Lsx/T56 Mazda Rx8 Build Thread.. Pics inside
01-05-2013, 11:23 AM
#41
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Very nicely done!! Indeed it is not difficult to get the engine in there since there is more room than you would think with that tiny renesis but anyways i'll copy what i wrote in another thread to hopefully get a broader audience. These will be questions that those interested in this swap might also have.
Anyways, hope this finds everyone well.
As many here and @ rx8club have said they really want this swap to be easier i.e. a kit.
I'm not here to boast about how i'm going to do it and potentially fail and look like an ***, but rather collect information and hopefully get some questions answered regarding the swap.
As a person I usually prefer to learn how to do something before trying it instead of going in blind and end up fubared.
So I will say that i know the rx8 platform enough to avoid stealerships, the engine, the wiring diagram, etc however i don't know the ls1 platform (obviously i will study the platform before attempting the swap).
With that being said i can affirmatively say that mounting the trans and engine will not be a difficult task for my person. I would however like to discuss the electrical side of things in order to have a seamless swap. Someone on here did mention to keep the original computer in and use it's sensors to work the cluster abs etc, that's exactly what i was thinking!
Now for some questions that i hope a member can enlighten on.
What would be the easiest way to have the ls1 computer control the fuel pump while having the rx8 computer read the fuel level? I took the relay out of my car and used the LS1 ecm to control power to the fuel pump but did nothing else to this part.
For the tachometer how would one mount the eccentric shaft position sensor (this is how the rx8 gets the rpm's) onto the crankshaft? does the ls have a crankshaft sensor? could the rx8 wires be spliced into the ls crankshaft sensor and have the same readout as the eccentric one while the LS gets it's own rpm input? The LS does have this sensor and working out the ohm's to insure their the same now!
For the oil level sender how can the rx8 oil level sender which is in the oil pan be placed inside? drill through and weld shut around a rubber filled rod? The F-body pan has this sensor already not sure of the other pans. Same ohm's just splice wires
For the rx8 vehicle speed is needed for the cruise control if the ls1 computer doesn't get the vehicle speed input from the ABS system how would it go about controlling this? would it be wise to splice into those wires from the ABS and feed them into the ls1 pcm input for speed? or better to attach another vss to the front right caliper. (ABS vss for the rx8 is on the left) This was not something I needed for my build
should the rx8 air compressor be used for A/C and fab a mount for it? I used the LS1 and spliced the wires. All you need is power on/off nothing special.
would you trust the rx8 coolant temperature sensor to handle the cooling fans and the ls1 water pump to move the water? fortunately ls1 runs colder than the renesis. I used the RX8 sensor only to make the gauges work. I used the LS1 ecm to control my fans.
should a t-splitter be used for both the ls1 and rx8 oil pressure sender to read to both pcms? Same with the coolant temperature sensor? I did the same thing with this as I did with the coolant. I used the RX8 sensor and made the gauges work.
If splicing will produce the same voltage and ohms going to both computers then it would be very easy to go this route, but i'm no electrician.
with all these questions answered the swap wouldn't be that difficult unless something important is missing.
sorry for the long post btw
there needs to be more v8 rexes out there
Anyways, hope this finds everyone well.
As many here and @ rx8club have said they really want this swap to be easier i.e. a kit.
I'm not here to boast about how i'm going to do it and potentially fail and look like an ***, but rather collect information and hopefully get some questions answered regarding the swap.
As a person I usually prefer to learn how to do something before trying it instead of going in blind and end up fubared.
So I will say that i know the rx8 platform enough to avoid stealerships, the engine, the wiring diagram, etc however i don't know the ls1 platform (obviously i will study the platform before attempting the swap).
With that being said i can affirmatively say that mounting the trans and engine will not be a difficult task for my person. I would however like to discuss the electrical side of things in order to have a seamless swap. Someone on here did mention to keep the original computer in and use it's sensors to work the cluster abs etc, that's exactly what i was thinking!
