My 67 Camaro Build/Photos
12-22-2011, 11:27 PM
#141
As Alvin my tuner put it, "its the perfect storm". My large intake ports, 112LSA with the duration, and the low compression LQ4 pistons all play a part in a bad combination. I am only pulling 4 inches of vacuum at idle depending on where the idle is set. At 1050 rpms I am still only pulling 6 inches. He says I need to be around 15 so its making for a bad tune. If I had cathedral ported heads= no problem, if I had a smaller cam= no problem, if I had higher compression pistons= no problem. So I am going to remedy it all at once, 408 with 11.25-11.5:1 compression and a larger cam with the same heads. Of course this was an expensive lesson learned!!! Best of luck to ya and hope the New Year brings us some better luck for sure!!!
01-08-2012, 02:08 PM
#143
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Hi..I am from Europe...I have one LS1 engine in my garage and has 806 head castings ...are this heads ok or I should seek for some better...I will use this with supercharger...thank everyone for help..
01-11-2012, 05:59 PM
#144
The heads can be self-ported, but if you're looking for optimum performance, I would recommend placing your question in the "Forced Induction" category.
There are people there who can give you better advice than I.
01-11-2012, 06:28 PM
#146
1/11/12>>Time for an update...
At last post, I had found silver-speckled bearing material in the oil & filter & zero oil pressure.
Because money is an issue right now, sending the motor out to be repaired is not an option. Also, I'd like the experience of repairing/changing the bearing(s) myself, as long as the motor doesn't need machining. So, there are some unknowns at this time.
In addition, cold weather is here, and although there is now a propane heater in the garage, it can still get quite cold there. Last year, the temperature hovered around -0- degrees while the waterpump, pwr steer pump and heater core, & steering gear were replaced.
Anyhow, I'm cringing at the thought of pulling the motor. As careful as I've been, scratches are showing up in the engine bay. All of the accessories, manifold are removed. The plan was to troubleshoot without removing the heads, to save money on TTY bolts & new gaskets.
So far, there has been success! I was able to verify that there is no damage to the upper rotating assy....the cam, lifters, pushrods, springs, rockers, & most of all, the bearings. I learned that the cam bearings are brass, or a material that looks like brass. If I had known this in advance, I prob would not have bothered looking at these, because the damaged material is silver-like, & non-magnetic.
From here, the plan is still to repair without removing the engine....if possible. The trick will be to remove the oil pan without raising/removing the engine. This may not be possible. The oil pan has been lowered, and it will be a tight fit to remove, so that the windage tray can be removed, and troubleshooting can proceed. It's still possible that the stands can be loosened enough to raise the engine without removing. The caveat will be whether there is damage to rods or crank.
While fishing around for a bolt dropped into the pan, my fingers came up with more silver speckles, plus a thin layer of dark black gunk. A blob of this gunk was found (magnetically) sticking to the oil pan (empty) bolt. Not sure what the dark gunk might be....would anyone have some input?
Because spring in CT is a couple of months away, there is no pressure to get her fixed immediately.
Thanks, all...your help has gotten me far!
At last post, I had found silver-speckled bearing material in the oil & filter & zero oil pressure.
Because money is an issue right now, sending the motor out to be repaired is not an option. Also, I'd like the experience of repairing/changing the bearing(s) myself, as long as the motor doesn't need machining. So, there are some unknowns at this time.
In addition, cold weather is here, and although there is now a propane heater in the garage, it can still get quite cold there. Last year, the temperature hovered around -0- degrees while the waterpump, pwr steer pump and heater core, & steering gear were replaced.
Anyhow, I'm cringing at the thought of pulling the motor. As careful as I've been, scratches are showing up in the engine bay. All of the accessories, manifold are removed. The plan was to troubleshoot without removing the heads, to save money on TTY bolts & new gaskets.
So far, there has been success! I was able to verify that there is no damage to the upper rotating assy....the cam, lifters, pushrods, springs, rockers, & most of all, the bearings. I learned that the cam bearings are brass, or a material that looks like brass. If I had known this in advance, I prob would not have bothered looking at these, because the damaged material is silver-like, & non-magnetic.
From here, the plan is still to repair without removing the engine....if possible. The trick will be to remove the oil pan without raising/removing the engine. This may not be possible. The oil pan has been lowered, and it will be a tight fit to remove, so that the windage tray can be removed, and troubleshooting can proceed. It's still possible that the stands can be loosened enough to raise the engine without removing. The caveat will be whether there is damage to rods or crank.
While fishing around for a bolt dropped into the pan, my fingers came up with more silver speckles, plus a thin layer of dark black gunk. A blob of this gunk was found (magnetically) sticking to the oil pan (empty) bolt. Not sure what the dark gunk might be....would anyone have some input?
Because spring in CT is a couple of months away, there is no pressure to get her fixed immediately.
Thanks, all...your help has gotten me far!
Last edited by gMAG; 01-11-2012 at 06:48 PM.
01-11-2012, 06:35 PM
#147
Thanks!
I had a good laugh...or surprise might be a better word, when visiting the garage last week where the car was painted.
