89FormulaLS2

iTrader: (1)

Getting ready to start putting everything together, but I wanted to verify some facts and research on this VERY COOL forum first.

Honestly, this is my first sports car I've ever owned (yah, 34 is old for a new gearhead, I know - but I'm havin' fun!! ) I feel like I've learned a ton in the last 9 months that I've owned this car, but I know I've got a LOT left to learn, also.

Okay, this is what I've got:

ORIGINAL CAR
1989 Firebird Formula 350, stock TPI, 156000 miles
WS6 style hood & airbox from ramairhood.com (not installed yet)
Catco oem-replacement dual catalytic converters (new last summer)
Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust (new last summer)

MY GOALS
400 to 425+ RWHP
Under 12.5 seconds in the quarter
20+ miles/gallon on the highway
Reliable daily driver, occasional 1/4 mile street racing
EMISSION LEGAL even in CA!! (moving to Cali later this year!)
Have everything WORK

THE CONVERSION PARTS
LS1 engine from a 99 TransAm (81K miles)
LS6 Intake Manifold with coolant line upgrade (just ordered)
Stock LS1 Exhaust Manifolds
Ported & Semi-polished throttle body
Stock LS1 MAF
T56 6-speed Transmission from a 99 Camaro SS (27K miles)
GripForce LS1 Z06 Clutch Kit
TNA Motorsports Custom Short throw shifter
LS1 Motor Mounts and Transmission Crossmember Kit from 3rd Gen Resource (need to order)


MY QUESTIONS
1. Will the SpearTech harness allow EVERYTHING on my original dash/panel to work?
2. Will the PCM reach & fit where the original one was with a re-worked harness?
3. What are your thoughts on aftermarket tuners (Predator vs Hypertech, etc.)
4. If I get a tuner, will I/should I still have SpearTech reprogram the PCM?
5. The rear end is (as far as I know) completely stock. Should I change gears?
6. I've been told the car's rearend will handle roughly 500hp. Will this affect what gears I should use? Especially with the M6?
7. I'm considering the T.P.I.S. Z11 cam. How does the (seemingly popular) Comp Cam products compare?
8. I'm assuming I'll have to get an adjustable pressure regulator to get to 58 psi on the fuel?
9. Will I have to change/modigy anything else with my fuel lines?
10. Should I upgrade to an aluminum driveshaft with this setup?
11. Since VATS has to be disabled, what is a good but cost-effective security system to replace it with?
12. My front end & steering is very loose & sloppy. Anyone have any experience with the kits from www.p-s-t.com?
13. Are my goals realistic?
14. What else am I overlooking?
15. What is a REALISTIC timeframe for getting things running, once we start installing the engine & tranny?

Thanks for any help you can give me,
Adam LaClair

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

Great car, great engine, great parts list. I just finished swapping an '01 LS1 into my '82 Z28 and it's a blast to drive. Pics at:

http://www.warpten.com/carpics/ls1/

http://www.warpten.com/carpics/ls1_0214/

You have a consideration given you're moving to The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, in that the emission equipment requirements are pretty strict. Investigate the need to have the electrical AIR pump, tank-mounted evap purge, etc...things I didn't need to futz with and just used LS1-Edit to disable.

1.) Speartech doesn't do plug and play harnesses for every model year 3rd gen, he returns you a harness with the power and gauge leads brought out and labelled so you can plumb them to your chassis harness. I don't have AC, so I have room to mount the PCM under-hood...can't imagine how you'd do it with the big AC box.

2.) There was a discussion here recently about extending PCM harness...given the large number of wires, it's not cost-effective versus just buying an entire harness with the right PCM trunk length.

3.) LS1-Edit. Accept no substitute. The hand-held tuners won't let you dig into all the diagnostic codes and VATS you'll need to disable.

4.) If you buy LS1-Edit, you can reprogram your PCM yourself. For $125 Speartech can sell you a benchtop harness. I plumbed the necessary wires to an OBD-2 connector under my dash, in the factory ALDL hood location, so I can program just like a 4th gen car.

5.) Depends on what gears you currently have. The T56 gearing and LS1 power range usually favors 3.42 or 3.73 gears.

6.) You have been told incorrectly. It depends on your driving style, if you plan on doing 3000+ rpm clutch drops at the drag strip, you'll trash it.

7.) TPIS cams have a good reputation, I went with a Thunder Racing 224 cam but that's based on them being pretty much cook-book HP recipe.

8.) Your factory fuel pump won't live long making 58psi. I went with a Walbro 225 high-pressure pump from www.autoperformanceengineering.com and an external Aeromotive regulator.

9.) I used Earl's AN-06 adapters on my TPI chassis hard lines, no cutting required. The guy at lt1intake.com can fabricate you hoses with the right fittings on both ends so no adapters are needed...I didn't catch that in time.

10.) Your call. I run a Denny's Driveshaft 3.5" HD aluminum shaft.

11.) Glock 9mm, bullets only cost $0.35 each.

