1968 Firebird 400 - H/C LS1 swap
08-03-2012, 11:33 PM
#1
1968 Firebird 400 - H/C LS1 swap Hey Fellas,
Im starting to swap an LS1 into my 68 Firebird. The engine was originally built for my 01 WS6 T56. I pulled the motor to drop into a 98 Formula race car I was building but ive gotten used to the idea that I dont have time to build, own or race a racecar...so im pulling the motor and putting it into my other project which I recently found that the Pontiac 400 in it is not in the best of shape, not to mention all the trouble ive had trying to find a Pontiac clutch linkage setup...and no they are not the same as the Camaros.
Ive read up on all the stickys and they have all been very helpfull as have most build threads ive read. This site has helped me a ton building not only my WS6 and Formula but has a wealth of info on swaps as well ive learned.
Here are a few pics of the car and motor...just to note the Victor Jr and 4500 throttle body will be coming off and a FAST 92 combo will go on. This motor with a ported FAST 92 combo made 475 rwhp and 435 rwtq in my WS6 through a T56 and 9" with 4.10 gears and 315s.
Im getting things together for the swap and will be asking some questions, i really appreciate any help I can get along the way.
Current Plans:
Fuel System: Planning a Tanks Inc tank with an in tankpump setup, corvette style regulator, inline filter, plumbed into the stock fuel rail(for now, will upgreade when money allows for some asthetic upgrades), and the SVO30 injectors.
Motor mounts: Not sure at this point. I like the Swaptech ones sold on Nook and Tranny because they are adjustable and I can put the motor where I want it. Im also considering the kit Summit sells with the mounts, headers and oil pan if I can get some feedback from someone who has used it.
Steering: Ill need to upgrade as the car didnt have power steering from the factory, im not interested in installing a rack in front of the k member, I want to keep it in the back and clearence the oil pan to fit or get an aftermarket one. Will probably go with a quicker steering box though from a 3rd gen.
Exhaust: Looking at the Hooker headers, the motor mounts will have a big impact on which headers I go with. After the headers its pretty simple, I have a Summit 3" X pipe kit I was planning on using for the car anyway so I will put that to use. I also have some Summit race mufflers I was going to use but may upgrade to some Magnaflows. Whatever mufflers I go with the exhaust will dump before the axle...nice and simple.
Cooling: Im keeping it simple to start, I have a few 4th gen radiators and fan setups laying around so ill use them. Id like to go with an electric water pump but not sure if ill go that route or not. Eventually Id like an all aluminum dual pass to clean up the look.
Electrical/Gauges: I have some autometer Ultra-lite gauges I bought for my race car, ill try to put them to use and probably buy a couple more. As for the harness im going to save the money and do the work myself. I have alot of electrical knowhow specifically with harness repair. I just need to add in the fuses and run power and all.
Transmission: I have a fully built TH350 with a manual valve body. Im hoping I can sell it or trade it for an upgraded T56. The stalled auto would have been great for the track but on the street I need to row through the gears.
Im starting to swap an LS1 into my 68 Firebird. The engine was originally built for my 01 WS6 T56. I pulled the motor to drop into a 98 Formula race car I was building but ive gotten used to the idea that I dont have time to build, own or race a racecar...so im pulling the motor and putting it into my other project which I recently found that the Pontiac 400 in it is not in the best of shape, not to mention all the trouble ive had trying to find a Pontiac clutch linkage setup...and no they are not the same as the Camaros.
Ive read up on all the stickys and they have all been very helpfull as have most build threads ive read. This site has helped me a ton building not only my WS6 and Formula but has a wealth of info on swaps as well ive learned.
Here are a few pics of the car and motor...just to note the Victor Jr and 4500 throttle body will be coming off and a FAST 92 combo will go on. This motor with a ported FAST 92 combo made 475 rwhp and 435 rwtq in my WS6 through a T56 and 9" with 4.10 gears and 315s.
Im getting things together for the swap and will be asking some questions, i really appreciate any help I can get along the way.
Current Plans:
Fuel System: Planning a Tanks Inc tank with an in tankpump setup, corvette style regulator, inline filter, plumbed into the stock fuel rail(for now, will upgreade when money allows for some asthetic upgrades), and the SVO30 injectors.
Motor mounts: Not sure at this point. I like the Swaptech ones sold on Nook and Tranny because they are adjustable and I can put the motor where I want it. Im also considering the kit Summit sells with the mounts, headers and oil pan if I can get some feedback from someone who has used it.
