06 TBSS Motor - ECU Options
08-10-2009, 03:50 PM
#1
06 TBSS Motor - ECU Options I recently picked up a LS2 motor/4L70E trans out of a 2006 TBSS. I plan on swapping this drivetrain as is into my 67 Chevy II. I do have the complete harness out of the truck, but not TCM, ECM, or DBW pedal. Rather than deal with the E40 ECM and T42 TCM I'm thinking the easiest route would be to pick up a cable 90mm throttle body, 99+ LS1 harness, and LS1 PCM.
Questions:
1) Is this the most cost effective route?
2) Do the TBSS intakes make decent power? I will possibly be running this motor with a moderately sized cam.
3) Do the injectors use different clips from an LS1 car?
4) Do the coil pack connectors use different clips from an LS1 car?
5) Since this is an 06 motor, I've been told it has the 24x wheel and I'm assuming this will work with the LS1 PCM. Is an adapter neccessary?
6) Are the other sensors (TPS, IAC, coolant, crank/cam sensors, etc) plug and play?
7) Will I need anything else? In addition to what is required above, I plan on picking up a MAF, F-body oil pan, 1 3/4" headers, and possibly a cam setup.
Thanks for all your help in advance.
Questions:
1) Is this the most cost effective route?
2) Do the TBSS intakes make decent power? I will possibly be running this motor with a moderately sized cam.
3) Do the injectors use different clips from an LS1 car?
4) Do the coil pack connectors use different clips from an LS1 car?
5) Since this is an 06 motor, I've been told it has the 24x wheel and I'm assuming this will work with the LS1 PCM. Is an adapter neccessary?
6) Are the other sensors (TPS, IAC, coolant, crank/cam sensors, etc) plug and play?
7) Will I need anything else? In addition to what is required above, I plan on picking up a MAF, F-body oil pan, 1 3/4" headers, and possibly a cam setup.
Thanks for all your help in advance.
Last edited by bad94sup; 08-10-2009 at 04:00 PM.
08-11-2009, 10:23 PM
#4
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hmmm...I see a couple things here, 1st, a 99-up stand-alone might be easier BUT...the ls2 uses a 58x crank trigger signal and the ls1 uses 24x. U can buy lingenfelters device, but it's just another "device" to be concerned with. U could swap the trigger wheel after removing the crank from the engine, and in the end this might be easier than all the DBW crap and tcu foolishness (especially the 4l70 with the input speed sensor).
08-12-2009, 12:39 AM
#5
If you already have the TBSS wiring harness, I would just pick up an E40, T42, and a pedal and go that route. The wiring is already there, all you gotta do is plug it in. The pedal is just 6 wires, two 5v references, two low references, and two signal wires back to the ECM. I have the 06 TBSS ECM pinout if you need any info.
The 06 TBSS is a 24x motor. The Lingenfelter module is not necessary. The 07+ TBSS uses the 58x crank, 4x cam, and E67 ECM.
Im pretty sure the TPS will not be plug and play. The TBSS is DBW so the throttle body connector has wiring for the TAC motor as well as the TPS. TBSS does not have IAC since it is DBW. Not sure about the injectors and coils.
The 06 TBSS is a 24x motor. The Lingenfelter module is not necessary. The 07+ TBSS uses the 58x crank, 4x cam, and E67 ECM.
Im pretty sure the TPS will not be plug and play. The TBSS is DBW so the throttle body connector has wiring for the TAC motor as well as the TPS. TBSS does not have IAC since it is DBW. Not sure about the injectors and coils.
Last edited by branndonw; 08-12-2009 at 01:50 AM.
08-12-2009, 03:49 PM
#6
Send an email to programming@PCMperformance.com and Alex can answer your questions.
hmmm...I see a couple things here, 1st, a 99-up stand-alone might be easier BUT...the ls2 uses a 58x crank trigger signal and the ls1 uses 24x. U can buy lingenfelters device, but it's just another "device" to be concerned with. U could swap the trigger wheel after removing the crank from the engine, and in the end this might be easier than all the DBW crap and tcu foolishness (especially the 4l70 with the input speed sensor).
If you already have the TBSS wiring harness, I would just pick up an E40, T42, and a pedal and go that route. The wiring is already there, all you gotta do is plug it in. The pedal is just 6 wires, two 5v references, two low references, and two signal wires back to the ECM. I have the 06 TBSS ECM pinout if you need any info.
The 06 TBSS is a 24x motor. The Lingenfelter module is not necessary. The 07+ TBSS uses the 58x crank, 4x cam, and E67 ECM.
Im pretty sure the TPS will not be plug and play. The TBSS is DBW so the throttle body connector has wiring for the TAC motor as well as the TPS. TBSS does not have IAC since it is DBW. Not sure about the injectors and coils.
The 06 TBSS is a 24x motor. The Lingenfelter module is not necessary. The 07+ TBSS uses the 58x crank, 4x cam, and E67 ECM.
