BFK86

iTrader: (1)

As I was saying before I think the hub swap will honestly be cheaper for you unless you find a set of used wheels like what I have on my car..too bad I didn't know about this sooner I have a friend who was getting rid of his 5x4.25 chrome 17x9 cobra rs with decent tires for $500..which is a good deal if you ask me.

If you add up the cost of the hub swap it really shouldnt be too expensive sn95 front hubs are $100 for a set new, depending how you go about redrilling the rear hubs and rotors it could either be free if you do it or even if you use the jig method, that was only $50 on ebay..plus new rear wheel studs which is dirt cheap and two hub centric rings for the rear which are also in expensive..so say maybe $200-$250 worth of parts for the swap..then if you could get a set of used stang wheels with good tires for maybe $300 (which is realistic) that's easily cheaper than buying thunderbird pattern aftermarket wheels and new tires. Ive found many sets of those 96/97 cobra wheels up for sale on ebay or craigslist for around $300 with tires..trick would be find somekne local to avoid shipping.

As far as the 05+ mustang wheels go like I said they have more of an offset and are more similar to fwd style offset wheels than the earlier 94-04 wheels which depending on width, tend to stick out past the fender on thunderbirds. You may get lucky and check with a few local ford dealers and get a set of brand new take off wheels that a customer replaced with different wheels..happens quite frequentlyand dealers usually sell them for pretty cheap..eitherway you have quite a few options..I'd do anything to get rid of the stockers though.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I think you are right, the price of the custom 5x4.25 wheels alone eats pretty far into the budget... and you still have no tires. Even worse, you are stuck with a set of wheels that won't fit anything else... thanks Ford. The hub swap is looking better and better.

Is this the ebay drill jig you are talking about? The guy calls himself Rotten Leonard. With some patience it looks like a possible route. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lug-pattern-drill-guide-5x4-25-to-5x4-5-4-75-1-2-3-4-nt-wheel-spacer-adapter-/221217673104?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338199cf90&vxp=mtr
The stock 15" wheels were replaced ages ago by Lincoln 16" wheels. The crazy part is I want a factory looking wheel so I can keep the "factory option" (aka sleeper) look to the exterior of the car.

BFK86

iTrader: (1)

That's the one, funny you say that about keeping the stockers (forgot you put the cougar snow flakes on) for the sleeper look..I've thought about that same thing if I hub swap mine..but you could always slot the lug holes ever so slightly to the 5x4.5 pattern. There's a guy on the mark viii forum that took a set of 99 GT wheels and slotted the holes to make fit on the stock hubs but I believe it only works with certain designs of wheels with specific lug nuts.

BlueMaxCougar

Gofastwclass,you can use '99 cobra mustang hubs on the back.They came with a similar rear end that our cars have.It requires new bearings and pressing the hubs on/off.Then change over to sn95 mustang hubs on the front.Mustang wheels are way cheaper than custom mn12 spec wheels.

I haven't even touched my car due to some health complications.I am gathering more info and parts as money allows.

Gofastwclass,I have a few more questions.You been a great help and excellent source of info.Did you keep the truck oil pan?I'm concerned with the pan hitting the ground when I layout the car.I've decided to bag the car.Can the a/c compressor be left in the factory location,low passenger side?I know new lines will be needed.My car needs them anyway,they are cracking.Will there be any issues modifying the truck alt bracket to lower the alt down a little?I'm trying to keep all the GM stuff I can on the engine.I'm also trying to stay under the stock hood which is a little tighter on my 90 Cougar than your 97 Bird.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I haven't been able to find the Cobra hubs for sale for a "reasonable" price. The few times I've seen them the seller thinks they are made from some precious metal more valuable than gold or titanium. I'll drill the current hubs before I spend $250 per side. If you know of a set for sale that are reasonable, I'll buy them.

Sorry about the health stuff. Being healthy is a prize worth more than money in my eyes.

