msd 6010 box questions
#1
msd 6010 box questions
I'm assuming I need to power up the box to even put in the first setup into it? I'm trying to upload a graph and can't connect it to my home desktop, sure will suck to wheel this thing out to my buddies shop to upload it. Secondly, can someone tell me what their map curve looks like? I got 64-0 on one side and the degrees of timing on the other. I'd like to add 8 degrees extra timing to the map side and have the curve disappear at WOT what is the conversion units for the 64-0 into vacuum. Why would MSD even setup the software this way.
#3
TECH Addict
iTrader: (12)
Here's on of the posts i made
Buy the MSD 6010 the Edelbrock box isnt tunable and all of the timing pills have over 34 degrees timing which is WAY too much. LS1s like 28. Heres what i can tell you abou the MSD box. This is a PM i sent to an LS1tech member who asked me about my victor jr intake and msd box
Ok here we go. I plugged the rear vacuum port on mine.. You could use it for a brake booster or a PCV setup BUT any fitting will hit your carb really. The size of the fitting is 3/8" NPT. You can get those copper fittings from Lowes, Home depot any plumbing store. The hole on the side of the intake below the carb is 1/8" NPT. This is where i hooked up my MAP sensor. I took a piece of 1/8" threaded pipe, threaded it into there, then got a 5/16" or so vacuum hose and fit it over the threaded pipe and then connected that to my MAP sensor.
For a MAP sensor you can use a stock LS1 sensor or use a Map sensor from realy anything just as long as you get the connector for it. The MAP sensor allows you to add more timing at part throttle i.e. while cruising to keep your engine burning more efficiently for ecconomy and such. It is not neccessary.
The timing pills (your capsules) all have WAY too much timing. All of them have over 34 degrees of timing at WOT and LS1s usually dont like anymore than 28 or so. To tune the sofware you will need to download this software and buy a serial cable and a laptop that has a serial port OR you can get a USB to serial adapter cable from radioshack which is like $30.
http://www.msdpowersports.com/prodata_software.html
To tune it you will need to open a up a new map, search through the folders and look for one labeled "6010". That is the box you are using. This will bring up a table to tune with for your box. It starts as a line graph. You just drag the line up to the desired degrees of timing at the specified rpm. I have my base timing set at 15 degrees and going all in to 28 by 3000rpm. When tuning the sofware you must save your tune to the computer then upload to the msd box. You can monitor the engine live through your laptop too. It will tell you rpm, base timing, total timing, and your MAP pressure in PSI.
Heres the tricky part about tuning with the MAP sensor. It measures in PSI, not HG like most all vacuum measurements are. With the engine off the MAP will read something like 14.6psi. This is atmospheric pressure. When you start the engine you will get a reading like 8.6psi. This shows the engine is pulling 6psi vacauum (14.6-8.6=6psi). 1 psi is roughly equal to 2 inches mercury (HG). Here's a chart
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodiu...onversion.html
So once you get used to that you can now add timing based on engine vacuum. I added a total of 9 degrees timing with max vacuum. So when cruising i will have 28 degrees base timing and 38 total timing. The graph for the map sensor is the same tuning method. Rather than have RPM on the x axis it has PSI and on the y axis it has degrees timing advace. It's relitively simple to tune once you get the hang of it.
If you have the Edelbrock box you will not be able to tune the box.
Oh and for hooking up your harness it is labeled for your coil packs (1,3,5,7) on one connector (2,4,6,8) on the other. The cam sensor which is on the back of the engine (towards back of car) right on the lifter valley cover. The crank sensor is right behind you starter motor. Then you will need to add power which is the pink wire, the tach wire is yellow, and ground is black.
There is also an additional connector with two wires. The pink is a timing retard. When you give 12v to this wire your ignition timing will be retarded by whatever amount (4 degrees or whatever) you set when tuning it. This is for nitrous or whatever. To set the limit it is in the menu on the left of the screen that has rev limit and such. The other wire that is blue is a two step rev limiter. When you give 12v to this wire the engine will not rev above the 'lo rev' you set in your setup. This is for say launching or something. Depending on what MAP sensor you get too there is a menu option that says (1 bar, 2 bar, 3 bar) 1 bar is all you will need if you're not going boosted.