12.) I replaced my rag joint and reset the gearbox lash per the Helms procedure, steers like a slot car now.

13.) Aside from the California requirements, you're on a good path in my opinion.

14.) See previously-mentioned stuff...fuel pump, OBD-2 emission equipment, etc. If you want to plumb the LS1 harness into your car's chassis harness, you'll likely need a Helms manual for pinouts of the car's chassis harness. If you want to modify the LS1 harness yourself, you'll need a Helms manual for the LS1 donor car.

15.) That's a tough question to answer without knowing your exact mechanical ability. I started 1st week of December, turned the key 2nd week of Feb, working weekends and a few after-work evenings. I have air tools.

I bought a junkyard '99 chassis harness that had all the connectors to interface with the LS1 engine harness, plenty of re-useable Packard TXL wire, and the under-dash OBD-2 connector, for $40. Get familiar with the SEARCH button above, lots of good data posted in this forum that can help keep this project fun.

-Kevin

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

PS: you also may need an exhaust system, the factory cats and y-pipe wouldn't fit in my case. I trailered my car to Mufflex and had them fabricate mine.

Yellowhammer

Crainholio- congrats on your build. Have you taken it to a dyno yet? Have you run into any problems after the install?

I am doing the same conversion, but taking longer to collect parts.

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

The weather here in the Northeast hasn't been favorable for dyno runs yet, but I should have some data in March.

No issues thus far but it's only been out for short tours, no long-term running data yet. It's a real monster with the TR 224 cam, even compared to the 355 MiniRam engine I was running previously.

89FormulaLS2

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the feedback, Kevin.

Yes, I hear that the CA requirements are a bitch - but even Vermont has gotten a hell of a lot stiffer in the last couple years (sniffers, full OBD-II compliance required, etc.) I'm afraid with the EPA pressuring everyone, it's only a matter of time before emissions becomes a big issue in EVERY state. But my future lies in San Diego - so I'll do what I gotta do. I'll definitely check out those things you mentioned.

I've gotta give SpearTech a call and see what they can do for me. I know they've done the harness for at least one other car that passed CA emissions on the first shot, so I'll let them do the wiring rather than try to figure it out myself.

If I have SpearTech reprogam the PCM, will I actually need a tuner or LS1-Edit? I haven't decided yet what route to go there - I'm just trying to justify the expense - LS1-Edit isn't cheap!! Keep in mind this is going to be a daily driver street car 95% of the time, probably will never hit a real drag strip (road racing might be another story though - that interests me a bit).

I think I've got 3.23 gears right now. The 3.73 or the 4.11 sound pretty good for the gas mileage in 6th gear, though!

I've done some more research on the rear-end situation. Basically, my mechanic and TPIS both agree that as long as my "racing" is going to consist of 1/4 runs on the highway with street tires, my wheels will spin and prevent the rear from breaking. If I put it on the strip with slicks, that is another story.

Probably will go with the TPIS ZL-11 cam with a wider lobe separation (113 or 114) to keep the idle a bit smoother - they suggested that for CA, particularly.

FBodyMotorSports (Formerly 3rd Gen Resource) now has a complete fuel line kit for the LS1 to 3rd Gen conversion. Gonna check that out a bit more!

I'm going to see if I can get a used aluminum driveshaft inexpensively.

"Glock 9mm, bullets only cost $0.35 each." - Nice, man.

I've got to get an adaptor kit - my LS6 intake doesn't have the port for the EGR, which I've decided to keep on. I'll order the cam friday - shooting at putting the engine in the car before April, and starting it in early May.

Adam

jlanthie

Hey Adam,
I'm currently workin on and 3rd Gen LS1 project myself. I have the same problem with the LS6 intake manifold. Where have you seen the adapter kit? We were thinking about just going the 2001-2002 route by routing the EGR hose up to the intake air box and fabing a bung to connect it to.

You can see my LS1 project progress at: http://www.cardomain.com/id/jlanthie

-Jason

madbrace

I just finished the ls1 swap into my 85 Iroc not that long ago. I put in a comps cam 222/224 566/568 112 LSA no cats and no egr . every thing else is stock. I just got back from the track. I ran a 8.5 Its a 1/8 of a mile track. I was on 18" irocs and my stock tune I had my computer mail order programmed and was not very happy with the results. I recomend you go with a cam that is common on this site like a TR cam and just buy edit and have some one share their edit files with you, Also their is some good info on this site on how to tune with edit, so you cant go wrong with edit Also for your regulator you should checkout DYNATECH MOTOR SPORTS I got it for 120 with a gauge, fittings and a couple of feet of stainless steel line. . .

CamaroCain

iTrader: (1)

Just FYI, the hose going to the air box is the inlet hose for the AIR pump, they positioned it there to use filtered air for the pump. The EGR was done away with completely because of the 01-02 camshaft profile and overlap teh were able to scavenge exhaust gases back to the combustion chamber, thus not needing the EGR.