The owner was eager to show me someone else's LS1 adaptation. When I looked at the other car, it had the same paint as mine. At least, it looked like mine.
The shop owner remarked that the other guy's paint was 'similar' to mine!
Anyway, I took that as a compliment.
I should have trademarked my paint, as it was supposed to be a one-off! lol
I had a good laugh...or surprise might be a better word, when visiting the garage last week where the car was painted.
The owner was eager to show me someone else's LS1 adaptation. When I looked at the other car, it had the same paint as mine. At least, it looked like mine.
The shop owner remarked that the other guy's paint was 'similar' to mine!
Anyway, I took that as a compliment.
I should have trademarked my paint, as it was supposed to be a one-off! lol
01-11-2012, 09:12 PM
#148
Just curious, did the transmission mate up to your engine with ease? My concern would be this, if the input shaft bottomed out in the crank or at the pilot bearing it could have put pressure on the thrust bearing. This would explain the silver filings but not the magnetic ones. With such a low mileage engine there shouldnt be any bearing wear. Did you change the o-ring at the oil pump/pick up tube? You may have used the wrong oring as there a couple of different types. This would cause little to no oil pressure and hence, bearing failure. Was the engine making any unusual noises? I figure the lifters had to be ticking without oil pressure to take up the lash. If the lifters were not ticking then are you sure you have no oil pressure or a faulty gauge? Just throwing a few ideas out there. How did you check the lifter condition without pulling the heads? No wear on the sides of the push rods? Did you pull the cam? Are you running a stock timing chain or did you opt for the double roller? Using the double roller may have caused a couple of problems 1) it is rubbing the inside of the front cover-silver filings 2) oil pump spacers maybe bleeding off oil pressure from a poor seal. All this is speculation but areas of concern. I say pull it and look everything over really well. I dread pullling my engine once the stroker is finished. A few years ago I would have been excited to have a new engine but now its almost like a job!!! Best of luck to ya. Let us know what you find out.
01-12-2012, 11:07 AM
#149
Just curious, did the transmission mate up to your engine with ease? My concern would be this, if the input shaft bottomed out in the crank or at the pilot bearing it could have put pressure on the thrust bearing. This would explain the silver filings but not the magnetic ones. With such a low mileage engine there shouldnt be any bearing wear. Did you change the o-ring at the oil pump/pick up tube? You may have used the wrong oring as there a couple of different types. This would cause little to no oil pressure and hence, bearing failure. Was the engine making any unusual noises? I figure the lifters had to be ticking without oil pressure to take up the lash. If the lifters were not ticking then are you sure you have no oil pressure or a faulty gauge? Just throwing a few ideas out there. How did you check the lifter condition without pulling the heads? No wear on the sides of the push rods? Did you pull the cam? Are you running a stock timing chain or did you opt for the double roller? Using the double roller may have caused a couple of problems 1) it is rubbing the inside of the front cover-silver filings 2) oil pump spacers maybe bleeding off oil pressure from a poor seal. All this is speculation but areas of concern. I say pull it and look everything over really well. I dread pullling my engine once the stroker is finished. A few years ago I would have been excited to have a new engine but now its almost like a job!!! Best of luck to ya. Let us know what you find out.
Yes, the trans went in without a hitch.
The oil pressure issue has always been evident...it never followed rpm, and, imo, was never adequate/high enough.
At first, I thought that the filings might be from inside the billet oilpump. When the pump was changed recently, pressure remained at zero. The o-rings which were supplied by Melling were 1)green & 1)black. I used the green one, which was recommended. The green one is a tighter fit than the blue one which was removed along with the orig pump. I think when the Melling is re-installed, that orig blue one will be reused. But, in either case, that o-ring was in there correctly.
There was some lifter clatter when the trouble appeared. The gauge is a mechanical, and the noise(s) coincided with the 4lbs/& later, zero pressure.
The entire upper rotating assy was checked without removing the heads.
Pushrods, rockers, cam were pulled & inspected, as were the cam bearings (inspection, only...easy to see, once the cam is out). The lifter metal is magnetic. None of the specks are magnetic.
Timing chain is a single, and the cover has no wear.
If I can just get that darned oil pan off, I may be able to fix it without removing the engine.
I'll post again, as soon as I know one way or the other.
Thanks, tsnow!
