1967 Cougar build (over 500 pictures and videos)
07-07-2015, 12:21 PM
#561
TECH Resident
A true renaissance man!
You left out the critical part about the kind of beer you paired
!!!
Will you hook up your overflow tank? I noticed the overflow port on the radiator was still open. It annoyed the heck out of me to have coolant burping out and marking my territory.
You left out the critical part about the kind of beer you paired
!!!Will you hook up your overflow tank? I noticed the overflow port on the radiator was still open. It annoyed the heck out of me to have coolant burping out and marking my territory.
07-07-2015, 06:47 PM
#562
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
A true renaissance man!
You left out the critical part about the kind of beer you paired !!!
Will you hook up your overflow tank? I noticed the overflow port on the radiator was still open. It annoyed the heck out of me to have coolant burping out and marking my territory.
You left out the critical part about the kind of beer you paired
!!!Will you hook up your overflow tank? I noticed the overflow port on the radiator was still open. It annoyed the heck out of me to have coolant burping out and marking my territory.
I am definitely going to install an overflow tank. The coolant system level is pretty stable so there is no more burping and it's 100% water for now.
Andrew
07-07-2015, 07:47 PM
#563
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
So for those that have been following closely, you know that I am running those ridiculous 1" wheel spacers in order for the wheels to clear the calipers. The brakes that I have use a very shallow rotor which is pretty common on modern cars. The caliper overhangs the wheel mounting surface by about an inch, and combined with a wheel that has very little caliper clearance and you see the problem.
Here is the backside of the wheel:
You can see that is is basically flat on the backside (maybe .4" of space) and to make it worse there is a cast lip on the outer ring.
The wheel spacers are increasing the scrub radius which is making the steering overly stiff and worse, it is making the steering jittery on the highway. When giving even slight steering input the steerings starts to fight and causes the steering wheel to oscillate quickly. Not very confidence inspiring.
I've had a theoretical solution to eliminating the spacer in my back pocket, but I wanted to see if the spacer causes issues. Obviously it does, so it was time to see if I could make it work in practice.
Here are the dimensions for the V6 Mustang rotor:
The solution was to find a similar rotor but with a taller height. This would move the caliper inward and give more clearance for the wheel. I looked through various applications on RockAuto and finally found a readily available rotor that would work. It's for a 1999 Ford Ranger 4x4, here are the dimensions:
The Ranger rotor has the same bolt pattern and hub register, is a little smaller in diameter and a little thinner, but it is also much taller! Doing some calculations I figured that I would need to offset the caliper bracket by about .8" to assure that the rotor rides in the center of the Mustang caliper abutment.
So I took my brakes apart and did some mocking up. I used machined shaft collars for spacers and using two of them game me exactly the length that I needed.
I was assured by a brake expert that I trust very much (Tobin at Kore3.com) that this would not cause any issues. They make several kits that have more offset than this so this will work!
I had to turn down the O.D. of my hub a little for the rotor to fit over it and also had to grind a small casting ridge on the backside of the rotor, but it fits perfectly.
Now the wheel mounting surface is actually further out than the caliper.
In the above picture you can see little white marks at the upper outer edge of the caliper. The stupid lip on the wheel still touches there, but it's very minor. I will either grind the caliper a little in those two spots or run a 1/8" spacer, which is totally OK to do. I even found some hub centric 5mm spacers that should do the trick!
Andrew
Here is the backside of the wheel:
You can see that is is basically flat on the backside (maybe .4" of space) and to make it worse there is a cast lip on the outer ring.
The wheel spacers are increasing the scrub radius which is making the steering overly stiff and worse, it is making the steering jittery on the highway. When giving even slight steering input the steerings starts to fight and causes the steering wheel to oscillate quickly. Not very confidence inspiring.
I've had a theoretical solution to eliminating the spacer in my back pocket, but I wanted to see if the spacer causes issues. Obviously it does, so it was time to see if I could make it work in practice.
