It was around 100 in various places on the way down. It was 98 and raining when we got here.
So much for that dry heat!

 

Sean is a busy guy. So I'll answer what I know.
His tank is steel, modified with a sump and return. The return is below the fuel level.
The pumps filters etc are quite aways above the tank level.

He is using rails and regulator from a 98 corvette. It is a return setup. But after some research, it isn't supposed to be connected to intake vacuum. It won't work as boost referenced.

Ron

 

Perhaps that the pumps are pulling vs. pushing is an issue, too, given the height difference.
Can they be spaced down a bit easily? Given they are on an AL mounting plate, suspect this might be straightforward.

Sounds like the regulator might be an issue and that you are on top of that.

Doug

 

Getting a little tired of this thing sitting in the middle of my shop not running or driving...... and having to walk around it all the time.

Looking at fuel systems and what I should do and I am confused to say the least.

I might be able to come up with something to get the pumps at the level of the tank but that still leaves me with a less than ideal sump/return line setup.

My question is looking at the Aeromotive Phanton pumps that I can just drill a hole in the top of the existing tank and hook up the lines to my existing lines will this support the kind of power I am hoping to make? I dont really want to do this again for a third time.

Or should I rebuild with what I have and try to see if it will work?

I think that if I put the pumps at the level of the sump and install a fuel pressure regulator before the stock rails I should be able to make this work at least in my head. However I am no fuel system genius especially for this much power.

Looking for some insight here before I order up another $1,000 in pump and hoses.

Thanks in advance,

Sean

 

\
Areomotive phantom pump is rated to 550 horsepower

 

Their website says 700 hp EFI turbo?

Sean

 

I used this in-tank pump and boost reference FPR (return style) on my 6.2L/TVS1900/SD80 injectors (+600RWHP). I have a 10 AN feed that "Y"s off to two 8 AN lines that go to the front of my fuel rails. and then I have the back of the rails connedted to the FPR, with an 8 AN return to the tank.

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-pa...pump-assembly/

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-pa...***-regulator/

And plumbed it like this (fig 1-2):

http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/...0109-0revG.pdf

This setup is supposed to be good for 1200 HP FI. I purchased this tank setup from Boyds welding with the pump already installed:

http://www.fueltankparts.com/67-72-e...-bed-fill.html

 

PM sent.

 

any updates here or new plans?

 

Thanks for the pointers and offer Rod. I will reach out to you when the time comes for sure.

Just that I am more frustrated than ever. I feel like I am going to have to go back to square one on this fuel system even though I have seen several other folks make this kind of power with the stock rails.

It is getting more complicated than I really want it to be at this point with a new tank, new pump, baffles in the tank to work with the pump, all new lines, new rails, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a bunch of new fittings.

I was sincerely thinking about trying to relocate the 044's until a buddy pointed out that I really have no way to modulate the second pump with a pwm operation out of the gm ecu and I am not too sure where to go with it from here.

Actually went out and looked under it this evening found a few more cracks in the seam sealer.....

I actually think that for the first time ever I am just kind of losing interest in cars?

I hope not as this thing really needs to get finished and up and running.

Ill let it sit for a little longer and see if my motivation comes back or someone clues me in on how to make what i have work better.

Sorry for the lame update.

Sean

 

I think you could just lower your pumps as much as practical. I don't have my pump at sump level, and it works fine. Although I don't try and run the tank dry.

New rails, return reg and a return line won't cost an arm and a leg and the return setup is easier on the pumps.

A Hobbs switch set at the boost level of your choice can turn on the second pump.

Surprised you haven't asked this in the FI section.....,

 

I agree. You should be able to get the holley fuel rails and the boost referenced FPR for less than $300. I would just avoid running the tank below a 1/4.

EDIT:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-534-209
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13101/overview/

 

Mallory 4305M $115
Holley 534-210 $205 (same rails as above but comes with lots of fittings and hose)
Walbro F90000267 450lph e85 compatible pump under $200
Russel liquid filled fuel pressure gauge $40
Good fuel filter $100
Factory resized LS3 injectors by injector connection to 80lbs $250

I used all 3/8 or 6an fuel hose and had no problem with 600whp, and I have room for more. The pump is capable of at least 800hp on gasoline and the outlet is 3/8. It doesn't have to cost a fortune for your goals.

 

Hey Sean don't feel down man hang in there. I have my truck all taken apart installing the complete wiring harness. I had fuel issues aswell I used a fuel tank from a 1993 f150 with a walburo in tank fuel pump. And you can use your railes just buy a good regulator with boost reference

 

Dont let it get you down. Tackle the problem. Youve come this far.

 

Alright, enough is enough this thing needs to do burnouts.

Holley 534-210 is a good solution to the fuel rail situation. Ill get these coming thanks for the find futureuser.

I dropped the pumps down about 6" from where they were last night just temporarily and they were much much happier there so I think my plan is to just relocate the two 044 pumps and get them closer to the tank and lower in the chassis.

Now a couple questions for Ron.

Do you want a boost reference adjustable fuel pressure regulator to tune around?

Are you comfortable with having the second pump turn on with a hobbs switch and tuning around that?

I do not have the check valves on the ends of the pumps for a couple reasons but running just one pump seems to give me 58 lbs at the injectors with no issue on the setup I have now, should be no problem the other way either.

Sean

 

I'm happy you are pushing forward with your project . Make sure you put your fuel filters after your pumps if you are going to relocate them and use the same ones. Those inline pumps have enough trouble sucking and having a filter before the pumps will make it even worst. I am going to try and contact Matt from sloppy mechanics he throws together some awesome stuff I will ask him to hopefully we can get him to input some knowlage on your questions.

 

I don't know much about these FI high horsepower applications; why are stock style aftermarket (high flow) in-tank pumps not well suited for these applications? Seems like the placement of the external pumps tends to be an issue, as well as their ability to draw fuel from the tank.

Just trying to get educated.

Tipsy

 

With a new FPR, we can tune with both pumps on.
I don't know anything about those pumps. Are they happy with 58 psi base pressure?

I have only tuned with boost referenced. It works well.

 

Friggin awesome!! Thanks Ron, I think we will be back in some tuning business in just a couple of weeks I am just hoping that we have decent enough weather to get some tuning time in.

Here is the info on the pump that I dug up from the interweb.

Bosch 0 580 254 044 Inline Fuel Pump
Bosch 044 fuel pumps mount inline (out side of your gas tank), most commonly rear center under your car or truck. Each Bosch 044 inline fuel pump provides 300LPH of flow and operate at 72.5 PSI. Bosch 0-580-254-044 fuel pumps are comparable to the Walbro 255LPH high pressure inline fuel pumps which can both support vehicles for up to 600-700 horse power. Can be used in sequence with an intank Walbro or Bosch 040 fuel pump.

Bosch 044 Fuel Pump Specs:
Bosch Part Number: 0580254044
Minimum Current: 12 Volts
Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)
Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)
Fuel Pump Location: In-Line
High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)
Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)

Fuel Pump Connections:
Inlet: M18 x 1.5
Outlet: M12 x 1.5
Electrical: Positive M6 / Negative M5

I think with the right fuel pressure regulator on the return line we will be able to run at 58 lbs just fine adding a 1:1 psi per lb of boost.

Thanks for the input fellas and a little bit of motivation keeping me on my toes.

Sean