anyone done a t5 on a ls2
orang-kr8 is correct. A T5 will never take the hp or torque of a gen III or gen IV motor. I tried several behind a mild gen I small block, kept blowing
3rd gear's. Now I run a Tremec TKO. Invest in a Tremec 5 or even 6 speed, you will save yourself a lot of headaces.
3rd gear's. Now I run a Tremec TKO. Invest in a Tremec 5 or even 6 speed, you will save yourself a lot of headaces.
Believe mine is a tko 500, might even be a 3050 (I think thats the one just below the TKO 500) Its behind a carbed, iron 6.0 .030 over, l92's etc. Nodular 9 inch with 3.50 gears. I've only got a couple of hundred miles on the motor but the Tremec has no problems. If you can get a T5 gauranteed to hold up for less money I would go for it. I only tried stock T5's and they were trash. Good luck!!
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A stock T5 is raged in the range of 260 to 285 ft/lbs of torque depending on it being a NWC or WC model (that is not a whole lot of torque).. Well it work and can it be bolted to a Gen III / IV engine?... Yes!... Will it hold up?.. depends on your right foot. But if you start stepping on it, what rear gearing, having a Heavy Car, adding lot of power.. well.. start looking for spares... have fun!
I keep a spare for my 84' Z28, it as a 350 running about 350hp at the flywheel. .I've done one in already.. that is why I keep the spare handy.
I keep a spare for my 84' Z28, it as a 350 running about 350hp at the flywheel. .I've done one in already.. that is why I keep the spare handy.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
These guys are correct in that the stock t5 is far from bullet proof. Keep in mind though that how a tranny lasts is dependant on more than just torque and power output. Useage plays a major roll... ie. drag racing and power shifting are very hard on a transmission. Vehicle weight is also a major factor.
T5's come in two basic varieties, non world class and world class. The non-world class boxes are not suitable behind any performance application. There is an out of the box ford transmission that is factory rated at 330ft/lbs that is documeted to stand up to 400+ hp mustangs. This trans would probably be ok behind a stock LS1 or 5.3 motor in a not too heavy car thats street driven. If your build is anything more, then you are probably going to need to look into the aftermarket. Check out AstroPerformance.com and gforcetransmissions.com Gforce for example builds a T5 that will support 600hp/500ftlb in a 3300lb car. These are not cheep.
T5s came in hundreds of different applications and one can be custom built to suit by a knowledgeable shop. There are variations shifter locations, input shafts, tail housings, gear sets, case bolt patterns, etc.
The T5 does have advantages over other more robust transmissions such as lower weight and better shifting... just make sure not to over do it.
As far as the swap itself goes, there are several ways to go. There are many different combinations of parts to make this work depending on what flywheel, bellhousing, trans and clutch combo you go with.
For example, you can use the GM conversion flywheel (168tooth) with a old school BBC bellhousing with a 3rd gen camaro box (munci bolt pattern) with a different tail shaft housing (the thirdgen box itself is standard but the bellhousing tips the trans 17 degrees and the shifter mount in the tail housing is also tipped to compensate.
You could also use a Ford T5 (square bolt pattern) with an adapter bellhousing from Quicktime or McLeod. Or do it with the afformentioned BBC bellhousing with an adapter plate.
There is even a 153 tooth flywheel that mcleod makes in conjunction with their special starter which would open you up to using SBC style bellhousings that wont take the larger 168 tooth flywheel.
There are probably a dozen different ways to skin this cat. No matter which way you go, you need to make sure you consider the input shafts engagement into the pilot bushing, the pilot busing diameter vs input shaft diameter, The register bore in the bellhousing vs the diameter of the bearing retainer, distance of the pressure plate from the transmission for throw out bearing engagement, etc.
When you get a better idea what method you want to take, I'll try to point you to the right direction.
T5's come in two basic varieties, non world class and world class. The non-world class boxes are not suitable behind any performance application. There is an out of the box ford transmission that is factory rated at 330ft/lbs that is documeted to stand up to 400+ hp mustangs. This trans would probably be ok behind a stock LS1 or 5.3 motor in a not too heavy car thats street driven. If your build is anything more, then you are probably going to need to look into the aftermarket. Check out AstroPerformance.com and gforcetransmissions.com Gforce for example builds a T5 that will support 600hp/500ftlb in a 3300lb car. These are not cheep.
T5s came in hundreds of different applications and one can be custom built to suit by a knowledgeable shop. There are variations shifter locations, input shafts, tail housings, gear sets, case bolt patterns, etc.
The T5 does have advantages over other more robust transmissions such as lower weight and better shifting... just make sure not to over do it.