Here are the dimensions for the V6 Mustang rotor:
The solution was to find a similar rotor but with a taller height. This would move the caliper inward and give more clearance for the wheel. I looked through various applications on RockAuto and finally found a readily available rotor that would work. It's for a 1999 Ford Ranger 4x4, here are the dimensions:
The Ranger rotor has the same bolt pattern and hub register, is a little smaller in diameter and a little thinner, but it is also much taller! Doing some calculations I figured that I would need to offset the caliper bracket by about .8" to assure that the rotor rides in the center of the Mustang caliper abutment.
So I took my brakes apart and did some mocking up. I used machined shaft collars for spacers and using two of them game me exactly the length that I needed.
I was assured by a brake expert that I trust very much (Tobin at Kore3.com) that this would not cause any issues. They make several kits that have more offset than this so this will work!
I had to turn down the O.D. of my hub a little for the rotor to fit over it and also had to grind a small casting ridge on the backside of the rotor, but it fits perfectly.
Now the wheel mounting surface is actually further out than the caliper.
In the above picture you can see little white marks at the upper outer edge of the caliper. The stupid lip on the wheel still touches there, but it's very minor. I will either grind the caliper a little in those two spots or run a 1/8" spacer, which is totally OK to do. I even found some hub centric 5mm spacers that should do the trick!
Andrew
07-07-2015, 08:31 PM
#564
Looks like all is not lost! I was expecting you to completely change up the calipers to make it fit. Looking forward to seeing if your scrub radius theory was correct.
Oh yeah, and the car looks bitchin on the road! Where are the smoky burnouts?
Oh yeah, and the car looks bitchin on the road! Where are the smoky burnouts?
07-07-2015, 08:56 PM
#565
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
I am hoping to make it to the drag strip on Friday, so would have some good video then...
Andrew
07-07-2015, 11:11 PM
#567
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Andrew
07-09-2015, 10:36 PM
#568
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
The new brakes are on and it has made a huge difference. Getting rid of that 1" spacer has really changed the way the car drivers. The steering effort is greatly reduced and when the car is being steered gone is the feeling that the steering is fighting me. On the highway there is still a tiny bit of jitteriness, but nothing like it was before. I think the balancing beads are working as they are supposed to. After talking to the company they said I might need another ounce of beads in the tires. I am willing to give it a shot even though I can get the wheels and tires balanced conventionally now. Since the beads are there, I see no downside to trying more weight.
I took the car for a drive yesterday and with the radio off I started hearing a very loud noise from the front suspension. It was like a poly bushing squick but lower pitched. The only place the front suspension has poly bushings is at the lower coil over T-bar mount, and I greased the heck out of it when I installed it, so I was sure it wasn't that. When I got home I could lean on the suspension and reproduce the noise in the first inch of suspension travel. I could even feel it resonating through the shock towers when I placed my hand on them.
Long story short, here is another reason not to trust shops with any work. I did everything myself on the car with the exception of the exhaust and alignment. The same shop did both jobs. The TCP upper control arms use rod ends at the crossbar that mounts to the frame. There is an adjustable turn buckle there for alignment purposes. When the alignment was done the owner of the shop proclaimed how he tightened the jam nuts for the turnbuckles. Well....not so much...
The rod ends have a male stud with right hand threads (convention). The male ends threads into the female end of the turnbuckle (coupler). Then the coupler had a male end that has left hand threads that thread into the control arms. The couple can be turned to lengthen or shorten each leg of the upper control arm to achieve the desired alignment. The right hand and left hand threads at either end make it so it can be adjusted easier. There are jam nuts both at the rod end and at the coupler to keep the assembly stable after the adjustments are made. The rod end jam nut is supposed to be tightened against the coupler, while the left handed jam nut is supposed to be tightened against the control arm. This is where the shop failed. He tightened both the jam nuts against the coupler which left the portion of the coupler that threads into the control arm loose. This was the cause of my noise. I was able to put a wrench on the coupler and reproduce the noise:
With the jam nut not fully tight, the threaded position of the coupler was making that sound!