Now for some questions that i hope a member can enlighten on.
What would be the easiest way to have the ls1 computer control the fuel pump while having the rx8 computer read the fuel level? I took the relay out of my car and used the LS1 ecm to control power to the fuel pump but did nothing else to this part.
For the tachometer how would one mount the eccentric shaft position sensor (this is how the rx8 gets the rpm's) onto the crankshaft? does the ls have a crankshaft sensor? could the rx8 wires be spliced into the ls crankshaft sensor and have the same readout as the eccentric one while the LS gets it's own rpm input? The LS does have this sensor and working out the ohm's to insure their the same now!
For the oil level sender how can the rx8 oil level sender which is in the oil pan be placed inside? drill through and weld shut around a rubber filled rod? The F-body pan has this sensor already not sure of the other pans. Same ohm's just splice wires
For the rx8 vehicle speed is needed for the cruise control if the ls1 computer doesn't get the vehicle speed input from the ABS system how would it go about controlling this? would it be wise to splice into those wires from the ABS and feed them into the ls1 pcm input for speed? or better to attach another vss to the front right caliper. (ABS vss for the rx8 is on the left) This was not something I needed for my build
should the rx8 air compressor be used for A/C and fab a mount for it? I used the LS1 and spliced the wires. All you need is power on/off nothing special.
would you trust the rx8 coolant temperature sensor to handle the cooling fans and the ls1 water pump to move the water? fortunately ls1 runs colder than the renesis. I used the RX8 sensor only to make the gauges work. I used the LS1 ecm to control my fans.
should a t-splitter be used for both the ls1 and rx8 oil pressure sender to read to both pcms? Same with the coolant temperature sensor? I did the same thing with this as I did with the coolant. I used the RX8 sensor and made the gauges work.
If splicing will produce the same voltage and ohms going to both computers then it would be very easy to go this route, but i'm no electrician.
with all these questions answered the swap wouldn't be that difficult unless something important is missing.
sorry for the long post btw
there needs to be more v8 rexes out there
-Matt
Last edited by MDoffroad; 01-06-2013 at 10:37 PM.
04-01-2013, 10:23 AM
#43
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THis thread is awesome. I just joined to respond to this thread. I have an 04 rx8 and I am very interested in doing this too. The info in this thread is invaluable, thanx to all of you.
04-11-2014, 09:12 PM
#46
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If you are looking for headers for the swap. I have a set of Hinson headers that I tried to fit for a different swap that I would sell for much less than the $935 they sell for if interested.
They were just used to mock up. Never been on a running car. They are brand new other than a few finger prints.
They were just used to mock up. Never been on a running car. They are brand new other than a few finger prints.
04-27-2014, 01:17 AM
#47
UPDATE...finally lol Hey all, its been awhile, and alot has happened like getting engaged, graduating, and finally working full time so the swap got put on hold for while...Finally however i have had time and money to get things rolling. This is what i got accomplished today...first time working back on the car in sadly 2-1/2 years or so..felt good lol.
-Brief summary of where i am at before i start spamming pictures...Was gonna go the 5.3 (LM7) cheaper route so i started piecing together pieces like the motor, ls6 intake, 243 heads, 228R 112 LSA Camshaft...ect around the past 2-3 years so when i had the time i would be ready. However plans change!
Got a killer deal on a low milage LS1/T56 pullout from a 2004 GTO...and this thing is beautiful lol. Complete from oil pan to intake.
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Clutch, fylwheel, T56 all running great before pull so im optimistic.
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The pullout also came with the complete pedal assembly, throttle linakge, clutch linkage/slave cylnider, PCM, Maf, ect...
These are some of the swap parts/hardware i have been collecting over the past couple years in preparation for the project.
Crossmember from hinson
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Bad pic but torque arm from Hinson, installed on the rear diff..then the front is just on jacks because i didnt have time for that today.