Steering: Ill need to upgrade as the car didnt have power steering from the factory, im not interested in installing a rack in front of the k member, I want to keep it in the back and clearence the oil pan to fit or get an aftermarket one. Will probably go with a quicker steering box though from a 3rd gen.
Exhaust: Looking at the Hooker headers, the motor mounts will have a big impact on which headers I go with. After the headers its pretty simple, I have a Summit 3" X pipe kit I was planning on using for the car anyway so I will put that to use. I also have some Summit race mufflers I was going to use but may upgrade to some Magnaflows. Whatever mufflers I go with the exhaust will dump before the axle...nice and simple.
Cooling: Im keeping it simple to start, I have a few 4th gen radiators and fan setups laying around so ill use them. Id like to go with an electric water pump but not sure if ill go that route or not. Eventually Id like an all aluminum dual pass to clean up the look.
Electrical/Gauges: I have some autometer Ultra-lite gauges I bought for my race car, ill try to put them to use and probably buy a couple more. As for the harness im going to save the money and do the work myself. I have alot of electrical knowhow specifically with harness repair. I just need to add in the fuses and run power and all.
Transmission: I have a fully built TH350 with a manual valve body. Im hoping I can sell it or trade it for an upgraded T56. The stalled auto would have been great for the track but on the street I need to row through the gears.
Last edited by MrElectric03; 08-04-2012 at 12:10 AM.
08-06-2012, 11:55 PM
#4
Teching In
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Paso Robles, CA
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hooker headers are great quality but I had to put the motor back 1/2" past the stock position so the headers would clear the pitman arm. This required me to notch the frame to clear the alternator. Alternator is on bottom of drivers side. It is in a 69 Camaro. I did not use the Slip fit collector, I welded on 3 bolt collector flanges instead. Ceramic coating quality is just ok.
08-07-2012, 10:04 AM
#7
TECH Enthusiast
mounts: I used the brp mounts before there was a lot of info on them. I would probably look at dirty dingo mounts if I had to do it again. This requires you to notch the frame if you want to run the compressor in the stock location. Don't use the H3 pan my preference would be the holley pan. My priority was to use the factory accessories and not make hybrid. At the time there were few header manufacturers. I originally got a set of Stainless Works headers that did not fit at all and also had a defect in the flange that I only found after I pulled them off. I ended up with a set of Kooks TBSS headers which fit fine although they come out a little wide but I was able to use the factory linkage to keep the shift lock mechanism.
Rad: I had a radiator with a Lincoln Mark IV fan and it blew the fuses so I went to a factory 4th gen radiator and fan setup. They fit fine and are not to difficult to mount up.
Gauges: I have a full set of AM's and used the 4th gen wiring harness. The harness was modified to the gauges and works fine.
Rad: I had a radiator with a Lincoln Mark IV fan and it blew the fuses so I went to a factory 4th gen radiator and fan setup. They fit fine and are not to difficult to mount up.
Gauges: I have a full set of AM's and used the 4th gen wiring harness. The harness was modified to the gauges and works fine.
Trending Topics
08-07-2012, 08:07 PM
#9
mounts: I used the brp mounts before there was a lot of info on them. I would probably look at dirty dingo mounts if I had to do it again. This requires you to notch the frame if you want to run the compressor in the stock location. Don't use the H3 pan my preference would be the holley pan. My priority was to use the factory accessories and not make hybrid. At the time there were few header manufacturers. I originally got a set of Stainless Works headers that did not fit at all and also had a defect in the flange that I only found after I pulled them off. I ended up with a set of Kooks TBSS headers which fit fine although they come out a little wide but I was able to use the factory linkage to keep the shift lock mechanism.
Rad: I had a radiator with a Lincoln Mark IV fan and it blew the fuses so I went to a factory 4th gen radiator and fan setup. They fit fine and are not to difficult to mount up.
Gauges: I have a full set of AM's and used the 4th gen wiring harness. The harness was modified to the gauges and works fine.
Rad: I had a radiator with a Lincoln Mark IV fan and it blew the fuses so I went to a factory 4th gen radiator and fan setup. They fit fine and are not to difficult to mount up.
Gauges: I have a full set of AM's and used the 4th gen wiring harness. The harness was modified to the gauges and works fine.
