Saved for years, need opinions on what to build
03-21-2016, 10:41 PM
#1
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Saved for years, need opinions on what to build So here's the thing guys, bought a '84 Camaro Z28 when I was 16, and that was the beginning of me dumping money into going fast. Joined the military, modded a 99 Trans Am, she was beautiful and I regret selling her to this day. Sold her to buy a 02 Z06, she was fun. Traded her for a nice Duramax plus cash. Got out of the Army (6 years), and just now sold the truck and paid off all my debt. So after all that, putting a bunch in savings (married with a son now), buying a house (with a garage just for me 
), getting the wife some nice things, I have approximately 6500 bucks that has been stamped APPROVED by the Mrs. for me to finally, finally, get around to rebuilding my high school car into the monster I've always dreamt it would be. AKA 400+ cube LS motor, T56 swap (its an auto), naturally aspirated, etc.
Now before everyone starts telling me 6.5k wont get me real far, I understand, it's just the beginning. I have time, and a dedicated area, I won't get the vehicle to me for a few months (away at the parents place), but I'm trying to start getting a build sheet together and something that resembles a plan. She needs some body work, and paint (I am hoping to get the equipment and do it myself), suspension work I'm sure, plus a rear end that will handle it etc.
After a few days of trying to figure out what size/type of motor I want to build I haven't made much head way. I know I want it NA, and over 400 cubes, somewhere around 550 to the groud. But I can't pin down a build that's the best bang for the buck. So I figured I'd open a thread, that's open to discussion. All opinions, biased or not, are welcome.
I don't have a bottomless pocket, but I am willing to do things slow, and correct.
Camaro will be driven 3-4 days a week, taken to the track a few times a year, I'd like her to be able to get up and move in a straight line, but also handle well on the street as well as make 1000 mile trips without blowing up. AC would be nice. As well as growing room in the future (boost).
... Damn I feel needy.
Thanks in advance guys
), getting the wife some nice things, I have approximately 6500 bucks that has been stamped APPROVED by the Mrs. for me to finally, finally, get around to rebuilding my high school car into the monster I've always dreamt it would be. AKA 400+ cube LS motor, T56 swap (its an auto), naturally aspirated, etc.Now before everyone starts telling me 6.5k wont get me real far, I understand, it's just the beginning. I have time, and a dedicated area, I won't get the vehicle to me for a few months (away at the parents place), but I'm trying to start getting a build sheet together and something that resembles a plan. She needs some body work, and paint (I am hoping to get the equipment and do it myself), suspension work I'm sure, plus a rear end that will handle it etc.
After a few days of trying to figure out what size/type of motor I want to build I haven't made much head way. I know I want it NA, and over 400 cubes, somewhere around 550 to the groud. But I can't pin down a build that's the best bang for the buck. So I figured I'd open a thread, that's open to discussion. All opinions, biased or not, are welcome.
I don't have a bottomless pocket, but I am willing to do things slow, and correct.
Camaro will be driven 3-4 days a week, taken to the track a few times a year, I'd like her to be able to get up and move in a straight line, but also handle well on the street as well as make 1000 mile trips without blowing up. AC would be nice. As well as growing room in the future (boost).
... Damn I feel needy.
Thanks in advance guys
03-21-2016, 11:55 PM
#3
My first car and hot rod was an 82 Camaro. I really miss that thing.
I just started a LS swap with a Dodge Dakota with my son. I had been planning this for a while now. Here's some starting suggestions for your build:
1 Scour the local classifieds for Express and Savana vans for sale in your area. 2003 and newer (2wd pickups are also good). If you are going to play with it, I'd suggest a 2500 or 3500 model so it has the 4L80E. The overdrive is worth it. You'll have almost everything you need for the conversion, and you can part out the rest of the van to make most of your money back.
2 Keep the factory PCM and have it flashed. I have a guy here locally who does great programming.
3 Plan your build. Know what you want to do. Forced induction or N/A? Then plan accordingly. Start shopping for your parts now, so you know where the best deals are when you finally make the purchase.
4 Spend some time on thirdgen.org as they have a large following. You will find some good rearend info there. Your best bet will probably be an 8.8 rear from an explorer.
I just started a LS swap with a Dodge Dakota with my son. I had been planning this for a while now. Here's some starting suggestions for your build:
1 Scour the local classifieds for Express and Savana vans for sale in your area. 2003 and newer (2wd pickups are also good). If you are going to play with it, I'd suggest a 2500 or 3500 model so it has the 4L80E. The overdrive is worth it. You'll have almost everything you need for the conversion, and you can part out the rest of the van to make most of your money back.
2 Keep the factory PCM and have it flashed. I have a guy here locally who does great programming.
3 Plan your build. Know what you want to do. Forced induction or N/A? Then plan accordingly. Start shopping for your parts now, so you know where the best deals are when you finally make the purchase.
4 Spend some time on thirdgen.org as they have a large following. You will find some good rearend info there. Your best bet will probably be an 8.8 rear from an explorer.