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Steering rack relocation, drops the rack about 2, 2-1/2 inches, mounts are from Hinson as well.
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another shot of the steering rack relocation, feel like this pic gives a better idea of the clearance needed to clear the ls oil pan.
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Also had to relocate the front sway bar due to the rack coming down 2 inches or so, sway bar mounts...passenger and driver side.
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Also started test fitting the bump steer kit...here is just a shot of it on the steering rack.
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Didnt seem to be fitting correctly, but it was the end of the day and i was exhausted so im gonna look at it and im sure figure it out tomorrow. Then updates will follow.
Here is a couple close ups on the bump steer kit nice looking pieces
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Started looking into the bump steer fitment issue...so i started measuring the tie rod end bolts to see if there was noticeable differences. The OEM tie rod bolt diameter is 14.85mm at its widest, and is 41.68mm long.
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While the bump steer tie rob end has a bolt assembly that measures 15.49mm in diameter at its widest, and 34.33mm long (starting from 14.85mm diameter, it tapers down from threads to 15.49mm at the base)
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I dont really know what to make of it honestly..judging by the numbers the bump steer tie rod end bolt is over half a mm wider at the base over the OEM tie rod bolt, 0.64mm to be exact, and 7.35mm shorter. Guess i will just see what im gonna do tomorrow haha. Hope yall enjoy the update i know its been long overdue!
-Brief summary of where i am at before i start spamming pictures...Was gonna go the 5.3 (LM7) cheaper route so i started piecing together pieces like the motor, ls6 intake, 243 heads, 228R 112 LSA Camshaft...ect around the past 2-3 years so when i had the time i would be ready. However plans change!
Got a killer deal on a low milage LS1/T56 pullout from a 2004 GTO...and this thing is beautiful lol. Complete from oil pan to intake.
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]Clutch, fylwheel, T56 all running great before pull so im optimistic.
[IMG]
[/IMG]The pullout also came with the complete pedal assembly, throttle linakge, clutch linkage/slave cylnider, PCM, Maf, ect...
These are some of the swap parts/hardware i have been collecting over the past couple years in preparation for the project.
Crossmember from hinson
[IMG]
[/IMG]Bad pic but torque arm from Hinson, installed on the rear diff..then the front is just on jacks because i didnt have time for that today.
[IMG]
[/IMG]Steering rack relocation, drops the rack about 2, 2-1/2 inches, mounts are from Hinson as well.
[IMG]
[/IMG]another shot of the steering rack relocation, feel like this pic gives a better idea of the clearance needed to clear the ls oil pan.
[IMG]
[/IMG]Also had to relocate the front sway bar due to the rack coming down 2 inches or so, sway bar mounts...passenger and driver side.
[IMG]
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Also started test fitting the bump steer kit...here is just a shot of it on the steering rack.
[IMG]
[/IMG]Didnt seem to be fitting correctly, but it was the end of the day and i was exhausted so im gonna look at it and im sure figure it out tomorrow. Then updates will follow.
Here is a couple close ups on the bump steer kit nice looking pieces
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]Started looking into the bump steer fitment issue...so i started measuring the tie rod end bolts to see if there was noticeable differences. The OEM tie rod bolt diameter is 14.85mm at its widest, and is 41.68mm long.
[IMG]
[/IMG]While the bump steer tie rob end has a bolt assembly that measures 15.49mm in diameter at its widest, and 34.33mm long (starting from 14.85mm diameter, it tapers down from threads to 15.49mm at the base)
[IMG]
[/IMG] I dont really know what to make of it honestly..judging by the numbers the bump steer tie rod end bolt is over half a mm wider at the base over the OEM tie rod bolt, 0.64mm to be exact, and 7.35mm shorter. Guess i will just see what im gonna do tomorrow haha. Hope yall enjoy the update i know its been long overdue!