As far as the swap itself goes, there are several ways to go. There are many different combinations of parts to make this work depending on what flywheel, bellhousing, trans and clutch combo you go with.
For example, you can use the GM conversion flywheel (168tooth) with a old school BBC bellhousing with a 3rd gen camaro box (munci bolt pattern) with a different tail shaft housing (the thirdgen box itself is standard but the bellhousing tips the trans 17 degrees and the shifter mount in the tail housing is also tipped to compensate.
You could also use a Ford T5 (square bolt pattern) with an adapter bellhousing from Quicktime or McLeod. Or do it with the afformentioned BBC bellhousing with an adapter plate.
There is even a 153 tooth flywheel that mcleod makes in conjunction with their special starter which would open you up to using SBC style bellhousings that wont take the larger 168 tooth flywheel.
There are probably a dozen different ways to skin this cat. No matter which way you go, you need to make sure you consider the input shafts engagement into the pilot bushing, the pilot busing diameter vs input shaft diameter, The register bore in the bellhousing vs the diameter of the bearing retainer, distance of the pressure plate from the transmission for throw out bearing engagement, etc.
When you get a better idea what method you want to take, I'll try to point you to the right direction.
Last edited by Dan_W; Jun 26, 2009 at 07:25 PM. Reason: removed url
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 76
Likes: 1
From: Ohio, USA
These guys are correct in that the stock t5 is far from bullet proof. Keep in mind though that how a tranny lasts is dependant on more than just torque and power output. Useage plays a major roll... ie. drag racing and power shifting are very hard on a transmission. Vehicle weight is also a major factor.
T5's come in two basic varieties, non world class and world class. The non-world class boxes are not suitable behind any performance application. There is an out of the box ford transmission that is factory rated at 330ft/lbs that is documeted to stand up to 400+ hp mustangs. This trans would probably be ok behind a stock LS1 or 5.3 motor in a not too heavy car thats street driven. If your build is anything more, then you are probably going to need to look into the aftermarket. Check out AstroPerformance.com and gforcetransmissions.com Gforce for example builds a T5 that will support 600hp/500ftlb in a 3300lb car. These are not cheep.
T5s came in hundreds of different applications and one can be custom built to suit by a knowledgeable shop. There are variations shifter locations, input shafts, tail housings, gear sets, case bolt patterns, etc.
The T5 does have advantages over other more robust transmissions such as lower weight and better shifting... just make sure not to over do it.
As far as the swap itself goes, there are several ways to go. There are many different combinations of parts to make this work depending on what flywheel, bellhousing, trans and clutch combo you go with.
For example, you can use the GM conversion flywheel (168tooth) with a old school BBC bellhousing with a 3rd gen camaro box (munci bolt pattern) with a different tail shaft housing (the thirdgen box itself is standard but the bellhousing tips the trans 17 degrees and the shifter mount in the tail housing is also tipped to compensate.
You could also use a Ford T5 (square bolt pattern) with an adapter bellhousing from Quicktime or McLeod. Or do it with the afformentioned BBC bellhousing with an adapter plate.
There is even a 153 tooth flywheel that mcleod makes in conjunction with their special starter which would open you up to using SBC style bellhousings that wont take the larger 168 tooth flywheel.
There are probably a dozen different ways to skin this cat. No matter which way you go, you need to make sure you consider the input shafts engagement into the pilot bushing, the pilot busing diameter vs input shaft diameter, The register bore in the bellhousing vs the diameter of the bearing retainer, distance of the pressure plate from the transmission for throw out bearing engagement, etc.
When you get a better idea what method you want to take, I'll try to point you to the right direction.
T5's come in two basic varieties, non world class and world class. The non-world class boxes are not suitable behind any performance application. There is an out of the box ford transmission that is factory rated at 330ft/lbs that is documeted to stand up to 400+ hp mustangs. This trans would probably be ok behind a stock LS1 or 5.3 motor in a not too heavy car thats street driven. If your build is anything more, then you are probably going to need to look into the aftermarket. Check out AstroPerformance.com and gforcetransmissions.com Gforce for example builds a T5 that will support 600hp/500ftlb in a 3300lb car. These are not cheep.
T5s came in hundreds of different applications and one can be custom built to suit by a knowledgeable shop. There are variations shifter locations, input shafts, tail housings, gear sets, case bolt patterns, etc.
The T5 does have advantages over other more robust transmissions such as lower weight and better shifting... just make sure not to over do it.
As far as the swap itself goes, there are several ways to go. There are many different combinations of parts to make this work depending on what flywheel, bellhousing, trans and clutch combo you go with.