Havent decided on headers yet either, ive used Hookers on plenty of cars and although they werent the greatest headers ever they were good for teh price.
I haev a couple 4th gen radiators and fan setups laying around so definately putting those to use and I like keeping the steering original and just upgrade the box to a third gen 2.5 lock to lock. I see no reason to go crazy with steering up front as long as im still running leaf springs out back.
08-09-2012, 03:41 AM
#10
Staging Lane
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bakersfield CA
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi there,
I read in hear that the Holley pan fits, well I just sent mine back (as far as I know they only have one). It bottoms out on the xmember before hitting the mounts using original pedestals. I talked with Holley and they are aware of the problem and I hear the pan is in re-design. The front of the pan has a depth of 2.4" and that's too much for your frame. I went with the AutoKraft pan. the depth on the front of it is 1.75". I cleared the Xmember with .5 space plenty enough for the poly mount travel. I'm in the middle of my 67 Firebird LS1/T56 conversion and hope I can call on you for answers and I may have a few for you. My two cents....
Andrew
I read in hear that the Holley pan fits, well I just sent mine back (as far as I know they only have one). It bottoms out on the xmember before hitting the mounts using original pedestals. I talked with Holley and they are aware of the problem and I hear the pan is in re-design. The front of the pan has a depth of 2.4" and that's too much for your frame. I went with the AutoKraft pan. the depth on the front of it is 1.75". I cleared the Xmember with .5 space plenty enough for the poly mount travel. I'm in the middle of my 67 Firebird LS1/T56 conversion and hope I can call on you for answers and I may have a few for you. My two cents....
Andrew
Last edited by andysfbird; 08-09-2012 at 03:48 AM.
08-09-2012, 08:16 AM
#11
Hi there,
I read in hear that the Holley pan fits, well I just sent mine back (as far as I know they only have one). It bottoms out on the xmember before hitting the mounts using original pedestals. I talked with Holley and they are aware of the problem and I hear the pan is in re-design. The front of the pan has a depth of 2.4" and that's too much for your frame. I went with the AutoKraft pan. the depth on the front of it is 1.75". I cleared the Xmember with .5 space plenty enough for the poly mount travel. I'm in the middle of my 67 Firebird LS1/T56 conversion and hope I can call on you for answers and I may have a few for you. My two cents....
Andrew
I read in hear that the Holley pan fits, well I just sent mine back (as far as I know they only have one). It bottoms out on the xmember before hitting the mounts using original pedestals. I talked with Holley and they are aware of the problem and I hear the pan is in re-design. The front of the pan has a depth of 2.4" and that's too much for your frame. I went with the AutoKraft pan. the depth on the front of it is 1.75". I cleared the Xmember with .5 space plenty enough for the poly mount travel. I'm in the middle of my 67 Firebird LS1/T56 conversion and hope I can call on you for answers and I may have a few for you. My two cents....
Andrew
12-10-2013, 10:19 PM
#13
Well over a year later and not much to update. I put the car on the back burner for a while and did some other things. I picked up a T56 in need of a rebuild last weekend. I'm going to build it myself with stage 2 parts so it will hold the power of my motor better. The T56 in my WS6 was starting to slip when I sold it.
I'm still deciding on parts for the swap. From the pics I've seen I'm pretty sure I'm going with DSE mounts and Dynatech headers. Not sure on the trans mount, I may see how the stock one lines up or build my own. As for the oil pan I've been leaning toward the Holley pan because it's a good amount cheaper than the mast Motorsports pan.
I've also decided that I'll be mini tubbing and adding a 4 link and 9" to the rear. I want it all done right and ready to drive once it's done. My motor with a T56 will snap that old 10 bolt like a twig.
I'm still deciding on parts for the swap. From the pics I've seen I'm pretty sure I'm going with DSE mounts and Dynatech headers. Not sure on the trans mount, I may see how the stock one lines up or build my own. As for the oil pan I've been leaning toward the Holley pan because it's a good amount cheaper than the mast Motorsports pan.
I've also decided that I'll be mini tubbing and adding a 4 link and 9" to the rear. I want it all done right and ready to drive once it's done. My motor with a T56 will snap that old 10 bolt like a twig.
07-27-2015, 07:58 PM
#14
Bringing this one back!