04-27-2014, 08:48 PM
#48
More Progress!! Made some good progress today, however when i woke up this morning to pick up where i left off last night...I noticed my Air Compressor's drain/relief bolt was leaking by. Anyway had to make a trip to the Lowes and fix it. I think it came out great, and now is even better/ easier to drain.
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Clearance looks great, think it ended up pretty good. Now onto the car progress. Got the bump steer tie rod ends worked out...just had to do a little grinding to get the tie rod end bolt to fit.
Passenger
driver side
Got the crossmember, and torque arm installed today. Looks pretty rigid.
Got the front sway bar fully bolted in and relocated. Clearance looks good.
Passenger Side
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Drivers Side
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Im at a point now where the majority of parts i have gathered for my swap are already bolted on the car...so now im off to order some parts to finish up the mounting/fuel system.. Then it will be time to drop that bad boy in!! I'll update again soon. Just for kicks this is how it sits now with all the front suspension work done, and frame/rear end bracing complete.
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[/IMG]Clearance looks great, think it ended up pretty good. Now onto the car progress. Got the bump steer tie rod ends worked out...just had to do a little grinding to get the tie rod end bolt to fit.
Passenger
driver side
Got the crossmember, and torque arm installed today. Looks pretty rigid.
Got the front sway bar fully bolted in and relocated. Clearance looks good.
Passenger Side
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[/IMG]Drivers Side
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[/IMG]Im at a point now where the majority of parts i have gathered for my swap are already bolted on the car...so now im off to order some parts to finish up the mounting/fuel system.. Then it will be time to drop that bad boy in!! I'll update again soon. Just for kicks this is how it sits now with all the front suspension work done, and frame/rear end bracing complete.
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04-29-2014, 04:28 PM
#50
I wonder how this thing will handle after all is said and done, the rx8 is a great track toy...now with some serious power with it dear god it could be amazing. I'm following this build closely can't wait to see the finished product.
04-30-2014, 04:32 PM
#51
Also on a side note, should have time to post more pics/update tonight.
04-30-2014, 10:27 PM
#52
Progress rolls on! Not to much of an update today, but I got the engine stands mocked up to see how everything will sit in the engine bay. Looks pretty good, seems like the motor will be centered up real nice with these mounts/stands.
Give you an idea of how the subframe is gonna be modified to allow stock c5 corvette mounts to work nicely.
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Close up on drivers side stand..fit looks good along the subframe, just need to get them tacked up and welded on..hopefully will be able to get it done by the weekend.
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shot of the passenger stand
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Here is a shot of the mock up with the c5 engine mounts/pedestals ill be using
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Just for the hell of it i mocked the c5 mounts up with the stock rubber mount to see if there was any real difference in height over the aftermarket ones in the pic above...difference was negligible.
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Also figured out what/how im gonna mount my radiator and fan shroud, tried to take pics, but it was too dark. Ill get better ones by the weekend and add them along with another update on progress hopefully!
Give you an idea of how the subframe is gonna be modified to allow stock c5 corvette mounts to work nicely.
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[/IMG]Close up on drivers side stand..fit looks good along the subframe, just need to get them tacked up and welded on..hopefully will be able to get it done by the weekend.
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[/IMG] shot of the passenger stand
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[/IMG]Here is a shot of the mock up with the c5 engine mounts/pedestals ill be using
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[/IMG]Just for the hell of it i mocked the c5 mounts up with the stock rubber mount to see if there was any real difference in height over the aftermarket ones in the pic above...difference was negligible.
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[/IMG] Also figured out what/how im gonna mount my radiator and fan shroud, tried to take pics, but it was too dark. Ill get better ones by the weekend and add them along with another update on progress hopefully!
05-01-2014, 11:48 AM
#55
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I would be interested in buying everything from your previous engine, if you still have it. I don't have the resources to build from a short block as I am a full time college student. I see you were in college not so long ago so I'm sure you understand.