The truck pan is a no go. I used the GM Performance Parts Muscle Car Oil Pan Kit for $145. I bought it direct through my local GM Performance Parts dealer but you can get them at Jegs and Summit. It looks like the Summit price is higher this week but they swap prices all the time. Don't pay much more than $150 for it, there are vendors who sell them for that all day long. The GMPP pan fit my car exceptionally well and only hung down at one small point about 1/8" which I ground off when the car bottomed out at speed. Now it is completely flush with the cross member. The GMPP pan comes with an adapter for a Gen IV filter (WIX Part number 57060) and everything you will need to make it a painless swap. I have about 1/4" or less between the pan and the top of the cross member.

I'm using the GM factory AC location for my alternator and the V6 AC unit is up high almost where it was. The AC is stayed where it is because I didn't want to recharge the system and my truck compressor was damaged in the wreck. There is no way to mount the alternator on the factory truck bracket and clear the hood on my car and I think I have about 3/4" more room than you do. When I tried it, I couldn't even close the hood all the way.

All of my accessories are about to change because I want to make the easier to work on. Right now, there are too many tools required for a simple belt change.

BlueMaxCougar

Thanks for the info.I will be shopping for that oil pan.I can't wait to see your accessory bracket redo.Will you be using GM brackets or more one offs?And yep,you got 3/4 to 1 inch more clearance under the hood than me.Clearance depends on weather or not you keep the hood insulating mat.I am considering loosing mine since the LS runs cooler than the boat anchor coming out.Oh,Holley has a alt bracket that lowers the alt and keeps it up on the driver side.I will be running one A/C compressor up where you are and one down in the stock location to air up the suspension.My entire A/C and heating system is in dire need of a complete rebuild.Hoses are cracking and leaking.I'm pretty sure the dryer is hashed and the compressor is locked up.Pulley still spins thankfully.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I'm planning on making my own brackets again. It keeps with the low-budget / do-it-yourself theme. Besides no one makes a bracket for the giant compressor that came on the car and I don't want to mess with recharging an AC system that works flawlessly.

I was working on the car for some unrelated stuff tonight and snapped a couple pics so you could see what I'm talking about on the oil pan. Keep in mind that my car is lowered two plus inches all the way round and I drive it everywhere.

These photos are a bit crappy because it was dark before I got the idea to take pictures. I rarely take pictures while I'm working and always regret it.

Groundhog view coming from the driver's headlight direction. The lowest point by a long shot is the exhaust which could easily be higher.



Under the car from the transmission looking forward. The red circle is the bit I scrubbed off when I hit the crown in the road with the suspension fully compressed from an unexpected dip. The rest of the pan was completely untouched and actually sits a bit above the crossmember. I would have put a straight edge on it but didn't think about it until now. You can also see where I notched the factory crossmember a bit to let the oil drain.


I should have grabbed another shot of how close the pan is to the frame. People don't believe me when I tell them, but I felt it was the only way the engine was going to fit without modifying the hood. I have the skill or could have purchased an aftermarket hood, but it wasn't in the budget (or desire). I felt changing the hood lines would start to attract attention which is the opposite of what the car is supposed to be.

On a completely unrelated topic: I re-discovered tonight that the fuel feed line is 5/16" not 3/8" which sucks. GM uses 5/16" returns and 3/8" feeds where this car is 5/16" for both. I knew this when I built the car but now I'm planning some upgrades and re-discovered that design flaw. I need to look at the Mark VIII's and V8 Thunderbirds in the wrecker's yard tomorrow or Sunday to see if they use bigger fuel feed lines.

BlueMaxCougar

Thanks.That is really good info.I appreciate it a lot.That's a good tip on those fuel lines and notching the sub frame to allow the oil to drain.My car being older,I wonder if it has dual 5/16 inch fuel lines.I'll be double sure to check.I am pretty much going the same direction as you.After I get everything in and running,I'll go for the go fast goodies.

I had a thread around here asking about frame pan clearance.After seeing your info on how close the pan is to the sub frame,I'm confident I will have no issues with clearance running poly mounts.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

Not a problem. If there is anything else you have a question about or want a picture of just let me know. There are tons of undocumented things in the car and I forget about them all until someone asks how or why I did it.

For engine mounts I use the typical Gen I / II small block poly mounts (Energy Suspension 3.1114G) and make an adapter to fit them to the Gen III / IV engines because it's a compact setup. I built one car using rear control arm bushings as engine mounts and it worked fine, but I usually don't have those laying about. Besides, in a pinch I can go to any parts store and get a replacement for the SBC engine mounts - even if they have to be rubber.