Once I tightened the snot out of that jam nut, the noise was gone.
Tomorrow I am heading to the drag strip for the first time, so I have to install my coolant overflow tank and my line lock. I got a new Hurst t-handle for the shifter with a built in button. Should be fun!
Wish me luck...14s here I come!!!
Andrew
I took the car for a drive yesterday and with the radio off I started hearing a very loud noise from the front suspension. It was like a poly bushing squick but lower pitched. The only place the front suspension has poly bushings is at the lower coil over T-bar mount, and I greased the heck out of it when I installed it, so I was sure it wasn't that. When I got home I could lean on the suspension and reproduce the noise in the first inch of suspension travel. I could even feel it resonating through the shock towers when I placed my hand on them.
Long story short, here is another reason not to trust shops with any work. I did everything myself on the car with the exception of the exhaust and alignment. The same shop did both jobs. The TCP upper control arms use rod ends at the crossbar that mounts to the frame. There is an adjustable turn buckle there for alignment purposes. When the alignment was done the owner of the shop proclaimed how he tightened the jam nuts for the turnbuckles. Well....not so much...
The rod ends have a male stud with right hand threads (convention). The male ends threads into the female end of the turnbuckle (coupler). Then the coupler had a male end that has left hand threads that thread into the control arms. The couple can be turned to lengthen or shorten each leg of the upper control arm to achieve the desired alignment. The right hand and left hand threads at either end make it so it can be adjusted easier. There are jam nuts both at the rod end and at the coupler to keep the assembly stable after the adjustments are made. The rod end jam nut is supposed to be tightened against the coupler, while the left handed jam nut is supposed to be tightened against the control arm. This is where the shop failed. He tightened both the jam nuts against the coupler which left the portion of the coupler that threads into the control arm loose. This was the cause of my noise. I was able to put a wrench on the coupler and reproduce the noise:
With the jam nut not fully tight, the threaded position of the coupler was making that sound!
Once I tightened the snot out of that jam nut, the noise was gone.
Tomorrow I am heading to the drag strip for the first time, so I have to install my coolant overflow tank and my line lock. I got a new Hurst t-handle for the shifter with a built in button. Should be fun!
Wish me luck...14s here I come!!!
Andrew
07-10-2015, 12:48 PM
#569
TECH Resident
One thought, adding positive caster might take away a bit more of you "jitteriness" going down the highway.
It adds to the on-center feel. It does increase steering effort a bit, but also instill confidence.
You didn't post your alignment settings.
I have a mercedes with power steering, but OEM is + 13 to 14 degrees positive caster. Old 60s cars some times have negative to get that light steering effect. Crazy the difference.
My early 911 (1971) without power steering called for something like +5 to 7.
Forgive me if you know all of this.
It adds to the on-center feel. It does increase steering effort a bit, but also instill confidence.
You didn't post your alignment settings.
I have a mercedes with power steering, but OEM is + 13 to 14 degrees positive caster. Old 60s cars some times have negative to get that light steering effect. Crazy the difference.
My early 911 (1971) without power steering called for something like +5 to 7.
Forgive me if you know all of this.
07-10-2015, 08:08 PM
#570
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
One thought, adding positive caster might take away a bit more of you "jitteriness" going down the highway.
It adds to the on-center feel. It does increase steering effort a bit, but also instill confidence.
You didn't post your alignment settings.
I have a mercedes with power steering, but OEM is + 13 to 14 degrees positive caster. Old 60s cars some times have negative to get that light steering effect. Crazy the difference.
My early 911 (1971) without power steering called for something like +5 to 7.
Forgive me if you know all of this.
It adds to the on-center feel. It does increase steering effort a bit, but also instill confidence.
You didn't post your alignment settings.
I have a mercedes with power steering, but OEM is + 13 to 14 degrees positive caster. Old 60s cars some times have negative to get that light steering effect. Crazy the difference.
My early 911 (1971) without power steering called for something like +5 to 7.
Forgive me if you know all of this.