I essentially need a complete engine. I saw you had the rotating assembly, 243 heads and all that. Let me know what you have.
Also, I am local. Could pick up with cash, if we could work a deal.
I essentially need a complete engine. I saw you had the rotating assembly, 243 heads and all that. Let me know what you have.
Also, I am local. Could pick up with cash, if we could work a deal.
05-01-2014, 01:12 PM
#56
I would be interested in buying everything from your previous engine, if you still have it. I don't have the resources to build from a short block as I am a full time college student. I see you were in college not so long ago so I'm sure you understand.
I essentially need a complete engine. I saw you had the rotating assembly, 243 heads and all that. Let me know what you have.
Also, I am local. Could pick up with cash, if we could work a deal.
I essentially need a complete engine. I saw you had the rotating assembly, 243 heads and all that. Let me know what you have.
Also, I am local. Could pick up with cash, if we could work a deal.
05-04-2014, 08:38 PM
#57
Radiator Setup progress Hey all, got my radiator and fan shroud all mocked up for the swap. Should have plenty of room for an interesting intake tube/filter routing.
Shot of it mocked up Mishimoto Radiator looks good. (Get an idea for wanted position).
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Clearance of the left and right side
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Shot of the Mishimoto aluminum fan shroud with twin 12'' slim fans.
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Shot of the notchs ill cut for finally rigid fitment.
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Mount setup to hold up the bottom of the rad (just clamped on for known to look at clearance)
Bottom of mount.
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Side profile of the mount.
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Looks good and sturdy..gonna be finishing up fabrication of the radiator mounts, and engine stands this week, hopefully have the motor/trans dropped in this weekend!! Update will follow. Speartech should be getting my PCM and harness for rework and tune any day now so everything is coming together nicely.
Shot of it mocked up Mishimoto Radiator looks good. (Get an idea for wanted position).
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[/IMG]Clearance of the left and right side
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[/IMG]Shot of the Mishimoto aluminum fan shroud with twin 12'' slim fans.
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[/IMG]Shot of the notchs ill cut for finally rigid fitment.
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[/IMG]Mount setup to hold up the bottom of the rad (just clamped on for known to look at clearance)
Bottom of mount.
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[/IMG]Side profile of the mount.
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[/IMG]Looks good and sturdy..gonna be finishing up fabrication of the radiator mounts, and engine stands this week, hopefully have the motor/trans dropped in this weekend!! Update will follow. Speartech should be getting my PCM and harness for rework and tune any day now so everything is coming together nicely.
06-01-2014, 09:39 PM
#60
Bit of an Update lol Hey guys, sorry i know it has been awhile since the last update, but i have just been busy....However, lets to cut to the chase. Had my engine stands, and transmission cross member plates welded up this weekend. They look fantastic imo. Also got the motor torn down, with the ls engine lift plate on, heads taped up.
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Some shots of the engine stands welded up (before a good clean to get the slag off)...great work by the welder. By the way if your in the dfw area, and a novice welder who isnt comfortable welding on your subframe i recommend Rosado Welding. Great guy,fast and reliable work, clean welds, can come to your house if the car doesn't move
. Awesome!!
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And the transmission cross member mounting plates i was reffering to eariler.
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Getting ready for the first test fit!!
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Fits like a glove...so happy to see the engine bay full once more.
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I was a little nervous to mock up my radiator mounts before the test fit, but I lucked out there is plenty of room for the front accessories, and the intake to be routed.
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Some pics of the mounts im using for the swap. Just a reminder im using the stock C5 Corvette engine pedestal....then the actual engine mount is the C5 corvette performance urethane mount.
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Man so glad on the fit, the engine stands that got welded on, are right on the money (I'm using back hole in the stand..because that lines up the shifter perfect in the car)... Also forgot to mention i cleaned up the welds with the wire wheel, then painted the engine stands, and tranny mount plates with some VHT Chassis/RollBar Paint..black of course..
