LY6/4L80e from rough van into rough 69 camaro
12-12-2010, 06:33 PM
#45
42 year old suspension Almost done stripping the subframe after a few hours in snow flurries. Sure beats rain. It looks like the shocks and coils were replaced once. I don't think the control arms have ever been off. I still have 2bolts stuck in the lower control arms before they come off. Anyone know any tricks?
agr race box with a .220 valve for higher effort so I'm told
summit 1 1/8 sway bar with an interesting finish
er uh, ebay suspension arms, eibach springs
these are the problematic slugs that don't seat well when shipped. I sanded them down so they seat well and will use grade 8 bolts and washer incase they fail. I learned about these on camaros.net The rest of the construction looks good and for $300 shipped, they'll save alot of time over replacing the existing bushings on the factory control arms.
hotchkis tie rod ends and sleeve
I'm changing the idler, pitman arms and using kyb shocks. Already have new 11 inch disc brakes, calipers master cylinder, metal body bushings, welded subframe connectors.
I'm thinking about painting the whole car in POR15 so when the rest of the metal rusts from the inside out, I'll have a strong hammer resistant shell of a car that isn't uv proof. There is more rust inside my subrame than outside.
agr race box with a .220 valve for higher effort so I'm told
summit 1 1/8 sway bar with an interesting finish
er uh, ebay suspension arms, eibach springs
these are the problematic slugs that don't seat well when shipped. I sanded them down so they seat well and will use grade 8 bolts and washer incase they fail. I learned about these on camaros.net The rest of the construction looks good and for $300 shipped, they'll save alot of time over replacing the existing bushings on the factory control arms.
hotchkis tie rod ends and sleeve
I'm changing the idler, pitman arms and using kyb shocks. Already have new 11 inch disc brakes, calipers master cylinder, metal body bushings, welded subframe connectors.
I'm thinking about painting the whole car in POR15 so when the rest of the metal rusts from the inside out, I'll have a strong hammer resistant shell of a car that isn't uv proof. There is more rust inside my subrame than outside.
Last edited by futureuser; 12-12-2010 at 06:40 PM.
12-15-2010, 08:49 AM
#46
spilling the beans (I posted this elsewhere)
Okay, I was going to wait until I got my chassis dyno numbers back, but here goes.
I placed several calls to Mast and talked to them about their new LY6 ss cam. I talked to the comp cams tech department a few times about their cams. I called TSP but did not get a call back. Bottom line: Mast and Comp produce excellent hardware, but do not support tuning unless, in the case of mast, you buy their ecm. The mast ecm, however, will not run my 2009 4L80e. Mast even tells me to find a reputable tuner in my area by checking out the forums. This leaves a crucial peice of the puzzle missing when purchasing vvt hardware. Also mail order tunes leave something to be desired over a custom chassis dyno tune.
Well, I live in Smyrna, GA on the north side of Atlanta and I take Mast's advice and search. Many users on here rave about Vengeance racing. I contact them, speak with Ron, and set up an appointment. So, I go in and sit down with Ron and we review the dyno charts from Mast's new 509hp ss ly6 cam and the chart from the L92 comp cam swap vvt magazine article where they dyno over 500hp. I expressed that I liked the benifits of vvt and that I wanted to keep this feature. After some further discussion, Ron said that he could beat the curve down low, build more bottom end torque and beat the curve all the way to the top with their cam and tune. Of course, Vengeance would have to tune the car. This is the package I was looking for. By the way, Vengeance has used some autokraft pans with great results, so we ordered one of those as well.
So I ended up ditching the vvt. I really like vvt. I have it in my Tundra 5.7 with a 6 speed auto and this truck is faster than a lot of sports cars. The new 5.0L mustang has it. But here's the thing. These engines have dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, and can independantly alter the valve timing on the intake and exhaust. I talked with Ron about this and it seems that these engines benefit more from vvt. The gm single cam push rod vvt, apparently was designed to enhance fuel economy more than engine output and because we comprimise by not independantly changing intake and exhasut valve timing, one of the issues we come up with is piston/valve clearance. So now we have to comprimise our cam. This is why I believe that for the sake of performance, in the case of gen 4 vvt, it may be better to do without. The proof will be in the pudding. Win or loose, I'm going to post my dyno results.
Another note. Alot of people on here confuse vvt with other systems that Toyota, Honda, BMW and Porsche use. Some of their systems change the valve lift and duration in different ways. This is a whole other benefit and does not compare to vvt. This is why some of these cars can scream to 8500 rpm and be street driven and get good fuel economy.
Okay, I was going to wait until I got my chassis dyno numbers back, but here goes.
I placed several calls to Mast and talked to them about their new LY6 ss cam. I talked to the comp cams tech department a few times about their cams. I called TSP but did not get a call back. Bottom line: Mast and Comp produce excellent hardware, but do not support tuning unless, in the case of mast, you buy their ecm. The mast ecm, however, will not run my 2009 4L80e. Mast even tells me to find a reputable tuner in my area by checking out the forums. This leaves a crucial peice of the puzzle missing when purchasing vvt hardware. Also mail order tunes leave something to be desired over a custom chassis dyno tune.
Well, I live in Smyrna, GA on the north side of Atlanta and I take Mast's advice and search. Many users on here rave about Vengeance racing. I contact them, speak with Ron, and set up an appointment. So, I go in and sit down with Ron and we review the dyno charts from Mast's new 509hp ss ly6 cam and the chart from the L92 comp cam swap vvt magazine article where they dyno over 500hp. I expressed that I liked the benifits of vvt and that I wanted to keep this feature. After some further discussion, Ron said that he could beat the curve down low, build more bottom end torque and beat the curve all the way to the top with their cam and tune. Of course, Vengeance would have to tune the car. This is the package I was looking for. By the way, Vengeance has used some autokraft pans with great results, so we ordered one of those as well.
