Charcoal Canister ?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,670
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From: Concord, CA
Charcoal Canister ? I know this has been talked about before and there are threads or posts out there already.
But I would like to know if anything new has been found to use, something small and doesn't have to use the EVAP Purge Valve/Solenoid to work?
I'd like something small that I can put near the tank or on the frame out of the way and not in the Engine Bay. I can run a small vacuum line if required.
So. ..whats new !?
BC
But I would like to know if anything new has been found to use, something small and doesn't have to use the EVAP Purge Valve/Solenoid to work?
I'd like something small that I can put near the tank or on the frame out of the way and not in the Engine Bay. I can run a small vacuum line if required.
So. ..whats new !?
BC
Why not use the evap purge solenoid? F body mounts the canister on the fuel tank and uses the solenoid.
Problem without the solenoid is that the old carb systems vented the canister through PCV. Wont work well with FI since the PCV is MAF metered air. Metering PCV and evap through the MAF would add extra plumbing. I think the evap solenoid compensates for extra air by only opening during closed loop.
Problem without the solenoid is that the old carb systems vented the canister through PCV. Wont work well with FI since the PCV is MAF metered air. Metering PCV and evap through the MAF would add extra plumbing. I think the evap solenoid compensates for extra air by only opening during closed loop.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 6
From: Concord, CA
Gary, I already deleted the connector and wires out of the Harness. Main objective is to eliminate the flumes now.
IIRC, to correctly have the purge valve work via PCM correctly.. It would need Fuel level/pressure sensor (?)l ... I know some have said they are not needed but ? I am not sure myself, just didn't really reseach it out.
My 71 Nova and 71 Chevelle Cansister has three port on it. 1) Fuel Tank, 2) Carb which went to the ported vacuum on the carb, and 3) PCV which when to the PCV valve and Carb Bowl.
Guess I could try a few different things.. but if anyone has another solution or idea.. I am sure others would find it useful. But if there is some canister that just acted as a past-thru for flumes and use a vacuum source. .it might work.??
BC
IIRC, to correctly have the purge valve work via PCM correctly.. It would need Fuel level/pressure sensor (?)l ... I know some have said they are not needed but ? I am not sure myself, just didn't really reseach it out.
My 71 Nova and 71 Chevelle Cansister has three port on it. 1) Fuel Tank, 2) Carb which went to the ported vacuum on the carb, and 3) PCV which when to the PCV valve and Carb Bowl.
Guess I could try a few different things.. but if anyone has another solution or idea.. I am sure others would find it useful. But if there is some canister that just acted as a past-thru for flumes and use a vacuum source. .it might work.??
BC
My understanding is that the fuel tank pressure sensor is there simply for an evap leak code. The system is tested occasionally by closing the atmospheric air port solenoid to the canister and sends a code if a vacuum is not detected in the tank.
I suppose you could use a modern canister that has a designated port you could splice into the metered air PCV line.
I suppose you could use a modern canister that has a designated port you could splice into the metered air PCV line.
BC, I wondered the same thing and I found the guy from II Much Fabrication sells a small fabricated charcoal canister like you are talking about. It looks pretty cool but at $279 it blows my budget away for something so simple. Now if I was building full show or mostly show type car, $279 for the clean lines and simplicity of his design would be a different story... I would also mount it somewhere it would be seen (as his is designed to be) and not under the car near the axle where mine will live.
I did some research and saw a diagram of how they work, then I bought a charcoal canister from a salvage yard and disassembled it. They are pathetically simple and I'm going to make one using the parts in a smaller form that works in an area I have chosen.
I did some research and saw a diagram of how they work, then I bought a charcoal canister from a salvage yard and disassembled it. They are pathetically simple and I'm going to make one using the parts in a smaller form that works in an area I have chosen.
You could run it like the original by pulling metered air from in front of the throttle body and routing it through the canister back to manifold vacuum, but it's going to throw the a/f off a little.
I was originally going to try to use the purge valve along with the original charcoal cannister on my '71 C-10, but like you, I had already removed the wires for it. So what I ended up doing was just hooking the line from the tank to it and left the others open. I figured it would at least make a good vent for the tank. I park it in the garage some times and have absolutley no gas smell, and the truck runs fine and the tank doesn't build up pressure or vacuum, so it must be working good enough.
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Launching!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 277
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From: SC
I'm using a two port can out of an old Chrysler K car that was $10 on ebay. It's in the trunk with a line coming from the fuel filler neck into it and another going back out through the trunk pan with one of those little paper fuel filters on the end to act as an air filter. I can stick my nose up to it and not smell gas.