Im pretty sure the TPS will not be plug and play. The TBSS is DBW so the throttle body connector has wiring for the TAC motor as well as the TPS. TBSS does not have IAC since it is DBW. Not sure about the injectors and coils.
I'll have to pull the harness off my donor motor soon so I can take a closer look.Thanks to all for all of the input this far.
08-13-2009, 02:15 AM
#7
The ISS sucks. Its used to measure input shaft speed. Here is the description for it:
The Automatic Transmission Input Speed Sensor (AT ISS) Assembly is a hall-effect sensor that produces an input speed signal as the turbine shaft rotor teeth pass in front of the sensor tip.
The AT ISS is made of a permanent magnet with an iron pole piece and an integrated circuit (IC) chip with a two-element transducer molded into a plastic housing. The two-element transducer functions as an on/off switch by sensing changes in the magnetic field strength. The dual element design greatly increases the sensor's switching accuracy.
Because the turbine shaft is splined to the torque converter, it spins at engine speed. As the turbine shaft spins, the rotor teeth pass in front of the sensor tip, changing the magnetic field. As a result, the transducers are sensing high and low magnetic signals. The IC chip will then amplify and filter the high and low signal. Therefore, whenever the engine is running, the sensor will produce high and low signals proportional to turbine shaft speed. The more rotor teeth passing by the sensor's magnetic field in a specific amount of time, the faster the turbine shaft is spinning.
The ISS assembly is attached to the pump cover with the tip of the sensor passing though the stator shaft and sleeve. The ISS mounting bolt passes through a steel insert and into a threaded hole in the pump cover. The ISS wiring harness is routed and secured to the pump cover with clip-on brackets. At the transmission control module (TCM), the signal is electronically converted and is interpreted as transmission input speed. The TCM uses transmission input speed together with the transmission output speed to provide shift energy and torque management capabilities, improved shift quality (feel), increased TCC function, gear ratios that are more accurate and enhanced transmission diagnostics.
When you install a higher stall torque converter in the TBSS, you lose your speedo on hard launches until you let up on the throttle. This happens because the higher stall is generating a greater ISS signal then it would normally see at that same speed, therefor the ISS vs. VSS is now out of range of what the TCM expects it to be. This causes the TCM to default to a 0 vss output to the ECM. As soon as you let off the throttle, the ISS signal comes back into range with the VSS and the speedo immediately starts working.
DONT pay $50 for the Accelerator Pedal Position connector. Click the link below. Its $16.50. Its the 14th one down. Black 6 Pin Female Sealed GT 150 Push-to-seat. Various LS2 Accelerator Pedals.
http://currentperformance.com/Connectors/LS2_LS7.html
The pedal does need to match the ECM. However, I do know for a fact that the 05 SSR (LS2) pedal does work on my 08 TBSS. So the 05-06 SSR pedal should also work on yours as well. Your best bet would be to just get the pedal for the 06 TBSS. I also know that the 4.2L Trailblazer pedal will not work either. Not sure about the 5.3L pedal.
Another good thing about running the TBSS ECM and TB is that since it is DBW, the cruise control is integrated into the ECM and you wont need to install a seperate cruise control module. You'll just need to connect your switch to the ECM.
The Automatic Transmission Input Speed Sensor (AT ISS) Assembly is a hall-effect sensor that produces an input speed signal as the turbine shaft rotor teeth pass in front of the sensor tip.
The AT ISS is made of a permanent magnet with an iron pole piece and an integrated circuit (IC) chip with a two-element transducer molded into a plastic housing. The two-element transducer functions as an on/off switch by sensing changes in the magnetic field strength. The dual element design greatly increases the sensor's switching accuracy.
Because the turbine shaft is splined to the torque converter, it spins at engine speed. As the turbine shaft spins, the rotor teeth pass in front of the sensor tip, changing the magnetic field. As a result, the transducers are sensing high and low magnetic signals. The IC chip will then amplify and filter the high and low signal. Therefore, whenever the engine is running, the sensor will produce high and low signals proportional to turbine shaft speed. The more rotor teeth passing by the sensor's magnetic field in a specific amount of time, the faster the turbine shaft is spinning.
The ISS assembly is attached to the pump cover with the tip of the sensor passing though the stator shaft and sleeve. The ISS mounting bolt passes through a steel insert and into a threaded hole in the pump cover. The ISS wiring harness is routed and secured to the pump cover with clip-on brackets. At the transmission control module (TCM), the signal is electronically converted and is interpreted as transmission input speed. The TCM uses transmission input speed together with the transmission output speed to provide shift energy and torque management capabilities, improved shift quality (feel), increased TCC function, gear ratios that are more accurate and enhanced transmission diagnostics.