So I ended up ditching the vvt. I really like vvt. I have it in my Tundra 5.7 with a 6 speed auto and this truck is faster than a lot of sports cars. The new 5.0L mustang has it. But here's the thing. These engines have dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, and can independantly alter the valve timing on the intake and exhaust. I talked with Ron about this and it seems that these engines benefit more from vvt. The gm single cam push rod vvt, apparently was designed to enhance fuel economy more than engine output and because we comprimise by not independantly changing intake and exhasut valve timing, one of the issues we come up with is piston/valve clearance. So now we have to comprimise our cam. This is why I believe that for the sake of performance, in the case of gen 4 vvt, it may be better to do without. The proof will be in the pudding. Win or loose, I'm going to post my dyno results.
Another note. Alot of people on here confuse vvt with other systems that Toyota, Honda, BMW and Porsche use. Some of their systems change the valve lift and duration in different ways. This is a whole other benefit and does not compare to vvt. This is why some of these cars can scream to 8500 rpm and be street driven and get good fuel economy.
12-17-2010, 10:09 AM
#47
Sounds like a perfectly good plan to me!
Would you mind sending me the Mast LY6 SS dyno chart? I can't find it on their site yet.
I remember those lower control arm bolts being a pain also. If I recall correctly (it's been ten years!), I used an air ratchet on one side to keep the bolts turning while I tapped from the other side with a hammer & some kind of extension.
Would you mind sending me the Mast LY6 SS dyno chart? I can't find it on their site yet.
I remember those lower control arm bolts being a pain also. If I recall correctly (it's been ten years!), I used an air ratchet on one side to keep the bolts turning while I tapped from the other side with a hammer & some kind of extension.
12-17-2010, 12:29 PM
#48
well it's nice to know that my experiences are helping the community. not that the raptorX is a bad piece, i just wish it had exhaust clearance.
future, i'll be watching your build. well... i'll probably be watching clint's build closer, since i'm hoping to run a vvt motor in the Goat (that's still the plan, right clint?). that's cool that vengeance has you covered with the tune and all. i'm lucky to have an excellent tuner here in PHX, so i really have no worries trying to keep the vvt.
future, i'll be watching your build. well... i'll probably be watching clint's build closer, since i'm hoping to run a vvt motor in the Goat (that's still the plan, right clint?). that's cool that vengeance has you covered with the tune and all. i'm lucky to have an excellent tuner here in PHX, so i really have no worries trying to keep the vvt.
12-17-2010, 06:38 PM
#50
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Keeping the vvt in the ly6 thats going in my sonoma. I know right now there might be some power left on the table compared to a traditional cam but hopefully the future will bring better results.
12-18-2010, 12:05 PM
#52
Sounds like a perfectly good plan to me!
Would you mind sending me the Mast LY6 SS dyno chart? I can't find it on their site yet.
I remember those lower control arm bolts being a pain also. If I recall correctly (it's been ten years!), I used an air ratchet on one side to keep the bolts turning while I tapped from the other side with a hammer & some kind of extension.
Would you mind sending me the Mast LY6 SS dyno chart? I can't find it on their site yet.
I remember those lower control arm bolts being a pain also. If I recall correctly (it's been ten years!), I used an air ratchet on one side to keep the bolts turning while I tapped from the other side with a hammer & some kind of extension.
Mast Ly6 ss cam specs:
duration 220 int/234 exh, 572 int/588 exh, 116 lsa
This graph is mislabled as the HO. It is in fact the new SS. Also the numbers are not corrected to SAE so they maybe slightly inflated.
12-18-2010, 04:50 PM
#53
stripped and ready for por15 I would have pulled the brake lines and hoses except I just repalced them when I pulled the car out of storage, so I didn't feel like doing it twice. And the subframe is welded to connectors so that stayed in place.
12-20-2010, 04:18 PM
#54
Thanks for the dyno chart. I saved it. I recommend you delete it from your build thread or your project could get garbled up with cam discussion.
What did you end up doing to get those LCA bolts out? Is there a plate underneath connecting the main and forward crossmembers on your subframe?
What did you end up doing to get those LCA bolts out? Is there a plate underneath connecting the main and forward crossmembers on your subframe?
12-21-2010, 04:40 PM
#55
I had to heat up the lower contol arms to melt the bushing a little while turning and hammering the bolts to get them out. Yes, there are two thin metal plates attaching the forward cross sections of the frame underneath. I'll post some pictures.
12-29-2010, 10:30 PM
#56
Got the Dynatechs. Big surprise: the o2 bungs are welded in. This is a revision. Flange is 3/8 inch thick. Included all fasteners, gaskets, o2 plugs and pipe attachments. Here are the bottom gaskets:
1 7/8 primaries, 3 inch collectors, $430 shipped and made in Indiana
We'll soon know how well they fit.
Last edited by futureuser; 12-30-2010 at 11:24 AM. Reason: mistake
12-30-2010, 02:01 PM
#60
Dynatech definitely has an interesting routing for the #3 primary. I'd be interested to know if spark plug access is an issue. How tight do the passenger side bends hug the head/engine? About how far from the flange do they stick out?
Take a look at these two threads if you haven't already:
1) https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...plug-wire.html
2) https://ls1tech.com/forums/13960218-post61.html
Take a look at these two threads if you haven't already:
1) https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...plug-wire.html
2) https://ls1tech.com/forums/13960218-post61.html
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 12-30-2010 at 11:49 PM.