Also google "motorcycle charcoal canister" as there are lot that use them and they're smaller and cheaper. I was worried about getting mine high enough that it wouldn't get fuel sloshed up the line where pressure could push it to the can so under the car was out.
Also google "motorcycle charcoal canister" as there are lot that use them and they're smaller and cheaper. I was worried about getting mine high enough that it wouldn't get fuel sloshed up the line where pressure could push it to the can so under the car was out.
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Verdad Gallardo I'm doing something similar. I vented the tank to the vapor seperator/condensation tank in my 72 Olds. I just vented that through a gas filter. No odor problems.
I'm using a two port can out of an old Chrysler K car that was $10 on ebay. It's in the trunk with a line coming from the fuel filler neck into it and another going back out through the trunk pan with one of those little paper fuel filters on the end to act as an air filter. I can stick my nose up to it and not smell gas.
Also google "motorcycle charcoal canister" as there are lot that use them and they're smaller and cheaper. I was worried about getting mine high enough that it wouldn't get fuel sloshed up the line where pressure could push it to the can so under the car was out.
Also google "motorcycle charcoal canister" as there are lot that use them and they're smaller and cheaper. I was worried about getting mine high enough that it wouldn't get fuel sloshed up the line where pressure could push it to the can so under the car was out.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 6
From: Concord, CA
Thanks for the Input on this old subject.. I will keep plugging away to find something, I'll let you know if I find anything good.
I will for now just hook up the Stock Nova Canister with just the fuel tank and a Vacuum like I have on my Chevelle.. (using the HVAP port).
I was loooking at my son HD Sporter Canister. It is small but I need to figure out if it would work. Might have to looking into other MC ones and hit the JY to see if I can find any other two port ones like SSeller is using.
BC
I will for now just hook up the Stock Nova Canister with just the fuel tank and a Vacuum like I have on my Chevelle.. (using the HVAP port).
I was loooking at my son HD Sporter Canister. It is small but I need to figure out if it would work. Might have to looking into other MC ones and hit the JY to see if I can find any other two port ones like SSeller is using.
BC
It doesn't need to be mounted higher than the tank . All you have to do is run the line going to it higher than the tank, like a foot or two if you can. You could loop it up the metal panel between the trunk and back seat in some 3/8 steel line and then go to the cannister. You'll never push it hard enough to get the fuel to go through it that way.
I have been thinking about making my own recently to try and get rid of my original MCSS unit. Currently the vent line is just hooked up to the "tank" port of the canister and the rest left open. I don't get a gas smell and have no problem filling my tank.
Anyway, to make one all you need is a container, hose and activated carbon (charcoal) from the aquarium section of a pet store. All you need to do is make sure the way the "from tank" and "to atmosphere" hoses are plumbed forces the vapors past the charcoal before they can escape out the "atmosphere" port.
The container is the most important and difficult piece of the puzzle obviously lol.
Anyway, to make one all you need is a container, hose and activated carbon (charcoal) from the aquarium section of a pet store. All you need to do is make sure the way the "from tank" and "to atmosphere" hoses are plumbed forces the vapors past the charcoal before they can escape out the "atmosphere" port.
The container is the most important and difficult piece of the puzzle obviously lol.
It's not exactly what you are looking for, but it is better than just a hose. It goes on the end of the C/K truck vent solenoids. I've taken one apart due to mud being in there (you should have seen the rest of the vehicle!) and it's is really just a piece of foam inside. On the factory vent valves it has the nylon hose, but the service replacements you put rubber hose with clamps. I have a couple at work that I'll be messing with but I don't know if you will find anything budget friendly that will be pretty small too
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 6
From: Concord, CA
I am thinking of hitting the JY and look for some import two port Canister and use the line from the tank for the inlet and run the outlet to the CAI Filter or tubing. If it is a three port (Vacuum), I will connect it to the old HVAP port on the intake.
I have researched on other thread, forum and web searched. Some early 80's Ford had some small units that might work as well as the Imported ones from the 80's also. Well have to see what I find....
What do you guys think ?
BC
I have researched on other thread, forum and web searched. Some early 80's Ford had some small units that might work as well as the Imported ones from the 80's also. Well have to see what I find....
What do you guys think ?
BC
IMHO anything connected to the intake directly will result in a vacuum leak, unmetered air. Not sure how serious it will be but one function of the ecu is to only open the evap valve when in closed loop so the O2 sensors can compensate. And keep in mind even the PCV is metered air on these motors.
Just plumb it to your pre-MAF intake tube.
Just plumb it to your pre-MAF intake tube.
