. My 6.0 was all stock minus cam and heads and it would flat out run. I didn't spend the money on it to have it line-honed nor was it decked. I guess after the money I have dumped into my build, I just side with precaution. You have been through enough already. Just remember when you get the short block back don't wash it, sorry I know that was in poor taste, but you gotta laugh after the fact.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

I've already built a new humidity controlled clean room to keep the engine in! It will get cleaned after it comes back from the machine shop, but only to clean out any leftovers from the machining processes. I'll use brushes and an air nozzle, chase a few threads and wipe the bores with ATF. I'll be doing the assembly myself, God help me!

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

You will be fine! Are you not going to let the machine shop assemble it?

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

After much discussion with the machine shop and searching online, I decided to go forward with the shops recommendations. I am having them line hone the mains and deck the block. I also decided to put ARP main studs in, not wanting to miss the opportunity while the line hone is happening. Ultimately I saw this as a low risk option that will give me confidence that the bearing clearances will be good and the bottom end is stout. I am less excited about decking the block, but it will help with quench and I will be assured things are both square and flat. This was a high cost option, adding about $500 in parts and machine work, however I am at a point with the engine that I am more interesting in utmost reliability than cost. I have thrown a lot of money into the short block that will not improve power output at all, but it will keep me going down the road for many miles and open up the option of adding some boost or NOx down the road if I choose to.

In the end, the relevant build/performance specs will be:Machine work that is or will be done:The pistons are the last to arrive and will be at the machine shop on Monday so they can get started. They already have the rods, bearings, ARP studs, etc.

I picked up a few tools and will be doing the assembly myself. I have a bore gage, micrometers, plastigage, fixed-style ring compressor, ring pliers, degree wheel, adjustable pushrod, indicator/stands, and typical shop tools. I made some solid lifters by welding my old lifters. I also have some brushes for cleaning oil passages etc.

My plans for assembly are;Hopefully I haven't forgotten too much in there. Please let me know if you see things missing! The list of things to do is pretty long, so I'm hoping to use that as a checklist. There are some supporting activities yet to be done like prepping a clean space in the garage, cleaning ancillary components and ordering odds & ends. I've got my work cut out for me.

Thanks to all for the input and encouragement.

frojoe

iTrader: (10)

Corrected that for ya

bczee

iTrader: (12)

As much have you have been through..I think FroJoe added the required steps (Corrections) needed.

All of this makes me think of all of the threads that I have read and followed. That have been through simular happening on what didn't turn out to be such a great deal (when starting out), was trying cutting cost and working on a too tight of a Budget (not saying that you and anyone in general was, but lessons learned).

Sometimes it just pays to shell out the $$ and just do it the right way the 1st time. I know I will be closely watching what I buy and consider the cost and alternatives going forward.

Still following your swap.. as mine is also ongoing (and slow). Keep up the good work and posting.

BC

LongIsland63SS409

iTrader: (22)

Looking forward to the final assembly.

Mike

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

I think you made the wisest choice! I would have never dreamed I would pay for an assembled short block just to install it, remove it, tear it down, put it back together, and reinstall it. So assembling the engine yourself is not a bad option as long as you are thorough. One question, are you going to reuse the MLS gaskets to check the PTV or are you buying two new sets? Guess you could use the old gaskets to check the PTV. If you buy a standard thickness head gasket, GM actually is cheaper than buying them from a generic auto parts store. I bought the L92's for $65 for the pair from my local dealership. Keep us updated with your progress! Pics man, we need pics! Once you get this engine up and running I think you will be impressed beyond belief of the power the LS series has to offer. Are you going to have the rotating assembly balanced? Your bob weight will change with the new rods, pistons, rings, wrist pins etc. To get the longest life out of this engine I would seriously consider a good balance from the flywheel to the crank pulley. Are you having the crank pinned for the balancer? If you plan on running a supercharger anytime in the future you might as well go ahead and do it while the crank is out. Best of luck to ya Clint!

LongIsland63SS409

iTrader: (22)

Clint was is the part number for the pistons you are using?

Any assembly pics yet?

Thanks,
Mike

Builtz71

iTrader: (4)

I like the way Frojoe thinks!!

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys for the replies. I think you nailed it frojoe - the trouble is balancing mistakes due to anxiety vs. mistakes due to intoxication. It's a fine line.

A long time ago I put a fresh shortblock in my old Toyota. My brother was eating sunflower seeds the whole time we were finishing off the assembly and shoving the engine in. After it fired up it had a severe head gasket leak. At first we thought maybe a seed shell made its way between the head and block, but later we realized the blind head bolt threads had some oil in them preventing full tightening of the head bolts (rookie mistake!). No point to the story other than I will find off the wall ways to screw this up, especially if I'm drinking.

@tsnow The new MLS head gaskets are GM PN 1261004. They are the same PN as what came out of the engine and I plan to use the old ones for the PTV checks, replacing them with the new ones at final assembly. This gasket has a 4.080 bore and is what comes in the LS3 & L92 engines (same as what you used, perhaps?). It's not what I found when looking up 6.0 gaskets like what would be used on an LQ4, for example, but since this is what GM used on my engine I decided to use the same.

Regarding the balancing, yes the new rotating assembly will be balanced, but I did not give them the balancer or flexplate. Thanks for suggesting the balancer pinning - I started looking into it and may do it while the engine is on the stand. It looks like it would be virtually impossible to do in the car given the location of the frame crossmember below the balancer.

@mike - The pistons are Wiseco K398X3 for 4.030 bore .927 pin flat top -3.2cc from valve reliefs with 1.304 compression height. They are coated, have chromoly offset pins and are 2618. The top ring is 1.2mm nitrided steel with a 1.2mm napier second ring and nitrided steel oil ring. You can find the Wiseco catalog here: http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Automotive/Chevrolet.pdf

The pistons just got to the machine shop yesterday. Last I talked to them it would be about a week to get all the machine work done. I'll definitely post pictures when I start putting it together. I am really excited to see the new hardware - a real shame I had to ship it directly to the shop, but with them being about 1.5hr from my house I thought it would be best that way.

I discovered a few days ago that Robert Bieschke, the gentleman handling my machine work at QMP, was featured in a short Car Craft article showing how to measure engine parts. Here is that article and a flavor of what I will be doing: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ces/index.html

futureuser

iTrader: (1)

I think you should easily meet your goals. Once you have the tune sorted, the engine should be capable of some huge numbers with a little help from a power adder.

Jimbo1367

I am sure I missed this somewhere, but are you leaving the rings gaped properly for boost in case you boost it later down the road?

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

I am gapping them for normally aspirated. With the 10.25 compression, I doubt I would add very much boost - probably around 8psi on a TVS if I ever decided to go that route, so the ring gap for NA should be okay. This was a point I discussed with the shop. My preference is to optimize for NA since I will likely leave it that way for a long time.

Line hone and balancing are happening today. It should be up on the CNC for deck bore and hone next week. I've got my work cut out for me prepping the garage, along with ordering a pile of odds and ends like gaskets, plugs, etc. I am replacing ALL the gaskets with new GM because the rubbers were separating from their aluminum carriers. I know they are often reusable, but several were in bad shape and one of my goals for this project is NO LEAKS.