03-22-2016, 10:10 AM
#4
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408 stroker is up there in my list, as for a donor truck, I wouldn't be able to use the accessories, oil pan, etc in a third gen. I'm active on TGO, and posted there as well. I like getting opinions from both sides, since this is the LSX engine powerhouse on the web. Didn't think about an 8.8 rear, I'll have to research
C.
C.
03-22-2016, 10:21 AM
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price all of the swap stuff first (wiring, crossmember, motor mounts, radiator, etc) and see what you have left. If you go LS7 clutch (probably cheapest route) you'll have 500 into that, a t56 will be 1500 for a used one plus another 1000 or so to go through it. Doesn't leave much of the original 6500 left for the motor. Just be realistic with your budget because anyone who's done one will tell you that you'll end up close to double what you think.
03-22-2016, 06:34 PM
#6
price all of the swap stuff first (wiring, crossmember, motor mounts, radiator, etc) and see what you have left. If you go LS7 clutch (probably cheapest route) you'll have 500 into that, a t56 will be 1500 for a used one plus another 1000 or so to go through it. Doesn't leave much of the original 6500 left for the motor. Just be realistic with your budget because anyone who's done one will tell you that you'll end up close to double what you think.
As far as a donor van, like I mentioned, give it a shot. To start out with an engine you know runs, and all the stuff you can remove for a conversion, for much cheaper than a salvage yard unit is great. That's why I did it. A local shop that did a recent conversion, bought a junkyard engine and trans LQ4 from a yard for the conversion, complete, for $2,000. I paid $1300 for my van, and so far, sold $500 in parts. So I have $800 in the motor and trans. For a running LQ4/4L80E full conversion setup, that's damn good to me. With all the driving you plan to do with the car, I figured you definitely want an overdrive, and 4L80Es come in the 2500 and 3500 vans.
As far as a stroker goes, price out all the parts and be realistic before you commit. After adding head swaps, intake manifolds, and headers, a DENMAH style china turbo setup may be a better option financially, or just do a 6.0L instead of a stroker. What are your power goals? Hell, a turbo 4.8L could be built in your range no prob. I know of a van locally with a 4.8L/80E for $700. That's for the whole van! You could pull the motor/trans, part the rest, and make money in the end!!!!!
03-22-2016, 11:16 PM
#7
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price all of the swap stuff first (wiring, crossmember, motor mounts, radiator, etc) and see what you have left. If you go LS7 clutch (probably cheapest route) you'll have 500 into that, a t56 will be 1500 for a used one plus another 1000 or so to go through it. Doesn't leave much of the original 6500 left for the motor. Just be realistic with your budget because anyone who's done one will tell you that you'll end up close to double what you think.
I agree 100%. The budget dries up fast, and the nickel and dime stuff kills you in the end. If you have a total of $6500 for the entire project, you need to plan accordingly. Figure $2000 easily for the rearend swap, exhaust, fuel system, tuning. Depending on a forced induction setup, that will run you possibly about $800-$1000 in parts alone. I don't know if you plan on doing all the work and fabrication yourself. If you can, it will save you loads of cash. Try trading labor. If you can't weld, but know a welder, do some work for him, and I'm sure he'll take care of what you need (just an example).
As far as a donor van, like I mentioned, give it a shot. To start out with an engine you know runs, and all the stuff you can remove for a conversion, for much cheaper than a salvage yard unit is great. That's why I did it. A local shop that did a recent conversion, bought a junkyard engine and trans LQ4 from a yard for the conversion, complete, for $2,000. I paid $1300 for my van, and so far, sold $500 in parts. So I have $800 in the motor and trans. For a running LQ4/4L80E full conversion setup, that's damn good to me. With all the driving you plan to do with the car, I figured you definitely want an overdrive, and 4L80Es come in the 2500 and 3500 vans.
As far as a stroker goes, price out all the parts and be realistic before you commit. After adding head swaps, intake manifolds, and headers, a DENMAH style china turbo setup may be a better option financially, or just do a 6.0L instead of a stroker. What are your power goals? Hell, a turbo 4.8L could be built in your range no prob. I know of a van locally with a 4.8L/80E for $700. That's for the whole van! You could pull the motor/trans, part the rest, and make money in the end!!!!!
As far as a donor van, like I mentioned, give it a shot. To start out with an engine you know runs, and all the stuff you can remove for a conversion, for much cheaper than a salvage yard unit is great. That's why I did it. A local shop that did a recent conversion, bought a junkyard engine and trans LQ4 from a yard for the conversion, complete, for $2,000. I paid $1300 for my van, and so far, sold $500 in parts. So I have $800 in the motor and trans. For a running LQ4/4L80E full conversion setup, that's damn good to me. With all the driving you plan to do with the car, I figured you definitely want an overdrive, and 4L80Es come in the 2500 and 3500 vans.
As far as a stroker goes, price out all the parts and be realistic before you commit. After adding head swaps, intake manifolds, and headers, a DENMAH style china turbo setup may be a better option financially, or just do a 6.0L instead of a stroker. What are your power goals? Hell, a turbo 4.8L could be built in your range no prob. I know of a van locally with a 4.8L/80E for $700. That's for the whole van! You could pull the motor/trans, part the rest, and make money in the end!!!!!