The short of it is that I n red to do some **** and then get it back to the alignment shop and then they can dial in more caster. I was shooting for 5-6 degrees.
Andrew
07-11-2015, 11:34 AM
#574
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
So here are some more details as promised.
When I got to the track, all I did was change the shock settings and got right into the staging lanes. The burnout on the first pass was a little pathetic because I didn't get the line lock installed (I think my solenoid is fubarred...)...Launched at about 3500RPM, it spun the tires pretty good, I needed map quest to find the gears....blah..blah...blah...more excuses...blah..blah...
1.9 60 foot
13.44@99mph
For the second pass, lowered tire pressure to 20 psi, adjusted shocks a little, did a better burnout, had minor drama in the staging lanes (horn button popped off during burnout...LOL), launched the car at the same RPM, dead hooked and bogged....shifts were much better...
2.0 60 foot
13.31@104mph
Once I figure out what the car likes for launch it's a high 12 second ride all day long.
Obligatory video (the green Mustang had a Boss intake and other mods and was running 13 ohs @110...)
Andrew
When I got to the track, all I did was change the shock settings and got right into the staging lanes. The burnout on the first pass was a little pathetic because I didn't get the line lock installed (I think my solenoid is fubarred...)...Launched at about 3500RPM, it spun the tires pretty good, I needed map quest to find the gears....blah..blah...blah...more excuses...blah..blah...
1.9 60 foot
13.44@99mph
For the second pass, lowered tire pressure to 20 psi, adjusted shocks a little, did a better burnout, had minor drama in the staging lanes (horn button popped off during burnout...LOL), launched the car at the same RPM, dead hooked and bogged....shifts were much better...
2.0 60 foot
13.31@104mph
Once I figure out what the car likes for launch it's a high 12 second ride all day long.
Obligatory video (the green Mustang had a Boss intake and other mods and was running 13 ohs @110...)
Andrew
07-12-2015, 06:01 AM
#575
So here are some more details as promised.
When I got to the track, all I did was change the shock settings and got right into the staging lanes. The burnout on the first pass was a little pathetic because I didn't get the line lock installed (I think my solenoid is fubarred...)...Launched at about 3500RPM, it spun the tires pretty good, I needed map quest to find the gears....blah..blah...blah...more excuses...blah..blah...
1.9 60 foot
13.44@99mph
For the second pass, lowered tire pressure to 20 psi, adjusted shocks a little, did a better burnout, had minor drama in the staging lanes (horn button popped off during burnout...LOL), launched the car at the same RPM, dead hooked and bogged....shifts were much better...
2.0 60 foot
13.31@104mph
Once I figure out what the car likes for launch it's a high 12 second ride all day long.
Obligatory video (the green Mustang had a Boss intake and other mods and was running 13 ohs @110...)
Andrew
When I got to the track, all I did was change the shock settings and got right into the staging lanes. The burnout on the first pass was a little pathetic because I didn't get the line lock installed (I think my solenoid is fubarred...)...Launched at about 3500RPM, it spun the tires pretty good, I needed map quest to find the gears....blah..blah...blah...more excuses...blah..blah...
1.9 60 foot
13.44@99mph
For the second pass, lowered tire pressure to 20 psi, adjusted shocks a little, did a better burnout, had minor drama in the staging lanes (horn button popped off during burnout...LOL), launched the car at the same RPM, dead hooked and bogged....shifts were much better...
2.0 60 foot
13.31@104mph
Once I figure out what the car likes for launch it's a high 12 second ride all day long.
Obligatory video (the green Mustang had a Boss intake and other mods and was running 13 ohs @110...)
Andrew
Some day I will get to the track for some fun with mine.....
07-13-2015, 10:15 AM
#580
Andrew,
Your car looked really fast going down the track. It appears to me he chased you down. How good does the Cougar pull?
Thanks for sharing,
Jim
Your car looked really fast going down the track. It appears to me he chased you down. How good does the Cougar pull?
Thanks for sharing,
Jim