I built these for a friend but the same concept is what I used for the Thunderbird.


I just used a regular rubber mount as a mock up because I had some on the shelf.


I'm about to modify some upper control arms for the rear so I can fix an alignment issue I've had since I lowered the car. The factory setup doesn't allow for enough positive camber adjustment with my new ride height and I need to gain about 2.6 degrees according to the alignment sheet. I bought a spare set of uppers ages ago for this project but life got in the way. When I extend them tomorrow I'll take lots of pictures and post them up.

BlueMaxCougar

I was thinking about some of those dingo adjustable mounts and poly camaro SBC clam shells.I'm trying to avoid welding while keeping the engine low and back.I want to keep that good balance these cars are known for.

I think there are some fixes over on TCCOA or SCCOA for the rear camber issue.If I'm not mistaken there are camber bolts or offset bushings for the spindles or LCAs.My plan is MVIII lowers with aftermarket air springs in the rear and new MVIII struts upfront.I'm going to run an engine mounted compressor for the air suspension.My plan is to lay flat out when parked.Then have three settings:1) Stock height 2) Performance height 2 inches down 3) Loaded balance to keep the car level and close to stock height.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I can't say anything about the Dirty Dingo mounts, but I can tell you there is pretty much a narrow range of where the engine will fit without trimming something. Move it too far back and you block the heater hoses, too far forward (bad for handling) means you have to cut the engine cradle. You will also have to make a custom transmission crossmember to get everything to fit. Since fabrication is normal for my other projects, making engine mounts was nothing but time and materials.

From a balance thing... this car lost weight compared to the V6 I replaced. I lowered the car before the swap and had to cut more from the front coils afterward. I posted a picture of the overall weight from a truck scale several pages back. With less weight on the nose, the car handles better than it did from the factory. Hahaha.

There may be camber bolts or offset bushings available - but I can modify my spare upper control arms and have them on before dinner if I started after I ate lunch. If my rough measurements from yesterday are right, I'll need to swing the arm 1/4" outward which I don't see happening with offset bolts. Lincoln lowers are in the works but each time I see a set, I'm there for something more important, rare or time consuming and can't grab them. They have been on the pickup list for a long time.

Interesting on the air suspension. Why an engine driven compressor, aren't they big? I would use a Mark VIII compressor or an aftermarket electric one. This will be smaller, lighter and something you could place anywhere from a weight distribution angle.

BlueMaxCougar

My reason is dependability and quick recovery times.They are larger but not that much heavier than twin electrics.Mopar used a small aluminum V twin unit that was low profile and has a smaller overall size than the big York comps that the 4x4 guys run.It also gives more cfm being a true 2 stage compressor and high psi.I would post a pic but it appears to be lost in my files somewhere.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I see. Which vehicles have the compressor you are referring to? I can find specs and pictures if I know what it came from. Depending on how large the compressor is, it could work for a friend.

I did a little cutting and welding yesterday but stopped early because of other previously scheduled engagements. I'll finish and install them tonight after work. I may throw in my rebuilt 8.8 diff too.

Start with Mark VIII uppers:






Cut and knocked the paint off with a wire wheel:


Support tabs to tack everything together with:


Install as shown:


Welding the gap... first pass of three:


In the process of making it look factory:

BlueMaxCougar

It is a Mopar RV-2 or RV2.All I know is it came off full size luxo cars.Some of the info I posted earlier may be wrong.I am going on hear say.I have never seen one of these.I have dealt with the old Ford Yorks.They are hard to beat.




Did the control arm need shortening?Could the non bushing hole be redrilled and then the end of the arm trimmed back as needed for clearance?

BlueMaxCougar

more RV2 info.

http://ramchargercentral.com/engine/...851044d2226284

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the link on the pumps, I'll read it later tonight. I have seen these in the salvage yard and didn't realize people used them for on board air. My only concern is the size, I'm simply not sure where I would put it.

If you could place the AC in the factory truck spot, the air pump up high and the alternator low on the driver's side with the power steering up high (think modified F-Body) setup it may have a chance.