Yesterday I ordered a Fast 102 intake and NW throttle body and fast fuel rails. Also ordered the Hooker/Holley swap setup. The ground clearance with this kit is pretty amazing. I was planning on the dynatech headers and DSE mounts but after seeing the ground clearance I was sold. The Headers are 1 7/8" primaries with 3" collectors, the newer Holley pan which is made specifically for these cars, urethane motor and trans mounts and the Hooker trans crossmember.
Now I need to decide weather I'm going to attempt to rebuild my t56 myself or send it to tick to have them do it. It will be stage 2 with new bearings and upgrading to a steel 3-4 fork and viper 2nd gear which should be good to 600 rwtq.
Yesterday I ordered a Fast 102 intake and NW throttle body and fast fuel rails. Also ordered the Hooker/Holley swap setup. The ground clearance with this kit is pretty amazing. I was planning on the dynatech headers and DSE mounts but after seeing the ground clearance I was sold. The Headers are 1 7/8" primaries with 3" collectors, the newer Holley pan which is made specifically for these cars, urethane motor and trans mounts and the Hooker trans crossmember.
Now I need to decide weather I'm going to attempt to rebuild my t56 myself or send it to tick to have them do it. It will be stage 2 with new bearings and upgrading to a steel 3-4 fork and viper 2nd gear which should be good to 600 rwtq.
07-27-2015, 08:22 PM
#15
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 755
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3rd gen steering box has been great for me. I also just recently put in a 4th gen tilt steering column whichever a great addition too with a few minor modifications to the column.
07-27-2015, 09:47 PM
#17
The motor is a 347 with forged rods and Pistons, prc 5.3 stg 2.5 heads milled for 11.5:1 compression, cam is a 235/240 .610 lift on a 112+4 lsa. With a vengeance ported 92 combo, 1 7/8" headers through a single 4" exhaust, and a t56 and 9" with 4.10 gears it made 475 rwhp and 435 rwtq. I really miss the sound of this motor, I may shed a tear when I fire it up again.
07-28-2015, 09:22 PM
#19
Yea I was reading your sig, very similar. I built the motor to run a 200 hp wet shot of nitrous and the rings are gapped for it. As much as I don't want to tear the motor apart I'm considering putting new rings in it since I have no intention of running nitrous on this car.
08-12-2015, 10:01 PM
#20
Getting lots of parts in. Unfortunately I have a garage full of junk from my mother in laws house and can't really move around much less work a on the car.
So far have the following parts:
Hooker swap kit- 1 7/8 x 3" ceramic headers, poly mounts in new clamshells, trans mount, engine mount plates, Holley 102-2 oil pan.
C5 front brake kit with tall spindles, slotted/cross drilled rotors, red calipers- the c5 part is deceiving, they are just f body calipers but I'd grind the "corvette" off of the c5 ones anyway.
New FAST 102 intake and NW 102 throttle body with fast fuel rails- I had a vengeance ported 92 on my engine previously but sold it when I bought the Vic jr that I was planning on running in my race car.
IROC 2.5 turn L to L steering box
Once I measure for and decide on my axle width I'll have a Midwest Chassis 9" setup on the way.
Next purchases are going to be the small parts(rag joint, fittings, etc) to connect the steering box, clutch master cylinder mount bracket which I'll weld to the firewall, new brake booster and mc as my car had factory drums all around, and will be shipping my T56 out to Tick Performance to rebuilt to a stage 2 for me. Hopefully by the time it returns I'll have the chassis ready for the engine and trans to go in.
So far have the following parts:
Hooker swap kit- 1 7/8 x 3" ceramic headers, poly mounts in new clamshells, trans mount, engine mount plates, Holley 102-2 oil pan.
C5 front brake kit with tall spindles, slotted/cross drilled rotors, red calipers- the c5 part is deceiving, they are just f body calipers but I'd grind the "corvette" off of the c5 ones anyway.
New FAST 102 intake and NW 102 throttle body with fast fuel rails- I had a vengeance ported 92 on my engine previously but sold it when I bought the Vic jr that I was planning on running in my race car.
IROC 2.5 turn L to L steering box
Once I measure for and decide on my axle width I'll have a Midwest Chassis 9" setup on the way.
Next purchases are going to be the small parts(rag joint, fittings, etc) to connect the steering box, clutch master cylinder mount bracket which I'll weld to the firewall, new brake booster and mc as my car had factory drums all around, and will be shipping my T56 out to Tick Performance to rebuilt to a stage 2 for me. Hopefully by the time it returns I'll have the chassis ready for the engine and trans to go in.