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Remember if you are doing a rx8 swap as well to take note of which t56 you have, because i was honestly unaware of any real differences till i started doing research...so to help save someone the time hopefully here is an awesome reference pic i stumbled across somewhere on some forum.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Have a steering linkage extension/adapter coming which is perfect, because it lines right up and clears everything, just a couple inches off from the steering rack relocation.
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Some undercarriage shots of the tranny mount, and cross member all bolted up.
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Driveshaft comparison....stock rx8 on the right, custom driveshaft for the swap on the left.
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Up close shot of the spline custom shaft on top, stock rx8 on bottom.
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Got the stock rx8 wire harness, computer box, and fuse block back in...need to start on the wiring chapter of this beast lol.
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Now after the first test fit is done, i have some new things i need to purchase lol...like some block hugger headers, exhaust piping, a different oil pan (GTO pan does not even come close to clearing, sitting in there with it off at the moment)....most likely the stock camaro one below is what i will go with because it has the most clearance in the front.
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Next update should be soon (like by the weekend hopefully)...have alot of things to work on in the mean time..like the fuel system, clutch linkage, throttle linkage, and the list goes on.....luckily though most of the stuff i have already...Thank you UPS!!
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[/IMG]Some shots of the engine stands welded up (before a good clean to get the slag off)...great work by the welder. By the way if your in the dfw area, and a novice welder who isnt comfortable welding on your subframe i recommend Rosado Welding. Great guy,fast and reliable work, clean welds, can come to your house if the car doesn't move
. Awesome!![IMG]
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[/IMG]And the transmission cross member mounting plates i was reffering to eariler.
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[/IMG]Getting ready for the first test fit!!
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[/IMG]Fits like a glove...so happy to see the engine bay full once more.
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]I was a little nervous to mock up my radiator mounts before the test fit, but I lucked out there is plenty of room for the front accessories, and the intake to be routed.
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]Some pics of the mounts im using for the swap. Just a reminder im using the stock C5 Corvette engine pedestal....then the actual engine mount is the C5 corvette performance urethane mount.
[IMG]
[/IMG] [IMG]
[/IMG]Man so glad on the fit, the engine stands that got welded on, are right on the money (I'm using back hole in the stand..because that lines up the shifter perfect in the car)... Also forgot to mention i cleaned up the welds with the wire wheel, then painted the engine stands, and tranny mount plates with some VHT Chassis/RollBar Paint..black of course.
.[IMG]
[/IMG] Remember if you are doing a rx8 swap as well to take note of which t56 you have, because i was honestly unaware of any real differences till i started doing research...so to help save someone the time hopefully here is an awesome reference pic i stumbled across somewhere on some forum.
[IMG]
[/IMG]Have a steering linkage extension/adapter coming which is perfect, because it lines right up and clears everything, just a couple inches off from the steering rack relocation.
[IMG]
[/IMG]Some undercarriage shots of the tranny mount, and cross member all bolted up.
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[/IMG]Driveshaft comparison....stock rx8 on the right, custom driveshaft for the swap on the left.
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[/IMG]Up close shot of the spline custom shaft on top, stock rx8 on bottom.
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[/IMG]Got the stock rx8 wire harness, computer box, and fuse block back in...need to start on the wiring chapter of this beast lol.
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[/IMG]Now after the first test fit is done, i have some new things i need to purchase lol...like some block hugger headers, exhaust piping, a different oil pan (GTO pan does not even come close to clearing, sitting in there with it off at the moment)....most likely the stock camaro one below is what i will go with because it has the most clearance in the front.
[IMG]
[/IMG]Next update should be soon (like by the weekend hopefully)...have alot of things to work on in the mean time..like the fuel system, clutch linkage, throttle linkage, and the list goes on.....luckily though most of the stuff i have already...Thank you UPS!!
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[/IMG] Last edited by Jabjr26; 06-01-2014 at 09:53 PM.