Clint

P.S. Nice Third gens everyone, I hope i can get my LS1 conversion on my third gen done one of these days....

Yellowhammer

Madbrace- does dynatech have a website??? I am needing a regulator myself.

89FormulaLS2

iTrader: (1)

Jason,

They have an adapter kit for the EGR onto LS6 intakes at this site I sread somewhere that a couple of people had used this, and said it was an easy install and looks very professional when done.

For anyone else looking to get an LS6 manifold upgrade and KEEPING the EGR, just get this:

Adam

89FormulaLS2

iTrader: (1)

Those are some sweet cars listed, folks!!

madbrace

I cant seem to find his link. But here goes his number 562 945-5300 Dynatech motorsports

jlanthie

Clint,
Thanks for the clarification!

Adam,
Ahh it looks like you just drill a hole in the LS6 intake in the same location as the stock EGR location and use some form of expoxy to fasten the adapter into it. Wish I saw that SLP LS6 intake before I purchased my LS6 from gmpartsdirect and spent countless hours prepping it and having it painted . Seems like a wee bit expensive at $149 for the adapter though. Oh well...what are ya going to do, I may just have to go that route.

Any one know what the chances are at smogging the 2000 LS1 transplant with out the EGR (in say the golden state )? Seems like it would be more of a failed visual inspection then it would be failed emissions. And only something they would catch at the referee station when getting the engine transplant approved rather then your every day 76 station .

Thanks,
Jason

Keith

I seem to recall 70LS1 on here having a little circuit board to send the 5 volt square wave signal to the PCM to disable VATS. He could unplug it and take it when he left the car at least thats what it looks like. I would PM him for details.

Can you carry the glock in CA? If not that would suck.

89FormulaLS2

iTrader: (1)

2002-4.8,

Thanks!!! I did a search and found the post you mentioned. I'd really like to keep the security feature of the VATS, so I'm gonna go with that circuit board!!

Jason, yeah I wish I'd seen the SLP intake before I got the LS6, too. Oh well........

Adam

Brads454

1. Will the SpearTech harness allow EVERYTHING on my original dash/panel to work?

Yes the only thing that doesn't work is my cigarette lighter.

2. Will the PCM reach & fit where the original one was with a re-worked harness?

Yes it will fit, may need to zip tie if you dont have another way to secure it, then cut a grate out of the lower dash grate so the OBD2 plug can drop down to scan codes later on.

3. What are your thoughts on aftermarket tuners (Predator vs Hypertech, etc.)

Get LS1 Edit or just have it tuned, there are lots of tuners in CA.

4. If I get a tuner, will I/should I still have SpearTech reprogram the PCM?

No shouldn't need re-programming to get the car going.

5. The rear end is (as far as I know) completely stock. Should I change gears?

If you've got a G92 then its a good ration. I've got a Currie Enterprise 9" w/ 3.55's and I want to order some 4.11's too.

7. I'm considering the T.P.I.S. Z11 cam. How does the (seemingly popular) Comp Cam products compare?

There is a tuner in CA that can grind you a cam for 398rwhp and pass smog, he's on here too I think (93Pony) Or for your HP needs just get Nitrous.

8. I'm assuming I'll have to get an adjustable pressure regulator to get to 58 psi on the fuel?

If you're gonna put the LS1 tank and stuff in then you dont need it. but you will have to cut approx 2inches off the filler neck to fit it in the body so it doesn't stick out the rear 1/4 panel.

9. Will I have to change/modigy anything else with my fuel lines?

Yes do this, take and cut an inch or two off the LS1 fuel line ends. Then cut the rubber line back off the nuts on the 3rd gen lines then weld them together and you can use the stock hoses.(that what I did)

10. Should I upgrade to an aluminum driveshaft with this setup?

LS1 Driveshaft will work, but may need to be shortened.

12. My front end & steering is very loose & sloppy. Anyone have any experience with the kits from www.p-s-t.com?

Re-built mine w/ Moog ball joints and energy poly-bushings new tie-rods, idler arm etc. Then a Baer track kit to stop this thing, it works great.

13. Are my goals realistic?

Yea I'd think so but you're gonna have to look more into CA smog stuff.

14. What else am I overlooking?

Brakes.

15. What is a REALISTIC timeframe for getting things running, once we start installing the engine & tranny?

If you have ALL the parts you can do it in less then 2 weeks. But if you to wait for this and that it may take 9 months like our car did.

Here are some pics of the swap should awnser most your questions.

Click this to see the car.

89FormulaLS2

iTrader: (1)

Cool. Thanks, Brad!

Kewl_Blades

iTrader: (5)

All driveshafts from 3rd and 4th gens are swap-able (interchangeable). No mods needed. But I would HIGHLY recommend that if you get a used one, have it balanced.

Brads454

Yea I know this and it's true in most cases. However since I'm running a 9" with the LS1/M6 I had to get mine shorted and balanced. In his question #5, I talked about possibly getting a new rear end and if he does that it may need to be cut.