For example, you can use the GM conversion flywheel (168tooth) with a old school BBC bellhousing with a 3rd gen camaro box (munci bolt pattern) with a different tail shaft housing (the thirdgen box itself is standard but the bellhousing tips the trans 17 degrees and the shifter mount in the tail housing is also tipped to compensate.
You could also use a Ford T5 (square bolt pattern) with an adapter bellhousing from Quicktime or McLeod. Or do it with the afformentioned BBC bellhousing with an adapter plate.
There is even a 153 tooth flywheel that mcleod makes in conjunction with their special starter which would open you up to using SBC style bellhousings that wont take the larger 168 tooth flywheel.
There are probably a dozen different ways to skin this cat. No matter which way you go, you need to make sure you consider the input shafts engagement into the pilot bushing, the pilot busing diameter vs input shaft diameter, The register bore in the bellhousing vs the diameter of the bearing retainer, distance of the pressure plate from the transmission for throw out bearing engagement, etc.
When you get a better idea what method you want to take, I'll try to point you to the right direction.
There are a lot of people running fast 1/4 miles with G-force and Astro T5s. One guy is running a 66 Mustang and doing 10.6x with a sub 1.7 second 60ft on slicks and his G-force street unit is a few years old...not too bad for these old Flexible Flyers, since it's a pain in the butt to get them to hook.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Thanks
I've spent about the last 6 months researching this stuff. I thought it was crazy that I couldnt find a consolodated source of this info. McLoed btw is a very good resource for this kind of thing... although I like quicktimes bellhousing better. I probably taked to Red Roberts at McLeod 5 times while I was working out what I needed. He drilled the flywheel for me with the Ford pressure plate pattern including dowel pins so I could use the out of the box mustang clutch. I wanted to use an aluminum small block bell housing to keep the firewall cutting to a minimum in my miata and to keep the weight down... so I went with McLeods 153 tooth flywheel. Great service at McLeod... a bit pricey but considering the low volume/semi custom nature of the parts its not too bad.
I also just so happened to pick up my tranny today from Tony at Astro Performance(the superduty ford one). Great guys... very customer oriented. I brought my bellhousing, flywheel and other parts with me and we talked in depth about the project, I got a chance to lay my hands on a bunch of different tranny parts, among other things he showed me a very trick adjustable pilot bearing that I had not heard of before, also got to check out some of their A5 Gears. I think in the future I may upgrade to their Road Race 5th Gear Set. I needed get my bearing retainer turned down to fit my bellhousing and they dropped everything and took care of it on the spot.
I've spent about the last 6 months researching this stuff. I thought it was crazy that I couldnt find a consolodated source of this info. McLoed btw is a very good resource for this kind of thing... although I like quicktimes bellhousing better. I probably taked to Red Roberts at McLeod 5 times while I was working out what I needed. He drilled the flywheel for me with the Ford pressure plate pattern including dowel pins so I could use the out of the box mustang clutch. I wanted to use an aluminum small block bell housing to keep the firewall cutting to a minimum in my miata and to keep the weight down... so I went with McLeods 153 tooth flywheel. Great service at McLeod... a bit pricey but considering the low volume/semi custom nature of the parts its not too bad.
I also just so happened to pick up my tranny today from Tony at Astro Performance(the superduty ford one). Great guys... very customer oriented. I brought my bellhousing, flywheel and other parts with me and we talked in depth about the project, I got a chance to lay my hands on a bunch of different tranny parts, among other things he showed me a very trick adjustable pilot bearing that I had not heard of before, also got to check out some of their A5 Gears. I think in the future I may upgrade to their Road Race 5th Gear Set. I needed get my bearing retainer turned down to fit my bellhousing and they dropped everything and took care of it on the spot.
Very well put. You said what I was going to say and added a bunch I didn't even know about. Heck, if I had known it was pretty easy to adapt a Ford T5 to an LSx, I'd have bought a 5.3 for my mustang instead of this crappy old truck motor I have.
There are a lot of people running fast 1/4 miles with G-force and Astro T5s. One guy is running a 66 Mustang and doing 10.6x with a sub 1.7 second 60ft on slicks and his G-force street unit is a few years old...not too bad for these old Flexible Flyers, since it's a pain in the butt to get them to hook.