If you have any questions setting up your carb or timing or what to buy or for pictures feel free to email me at ShawnMacAnanny@earthlink.net . For a carburetor a 750 vacuum secondary works great. 72 primaries, 76 secondaries, 6.5 power valve, and you will need a 50cc accelerator pump for the off idle stumble you'll have with the large single plane intake. If your car is about 2800-3000lbs like mine use the short/long yellow spring (i cant decide which i like better the longer yellow makes me run a little more lean like 13.4 at WOT but seems to pull harder), if its 3200-3400 used the purple spring.
Buy the MSD 6010 the Edelbrock box isnt tunable and all of the timing pills have over 34 degrees timing which is WAY too much. LS1s like 28. Heres what i can tell you abou the MSD box. This is a PM i sent to an LS1tech member who asked me about my victor jr intake and msd box
Ok here we go. I plugged the rear vacuum port on mine.. You could use it for a brake booster or a PCV setup BUT any fitting will hit your carb really. The size of the fitting is 3/8" NPT. You can get those copper fittings from Lowes, Home depot any plumbing store. The hole on the side of the intake below the carb is 1/8" NPT. This is where i hooked up my MAP sensor. I took a piece of 1/8" threaded pipe, threaded it into there, then got a 5/16" or so vacuum hose and fit it over the threaded pipe and then connected that to my MAP sensor.
For a MAP sensor you can use a stock LS1 sensor or use a Map sensor from realy anything just as long as you get the connector for it. The MAP sensor allows you to add more timing at part throttle i.e. while cruising to keep your engine burning more efficiently for ecconomy and such. It is not neccessary.
The timing pills (your capsules) all have WAY too much timing. All of them have over 34 degrees of timing at WOT and LS1s usually dont like anymore than 28 or so. To tune the sofware you will need to download this software and buy a serial cable and a laptop that has a serial port OR you can get a USB to serial adapter cable from radioshack which is like $30.
http://www.msdpowersports.com/prodata_software.html
To tune it you will need to open a up a new map, search through the folders and look for one labeled "6010". That is the box you are using. This will bring up a table to tune with for your box. It starts as a line graph. You just drag the line up to the desired degrees of timing at the specified rpm. I have my base timing set at 15 degrees and going all in to 28 by 3000rpm. When tuning the sofware you must save your tune to the computer then upload to the msd box. You can monitor the engine live through your laptop too. It will tell you rpm, base timing, total timing, and your MAP pressure in PSI.
Heres the tricky part about tuning with the MAP sensor. It measures in PSI, not HG like most all vacuum measurements are. With the engine off the MAP will read something like 14.6psi. This is atmospheric pressure. When you start the engine you will get a reading like 8.6psi. This shows the engine is pulling 6psi vacauum (14.6-8.6=6psi). 1 psi is roughly equal to 2 inches mercury (HG). Here's a chart
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodiu...onversion.html
So once you get used to that you can now add timing based on engine vacuum. I added a total of 9 degrees timing with max vacuum. So when cruising i will have 28 degrees base timing and 38 total timing. The graph for the map sensor is the same tuning method. Rather than have RPM on the x axis it has PSI and on the y axis it has degrees timing advace. It's relitively simple to tune once you get the hang of it.
If you have the Edelbrock box you will not be able to tune the box.
Oh and for hooking up your harness it is labeled for your coil packs (1,3,5,7) on one connector (2,4,6,8) on the other. The cam sensor which is on the back of the engine (towards back of car) right on the lifter valley cover. The crank sensor is right behind you starter motor. Then you will need to add power which is the pink wire, the tach wire is yellow, and ground is black.
There is also an additional connector with two wires. The pink is a timing retard. When you give 12v to this wire your ignition timing will be retarded by whatever amount (4 degrees or whatever) you set when tuning it. This is for nitrous or whatever. To set the limit it is in the menu on the left of the screen that has rev limit and such. The other wire that is blue is a two step rev limiter. When you give 12v to this wire the engine will not rev above the 'lo rev' you set in your setup. This is for say launching or something. Depending on what MAP sensor you get too there is a menu option that says (1 bar, 2 bar, 3 bar) 1 bar is all you will need if you're not going boosted.
If you have any questions setting up your carb or timing or what to buy or for pictures feel free to email me at ShawnMacAnanny@earthlink.net . For a carburetor a 750 vacuum secondary works great. 72 primaries, 76 secondaries, 6.5 power valve, and you will need a 50cc accelerator pump for the off idle stumble you'll have with the large single plane intake. If your car is about 2800-3000lbs like mine use the short/long yellow spring (i cant decide which i like better the longer yellow makes me run a little more lean like 13.4 at WOT but seems to pull harder), if its 3200-3400 used the purple spring.