). Keeping it NA, so heavy cam, decent heads, etc. As of right now I'm thinking I'm going to get all the conversion parts together, paint the car, then build the motor etc. But like I said earlier, on the off chance I get an opportunity I want to be ready. What rear end set up would be best? Like I said, 550 to the ground. Advice?
Thanks,
C.
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03-23-2016, 11:15 AM
#9
Buy a complete wrecked vehicle. LOTS of good ones with 2wd both trucks and cars to be had. Get one of the 6.2 engines (plenty with around 400hp to be found) and make sure the thing just runs, like drives on the lot. Starting there, you can see the health of the engine and have almost everything you need to get the swap running, which will keep you motivated. Get your swap kit assembled, including large tube primary headers. Get it all running properly, THEN go back in and figure out what will get your power and reliability goals. Lots of good ways to get to 450-500rwhp with fair reliability. Seriously, get it running first and then go back and hop it up. Staying motivated by driving a nice swap will do wonders for you and your satisfaction. If you lose motivation after months or years of an immobile lump puts you in a position to waste a ton of cash and sell it at a big loss for work or family reasons. BETTER ADVICE: If you want to make sure you keep a car for a while and not be forced to sell it before you want to, get something with four doors. I had a 98 with a cammed LS3 that I had to sell for these very reasons. If you're going to burn money on a hot rod (it's not an investment), do everything you can to make sure you keep it as long as you want...get it running as fast as you can and make it more practical than a 2 door. Your stash would make a great down payment on a gen 1 CTSV, a high mileage gen 2 CTSV, a G8 GT with some mods, or even an LS swapped BMW. Seriously, get something with 4 doors or you risk having to sell it prematurely.
03-23-2016, 11:37 AM
#10
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$6500 is a good start but it is all going to boil down to how wild you want to go. You can blow through the $6500 for a k-member, trans cross member suspension and rear end, clutch, headers and other minor parts for the swap. I would look for a wrecked or low dollar car on craigslist or copart. IMO the easiest route would be to find a 01-02 f body with a t56 and buy it, use what you need and part out the rest. Then find a used iron block to build for the wild motor. That way you can enjoy the car while building the new engine.
03-23-2016, 06:20 PM
#11
TECH Fanatic
When we were in the business I always told people that whatever they set as a budget to double it and add 20%. That would be just short of the total.
I am in my LS swap project for about $6000.00. I shopped long and hard for everything. I did all of the work myself except for the actual tune.
As you begin to gather parts remember that not all parts play well with others so do your research based on real actual driving examples.
Build the car that gets you cranked up or you will always be looking for the next project. Lord knows I speak from experience, this is one of 114, but I have had this the second longest of the entire group.
I am in my LS swap project for about $6000.00. I shopped long and hard for everything. I did all of the work myself except for the actual tune.
As you begin to gather parts remember that not all parts play well with others so do your research based on real actual driving examples.
Build the car that gets you cranked up or you will always be looking for the next project. Lord knows I speak from experience, this is one of 114, but I have had this the second longest of the entire group.
03-23-2016, 06:55 PM
#12
TECH Resident
WOW - 550 to the wheels in naturally aspirated trim sounds very optimistic.
550 crank horsepower even seems ambitious with a $6500 total build cost.
Still, I think you'll be happy with less power.
I have 350 horse to the wheels from a stock L92 and 3300 lb truck and 6 speed 6L80. It really scoots at least up to 100.
I think I got a great deal on my drivetrain and it was $2900 shipped to my door with pedal, computer, harness, all front end drive accessories, radiator (which was unusable), radiator hoses, trans, etc.
Little stuff eats up $ fast. fuel system, AN fittings, air cleaner, radiator, custom driveshaft, tuning, gauges.
With that power, you might want to upgrade brakes, wheels and tires, too.
I second the idea of shopping for a wrecked vehicle, say a modern camaro. You can part out what you don't use to offset the cost. You could canibalize most of it for your needs.
Maybe you could even swap in the IRS. Now that would be kick a$$
Doug
550 crank horsepower even seems ambitious with a $6500 total build cost.
Still, I think you'll be happy with less power.
I have 350 horse to the wheels from a stock L92 and 3300 lb truck and 6 speed 6L80. It really scoots at least up to 100.
I think I got a great deal on my drivetrain and it was $2900 shipped to my door with pedal, computer, harness, all front end drive accessories, radiator (which was unusable), radiator hoses, trans, etc.
Little stuff eats up $ fast. fuel system, AN fittings, air cleaner, radiator, custom driveshaft, tuning, gauges.
With that power, you might want to upgrade brakes, wheels and tires, too.
I second the idea of shopping for a wrecked vehicle, say a modern camaro. You can part out what you don't use to offset the cost. You could canibalize most of it for your needs.
Maybe you could even swap in the IRS. Now that would be kick a$$
Doug