Dr. Glenn
01-14-2012, 09:29 AM
#150
Sorry I couldn't be of any help. Just throwing a few ideas around. If the oil pressure was an issue from the start and you have replaced the oil pump twice then I would agree that the bearings are the culprit. There is one more thing that could cause some oil pressure concerns, that the dumbell inside the rear cover. I am sure you are familiar with it. I wonder if the problem didnt start there and spread its love to the bearings via low or no oil pressure. The dumbell, if you are not familiar with it, blocks the incoming and outgoing oil from the filter through the two long passages that run the length of the block from the front to the back. If the dumbell isnt sealing properly two things happen, 1) lack of oil pressure 2) dirty oil goes right back into the engine bypassing the oil filter. I know you do not want to pull the engine but to repair it correctly I would yank it and totally disassemble it. I understand about the paint job as my paint is only a couple of years old and the thoughts of a 600lb engine dangling over it wasnt pleasing. I ended up pulling the old engine, installing the new assembly at least 5 or 6 times before getting it where I wanted it. I didnt even nick the paint. Just be precautious and you will be fine. All of the above is just my opinion and please dont take it in a negative way whatsoever!!! Thanks Tony
01-15-2012, 10:21 PM
#151
Sorry I couldn't be of any help. Just throwing a few ideas around. If the oil pressure was an issue from the start and you have replaced the oil pump twice then I would agree that the bearings are the culprit. There is one more thing that could cause some oil pressure concerns, that the dumbell inside the rear cover. I am sure you are familiar with it. I wonder if the problem didnt start there and spread its love to the bearings via low or no oil pressure. The dumbell, if you are not familiar with it, blocks the incoming and outgoing oil from the filter through the two long passages that run the length of the block from the front to the back. If the dumbell isnt sealing properly two things happen, 1) lack of oil pressure 2) dirty oil goes right back into the engine bypassing the oil filter. I know you do not want to pull the engine but to repair it correctly I would yank it and totally disassemble it. I understand about the paint job as my paint is only a couple of years old and the thoughts of a 600lb engine dangling over it wasnt pleasing. I ended up pulling the old engine, installing the new assembly at least 5 or 6 times before getting it where I wanted it. I didnt even nick the paint. Just be precautious and you will be fine. All of the above is just my opinion and please dont take it in a negative way whatsoever!!! Thanks Tony
Every bit of info is good and appreciated!
Thinking back, I recall the kids next door distracting me as new ARP rod bolts were being installed. When this happened, I accidentally removed both bolts at the same time on one rod cap. They should be changed one at a time. Now I'm wondering if I dislodged the bearing on this particular cap?? This also fits the timeline for low oil pressure.
Also, while I've read that many people have changed to ARPs without resizing the rods, I did not resize them. This could be a problem as well.
Thanks for your ideas!
Last edited by gMAG; 01-15-2012 at 10:27 PM.
01-16-2012, 01:08 PM
#152
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I did not resize my rods with arp rod bolts,do far no issues!i need to change oil and see if all is good!gmag,that sucks,I feel for u!!if my short block ever goes I'm plan on ordering a Texas speed!
01-29-2012, 08:24 PM
#157
Things are moving slow, but more success!
After zero oil pressure, the upper rotating assy has been proven good, without removing the heads
The goal is to get lucky, and to repair the engine without removing it. We'll see!
Today, I was able to extract the oil pan by raising the engine & tranny slightly. At first, the pan was stubborn & caught on the studs exiting the first main cap. A dremel was used to cut the two studs. The pan would still not come out. Afterward, the pan was hung up on the front lobe of the crank. Hence the reason for lifting the engine.
Upon examination, the pan has several shards which look like bearing material. There was even a piece of what looked like a bearing tang. I'm guessing that I'll find a spun/torn rod bearing. There is also some dark black crud. I don't know what it is. Do you?
Tommorrow, the splash shield comes off & visual inspection begins.
Anyhow, here are a couple of pics.
After zero oil pressure, the upper rotating assy has been proven good, without removing the heads
The goal is to get lucky, and to repair the engine without removing it. We'll see!
Today, I was able to extract the oil pan by raising the engine & tranny slightly. At first, the pan was stubborn & caught on the studs exiting the first main cap. A dremel was used to cut the two studs. The pan would still not come out. Afterward, the pan was hung up on the front lobe of the crank. Hence the reason for lifting the engine.
Upon examination, the pan has several shards which look like bearing material. There was even a piece of what looked like a bearing tang. I'm guessing that I'll find a spun/torn rod bearing. There is also some dark black crud. I don't know what it is. Do you?
Tommorrow, the splash shield comes off & visual inspection begins.
Anyhow, here are a couple of pics.
01-30-2012, 03:55 AM
#158
Dang!!! I hate you are having to tear into it so prematurely. Hopefully the spun bearing didn't damage the journal too bad. I am just glad the bearing gave up and saved the rod from bending 90 degrees and poking holes. Best of luck to ya on this issue as I know this was not the expected results of doing the swap. Trying to work around subframe cannot be an easy task either.
02-01-2012, 11:28 AM
#159
Just got done diagnosing the engine from underneath.
It appears that #2, 4, & 7 rod bearings, especially the notorious #7, is/are toasted.
I'm gonna guess that the dark sludge in the pan is partially cooked oil from #7.
So, from here, it doesn't make sense to attempt a half-baked repair from underneath. If 3 of the rod bearings are gone, it would make sense that others are not in good shape.
As best as I can tell, the bores look in great shape.
Time to perform an engine-ectomy and repair this the proper way!
It appears that #2, 4, & 7 rod bearings, especially the notorious #7, is/are toasted.
I'm gonna guess that the dark sludge in the pan is partially cooked oil from #7.
So, from here, it doesn't make sense to attempt a half-baked repair from underneath. If 3 of the rod bearings are gone, it would make sense that others are not in good shape.
As best as I can tell, the bores look in great shape.
Time to perform an engine-ectomy and repair this the proper way!