#4
thanks i finally downloaded a conversion chart. just to touch base with you the graph shows 6 degrees of added curve from 1psia until 6psia then at 15psia i have the curve dropping to zero which in my mind was 6 degrees of curve added from 27 inches of vacuum until 15ish and then dropping the added map curve down to 15psia which is 0 inches of vacuum.
#6
well that's why i assumed anything over the 14" or so this motor will make would still be the 6 degrees of timing added, since 27+6 would give me 33 total timing, seems that is as high as recommended to me. Then have the line slope down to zero degrees added at 15psia(zero inches vacuum). I have total timing at 3000rpm @ 27 degrees. With 25 degrees at 1000 or higher and 16 degrees base timing under 1000rpm for the starter to not kick back on a hot engine.
Trending Topics
#8
TECH Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sparta, Mo. in southwest Missouri
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
well that's why i assumed anything over the 14" or so this motor will make would still be the 6 degrees of timing added, since 27+6 would give me 33 total timing, seems that is as high as recommended to me. Then have the line slope down to zero degrees added at 15psia(zero inches vacuum). I have total timing at 3000rpm @ 27 degrees. With 25 degrees at 1000 or higher and 16 degrees base timing under 1000rpm for the starter to not kick back on a hot engine.
I'm going to catch a lot of flack on this, but you need to run more total advance than 27* to make power on a CARBURETED LS engine. All the GURUS on here will tell you to run 24-28*, and that is true on a Fuel Injected engine with a factory intake manifold, but not with a single plane carb type intake. Don't take my word for it. Search out the dyno tests of all the major engine builders and you will find that on a CARBURETED engine, they ALL run from 30-35* with the norm being around 32*. Check it out!! Ron
#10
TECH Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sparta, Mo. in southwest Missouri
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Shawn, back several months ago, Hot Rod ran a continuing test over a few months, on an LQ4 (I believe) Ken Dutweiller did all the tests on his dyno, and used HP Tuner on the initial tests. Started with stock 6.0 as installed in trucks. Worked in stages up to CARBURETED and even single plane with elbow and TB. He had something like 27-28* through all tests untill he installed the CARB setup He had to go to 35* for max power. He attributed it to the fact that the two manifolds had a different range where peak torque occurred. Way out of my range of expertise, LOL. I would be curious to know what GM used for total timing on their recent Crate motor shootout in the magazines.
#11
rojs i understand what you're saying and i completely agree. the map sensor is to keep from fouling plugs in day to day driving. Right now I have it setup for 27 degree total timing, when I hit the track I will add 1 degree at a time until max mph is found. Just figuring out the map curve was kinda backwards but i believe I have it setup for 6 additional degrees under high vacuum and 0 degrees added at wot.
#16
TECH Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sparta, Mo. in southwest Missouri
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I'm like *Roller406Bu*, mine is 10.5- 11.0 with aluminum block and L92 heads. 93 octane when I can get it, 32* and thinking of moving up a couple from 3500 on up.
#17
TECH Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sparta, Mo. in southwest Missouri
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
rojs i understand what you're saying and i completely agree. the map sensor is to keep from fouling plugs in day to day driving. Right now I have it setup for 27 degree total timing, when I hit the track I will add 1 degree at a time until max mph is found. Just figuring out the map curve was kinda backwards but i believe I have it setup for 6 additional degrees under high vacuum and 0 degrees added at wot.
#19
Ron I hear ya on running even more timing, my old sbc was 36' locked out and we ran another 10 degrees of timing with the vaccum curve on the ragged edge of pump gas. I wanted to start rather conservative and work my way up on this new combo. I still haven't seen many people running that much timing with an ls1 carb setup to feel comfortable to just put it to 32 instead of the 27 where I just uploaded it to the msd box. I'll take into consideration your numbers and probably move up to them in the spring time when I finally finish this build. thanks again, too bad there isn't a carb section with lists of people and their combo/timing settings etc.
#20
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ron I hear ya on running even more timing, my old sbc was 36' locked out and we ran another 10 degrees of timing with the vaccum curve on the ragged edge of pump gas. I wanted to start rather conservative and work my way up on this new combo. I still haven't seen many people running that much timing with an ls1 carb setup to feel comfortable to just put it to 32 instead of the 27 where I just uploaded it to the msd box. I'll take into consideration your numbers and probably move up to them in the spring time when I finally finish this build. thanks again, too bad there isn't a carb section with lists of people and their combo/timing settings etc.