Next summer I'm switching to an F-Body pulley (I'm using a truck pulley now) along with a host of other changes. This means I'll have to make an entire new front drive setup, but that's ok.

The control arms need to be lengthened a minimum of 1/4" (almost 7mm) to compensate for how far my car is lowered. I have a camber problem in the rear causing the tops of the tires to lean in toward the body. It's not enough to see unless you know what you are looking at and amazingly it doesn't kill the tires, but it does hurt straight line traction. I've had this issue for more than four years so it really isn't a rush but I'm motivated and have the time right now.

Initially I was going to extend the uppers 1/4" and call it good but I remembered the alignment adjusters are nearly maxed out so I stretched them closer to 10 or 11mm. This should put me somewhere in the middle of the adjustment range which should make my alignment guy happy. For whatever reason the front has enough adjustment in it so I didn't have to move anything.

BlueMaxCougar

The M VIII air struts fit up front with a little work.I need to find the info on this again.Out back,I want to use the M VIII LCAs and aftermarket air springs.

I use Aurora a FireFox based browser.I recently started using ScrapBook to save web pages for future reference.Just thought I'd pass this along.it's helped me out the last couple weeks.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I thought about doing the under drive thing but passed on it long ago. I only want the F-Body spacing for clearance. Since I have to re-design the front drive I may well move it back to F-Body depth (.75" closer to the engine) at the same time. This will make some other things easier to work on.

I still have too much rear camber (I'm at 2.6 degrees) for great cornering. The car corners well for what it is but the center of gravity on these cars is higher than one would think. The drive line sits very high in the vehicle - that is why you can use the H3 (Muscle Car Pan) and not have to cut it. I'm much more a corner freak than a straight line guy and this should help that too. Honestly it never got loose unless I was stupid in a turn but the stability and more even tire wear are what I'm after. I do a fair amount of burnouts like I'm 16 in this car, they make me smile.

I can't remember, but I think my car is close to three inches down from factory.

I'm thinking of making the spare tire well a sub enclosure for a single 10. I don't care about bass but I want a full sound and all the factory speakers are shot so it's time for an upgrade. I'm a big fan of trunk space and moving the battery to the trunk has already started to bug me - and it's only been a few weeks. Hahaha.

I just started using Chrome again, I was on FireFox for a long time but a thing for my job won't work on it after their upgrade (at my job). They want everyone to use IE. I may give Aurora a go and see what happens.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I forgot to add I didn't accomplish much because I spent most of the evening talking to my hot rod neighbors who came by because I had the garage doors open.

I did finish grinding and painting my newly extended rear upper control arms. I also cleaned and resealed the 8.8 posi diff I grabbed from the yard ages ago.

I ran a gear mesh pattern on the 8.8 and it looks absolutely perfect plus there were almost no shavings on the magnet. The bad part is it's a 3:23 LSD which is what I already have only in a weaker 7.5. Since the setup is absolutely spot on (it had been rebuilt with new Ford gears before the salvaged car was wrecked with 240K) I can't justify tearing into it just to go to 3:4x or 3:5x gears which is as high as I'll go on this car. I'll run it until the posi gets weak, then strip it and move to a more fun gear ratio.

If it stays dry I'll install the control arms and "new" posi tomorrow after work.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

Yesterday I finally had enough dry time to install my custom upper control arms and 8.8 differential. I didn't take pictures because everything still looks just like the previously posted photos only painted black.

The posi in the 8.8 diff works spot on unlike the worn out 7.5 unit I had.

This morning I went to the fourth different alignment shop this car has been to since I've owned it (second time at this location). When the car came off the alignment rack I was pleased to find the rear suspension was all able to be placed within spec for the first time since I owned the car (long story pre-dates lowering and engine swap).

Anyway, enough babbling. here are a pair of scans of the alignment as of today. Sorry about the scan quality...

The first scan is the alignment when I took it to the shop and discovered the rear camber was 2.2 and 2.6 degrees out.


Now we have the alignment within spec after my custom extended upper rear control arms.


Both setups were with a full tank of gas and after moving the battery to the trunk.