There are a lot of people running fast 1/4 miles with G-force and Astro T5s. One guy is running a 66 Mustang and doing 10.6x with a sub 1.7 second 60ft on slicks and his G-force street unit is a few years old...not too bad for these old Flexible Flyers, since it's a pain in the butt to get them to hook.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
68 rs , nova 6.0 , dan w
thanks for everything you guys are great
another question my plan is a street/strip car around 3500-3250 pounds. it will be a mustang i will be doing alot of street driving to
i already have a 6.0 from a truck next i have to find out what trans i want i already have a t5 thats why i wanted to go this way cause if i can buy the g-force kit and do it my self it will save me around 1500 dollors...
next question is i can go with a
- quick time bellhousing
- built t5
- cable drivin
- which flywheel??
- clutch ???
- and what slpines
- anything im missing ??
- tail shaft and splines
-
thanks for everything you guys are great
another question my plan is a street/strip car around 3500-3250 pounds. it will be a mustang i will be doing alot of street driving to
i already have a 6.0 from a truck next i have to find out what trans i want i already have a t5 thats why i wanted to go this way cause if i can buy the g-force kit and do it my self it will save me around 1500 dollors...
next question is i can go with a
- quick time bellhousing
- built t5
- cable drivin
- which flywheel??
- clutch ???
- and what slpines
- anything im missing ??
- tail shaft and splines
-
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Assuming its a Fox mustang tranny you are starting with I think this is the bellhousing. BTW, I'm not a pro doing this for a living so make sure you verify any info I give.
Keep in mind that the Fox and SN95 mustang T5's have two different length input shafts.
quicktimeinc.com/products.html
RM-6037 - LS-1 Bellhousing to Ford TKO 500-600/TR3550/T5 Mustang Transmission
Height = 6.925
Trans. Bore Ø = Universal 4.850/4.910
Engine = Chevy LS-1, LS-2, LS-3, LS-6, LS-7, LS-9
Trans. = Ford TKO 500-600, TR3550, T5 Mustang
Clutch Ø = 11"
Flywheel = 168 tooth or 153 tooth
Weight = 22#
Full engine plate, trani ball and grade 8 bolts included
Keep in mind that the Fox and SN95 mustang T5's have two different length input shafts.
quicktimeinc.com/products.html
RM-6037 - LS-1 Bellhousing to Ford TKO 500-600/TR3550/T5 Mustang Transmission
Height = 6.925
Trans. Bore Ø = Universal 4.850/4.910
Engine = Chevy LS-1, LS-2, LS-3, LS-6, LS-7, LS-9
Trans. = Ford TKO 500-600, TR3550, T5 Mustang
Clutch Ø = 11"
Flywheel = 168 tooth or 153 tooth
Weight = 22#
Full engine plate, trani ball and grade 8 bolts included
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Quick time is probably the best source for the rest of the parts questions if that is your route... make sure you give them a call and post what they tell you.
Make sure they suggest what type flywheel to go with. It will probably be the stock LS type flywheel (they are all neutral balance) but it could also be the GMPP Adapter flywheel... This flywheel is designed to adapt a GM trans/bell to a LS motor. I think its face is .4" thicker in order to place the clutch/pressure plate in the correct position relative to the the input shaft. This is needed because the LS crank flange is closer to the motor than the old school small blocks crank flange. Not sure how this will translate with the Quicktime bell/T5. Ask Qucktime.
The flywheel could affect the way the outer part (friction surface) of the clutch disk mounts to the hub. Your clutch may end up being a custom piece but mcleod can build you what ever disk you need and put it on the correct hub to mate up to your input shaft. The hub for the mustang tranny should be 10 spline unless your aftermarket work to the tranny changes the input shaft. I think the stock LS clutches are 11" but check that info. You might be able to find an OEM disk... say 11" on a 10 spline hub that will work out of the box... if not... McLeod.
The Flywheel dictates what pressure plate you use... it will probably be the stock LS style.
The flywheel also affects the starter choice. Stock LS flywheel = Stock LS starter.
The pilot bearing is going to be custom... the LS pilot bearing hole is different than the ford. You will need an adapter pilot bearing... McLeod sells these (pricey at about $40) but I've also seen them elsewhere for about $20. If you have a reamer, you can modify a GM one at a cost of $5-$10.
The last part thats of consern is the TO bearing. You can go with an adjustable HYD unit that makes it a no brainer. There are several choices for these. There is also the cool adjustable fork bearing that I mentioned before that McLeod makes. Unless Quick time can give you exact part numbers, Your best bet is to get the flywheel, clutch, Pressure plate and tranny mocked up on the motor and check to see if the stock clutch fork/TO bearing works. It may work out just fine with an adjustable ball stud and save a lot of headache since the mustang uses the mechanical clutch linkage. If the adjustable ball stud route wont work, your looking at an adjustable TO bearing or adjustable Hyd TO bearing.