When you install a higher stall torque converter in the TBSS, you lose your speedo on hard launches until you let up on the throttle. This happens because the higher stall is generating a greater ISS signal then it would normally see at that same speed, therefor the ISS vs. VSS is now out of range of what the TCM expects it to be. This causes the TCM to default to a 0 vss output to the ECM. As soon as you let off the throttle, the ISS signal comes back into range with the VSS and the speedo immediately starts working.
http://currentperformance.com/Connectors/LS2_LS7.html
The pedal does need to match the ECM. However, I do know for a fact that the 05 SSR (LS2) pedal does work on my 08 TBSS. So the 05-06 SSR pedal should also work on yours as well. Your best bet would be to just get the pedal for the 06 TBSS. I also know that the 4.2L Trailblazer pedal will not work either. Not sure about the 5.3L pedal.
Another good thing about running the TBSS ECM and TB is that since it is DBW, the cruise control is integrated into the ECM and you wont need to install a seperate cruise control module. You'll just need to connect your switch to the ECM.
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08-13-2009, 07:12 AM
#8
Wow, thanks for all the great info. I really apprciate it. Maybe I'll be keeping the DBW setup after all. Since you seem to be the TBSS expert, I'll pick your brain with just a few more questions.
1) Do you have a pinout listing for the TBSS ECU?
2) Can I use ANY pedal out of a TBSS with my PCM, or does it have some kind of VIN key that has to match?
3) Where is the best place to buy the ECM/TCM and pedal? Ebay? What are reasonable prices to pay?
4) What are our options for upgrading the TB/Intake while keeping the DBW? I'm assuming once the motor has been cammed, it will need some more room to breath.
5) Any other known 'issues' with the 4L70 that would prevent future modifications? I was highly contemplating running a 4L80 in the near future.
Thanks again,
Andrew
aschutsky@verizon.net
1) Do you have a pinout listing for the TBSS ECU?
2) Can I use ANY pedal out of a TBSS with my PCM, or does it have some kind of VIN key that has to match?
3) Where is the best place to buy the ECM/TCM and pedal? Ebay? What are reasonable prices to pay?
4) What are our options for upgrading the TB/Intake while keeping the DBW? I'm assuming once the motor has been cammed, it will need some more room to breath.
5) Any other known 'issues' with the 4L70 that would prevent future modifications? I was highly contemplating running a 4L80 in the near future.
Thanks again,
Andrew
aschutsky@verizon.net
08-13-2009, 12:17 PM
#9
Wow, thanks for all the great info. I really apprciate it. Maybe I'll be keeping the DBW setup after all. Since you seem to be the TBSS expert, I'll pick your brain with just a few more questions.
1) Do you have a pinout listing for the TBSS ECU?
2) Can I use ANY pedal out of a TBSS with my PCM, or does it have some kind of VIN key that has to match?
3) Where is the best place to buy the ECM/TCM and pedal? Ebay? What are reasonable prices to pay?
4) What are our options for upgrading the TB/Intake while keeping the DBW? I'm assuming once the motor has been cammed, it will need some more room to breath.
5) Any other known 'issues' with the 4L70 that would prevent future modifications? I was highly contemplating running a 4L80 in the near future.
Thanks again,
Andrew
aschutsky@verizon.net
1) Do you have a pinout listing for the TBSS ECU?
2) Can I use ANY pedal out of a TBSS with my PCM, or does it have some kind of VIN key that has to match?
3) Where is the best place to buy the ECM/TCM and pedal? Ebay? What are reasonable prices to pay?
4) What are our options for upgrading the TB/Intake while keeping the DBW? I'm assuming once the motor has been cammed, it will need some more room to breath.
5) Any other known 'issues' with the 4L70 that would prevent future modifications? I was highly contemplating running a 4L80 in the near future.
Thanks again,
Andrew
aschutsky@verizon.net
2)Any pedal from a TBSS should work. Safest bet would be to get one for an 06. They are not VIN specific.
3)I buy my ECMs from PCMforless.com. You can probably pick up the pedal from the dealer for around $100.
4)I wouldn't change the stock intake. There are tons of guys running cams on that intake with no problems. Talk to Alvin at PCMforless. He has an 07 TBSS and offers several cams for it. He is also good at tuning them. I am running his tune in my 08.
5)The 4L70 in the TBSS was a bad idea since the TBSS is so heavy. You probably wont have as much problem in your application because you probably wont be quite as heavy. The AWDs are worse due to the added traction. If you want to upgrade, call rpmtransmissions.com and order their level 6, its bulletproof.
One other thing, the are 2 different E40 ECMs. The only way to tell is by the service number. The 05 E40 was different than the 06. If you load an 05 file into an 06 E40 or vice versa, it will kill the ECM. When you buy your E40, make sure that it is the 06 service number 12596679. The 05 service number is 12597883. Also if you buy the ECM/TCM from PCMforless, they can load it with the current GM calibration for the TBSS. Just go on ebay and get a VIN number for any 06 TBSS and give it to PCMforless and they will load the ECM for you.
Last edited by branndonw; 08-13-2009 at 12:25 PM.