Not sure about the speedo question... my 93 mustang had an electronic speedo and I assume the 90 trans does also. From the way it lays out, it might directly adapt to a mechanical speedo but I'm just guessing. If not, I would bet there is a way to adapt the trans over to a mechanical speedo setup by mixing and matching stock parts. quote from the HAMB
"Just adding my 2 cents on this topic. I put a T5 from a Firebird into my 1984 El Camino. The Firebird had an electric speedometer and my El Camino is cable driven. Thought I was screwed here, but I found out that the early T5's had cable driven speedometer drives, so I got hold of one. Simply removed one bolt, pulled out the electric one, slid in the mechnical one, replaced the bolt and connect up my cable. Been working perfect for 5 years. "
FYI from the GMPP catalog pg 220
11569956
Flywheel Bolt (not shown)
• Requires 6 per engine
• For LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7 and L92 engines
• For manual transmission flywheels only
11505820
Flywheel Dowel (not shown)
• For all LS Series engines
The standard flywheels from GMPP are:
12571611 Flywheel for LS2, LS3 and LS7 Corvette engines
But you can also use an aftermarket one.
Make sure they suggest what type flywheel to go with. It will probably be the stock LS type flywheel (they are all neutral balance) but it could also be the GMPP Adapter flywheel... This flywheel is designed to adapt a GM trans/bell to a LS motor. I think its face is .4" thicker in order to place the clutch/pressure plate in the correct position relative to the the input shaft. This is needed because the LS crank flange is closer to the motor than the old school small blocks crank flange. Not sure how this will translate with the Quicktime bell/T5. Ask Qucktime.
The flywheel could affect the way the outer part (friction surface) of the clutch disk mounts to the hub. Your clutch may end up being a custom piece but mcleod can build you what ever disk you need and put it on the correct hub to mate up to your input shaft. The hub for the mustang tranny should be 10 spline unless your aftermarket work to the tranny changes the input shaft. I think the stock LS clutches are 11" but check that info. You might be able to find an OEM disk... say 11" on a 10 spline hub that will work out of the box... if not... McLeod.
The Flywheel dictates what pressure plate you use... it will probably be the stock LS style.
The flywheel also affects the starter choice. Stock LS flywheel = Stock LS starter.
The pilot bearing is going to be custom... the LS pilot bearing hole is different than the ford. You will need an adapter pilot bearing... McLeod sells these (pricey at about $40) but I've also seen them elsewhere for about $20. If you have a reamer, you can modify a GM one at a cost of $5-$10.
The last part thats of consern is the TO bearing. You can go with an adjustable HYD unit that makes it a no brainer. There are several choices for these. There is also the cool adjustable fork bearing that I mentioned before that McLeod makes. Unless Quick time can give you exact part numbers, Your best bet is to get the flywheel, clutch, Pressure plate and tranny mocked up on the motor and check to see if the stock clutch fork/TO bearing works. It may work out just fine with an adjustable ball stud and save a lot of headache since the mustang uses the mechanical clutch linkage. If the adjustable ball stud route wont work, your looking at an adjustable TO bearing or adjustable Hyd TO bearing.
Not sure about the speedo question... my 93 mustang had an electronic speedo and I assume the 90 trans does also. From the way it lays out, it might directly adapt to a mechanical speedo but I'm just guessing. If not, I would bet there is a way to adapt the trans over to a mechanical speedo setup by mixing and matching stock parts. quote from the HAMB
"Just adding my 2 cents on this topic. I put a T5 from a Firebird into my 1984 El Camino. The Firebird had an electric speedometer and my El Camino is cable driven. Thought I was screwed here, but I found out that the early T5's had cable driven speedometer drives, so I got hold of one. Simply removed one bolt, pulled out the electric one, slid in the mechnical one, replaced the bolt and connect up my cable. Been working perfect for 5 years. "
FYI from the GMPP catalog pg 220
11569956
Flywheel Bolt (not shown)
• Requires 6 per engine
• For LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7 and L92 engines
• For manual transmission flywheels only
11505820
Flywheel Dowel (not shown)
• For all LS Series engines
The standard flywheels from GMPP are:
12571611 Flywheel for LS2, LS3 and LS7 Corvette engines
But you can also use an aftermarket one.
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: MS Gulf Coast
Great information! I'm in the collection stage at the moment. T5Z to 5.3. Nice to know McLeod can work out some details. My biggest concern has been the proper placement of the disk/PP/flywheel using a Lakewood bell for a Ford T5 to SBC (sort of like what SOM68SS did recently). That GMPP flywheel seems like a prospect, but I think I'll call McLeod for assistance.
