Z32 300zx vs 240sx (S14) for LSx Swap
08-24-2014, 11:09 AM
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Z32 300zx vs 240sx (S14) for LSx Swap Need some educated advice and opinions on pros and cons of each vehicle for swap purposes. I love the look of both cars and the weight of the 240sx but I just want to get a few opinions b4 I purchase one of the 2. I plan to either swap in a LS1 or do a budget L33 build. I'm still a bit need to this and just need a little help. How are the engine bays of the two cars and which would be a easier swap?
Last edited by Umbra; 08-24-2014 at 11:11 AM. Reason: grammar
08-24-2014, 12:24 PM
#2
Never did a Z32 swap but my S14 LM7 swap has been a breeze. Z32 will weigh more and the wheel base on the S14 240sx is wider then the NA but shorter than the TT. If I would had access to an Aluminum 5.3 I would have chosen that option.
FYI you can also swap out diffs hubs and axles for added 240sx reinforcement.
FYI you can also swap out diffs hubs and axles for added 240sx reinforcement.
08-24-2014, 01:08 PM
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Need some educated advice and opinions on pros and cons of each vehicle for swap purposes. I love the look of both cars and the weight of the 240sx but I just want to get a few opinions b4 I purchase one of the 2. I plan to either swap in a LS1 or do a budget L33 build. I'm still a bit need to this and just need a little help. How are the engine bays of the two cars and which would be a easier swap?
For a track car, whether drag/autox/drift... I'd choose the S14. It is lighter... and lighter is faster. I would argue that the Z32 multilink front suspension is better than the S chassis but either is very capable.
The engine bays are both capable of comfortable supporting an LS. The Z32 bay is wider between the framerials, but it has less hood clearance and the headlight bucket area really impedes on the space ahead of the strut towers making intake fabrication marginally more challenging. The firewall to rad support distance is nearly identical.
I've personally owned 5 240sx's and 6 Z32s. All varieties, and all swapped. My current daily is an LQ9/LS6 cam'd Z32 vert. It gets 20+MPG, runs in the 12's trapping 110MPH, and is just a nice car to drive. The vert is also the heaviest Z, 250lb more than a 2+0 T-top.
Never did a Z32 swap but my S14 LM7 swap has been a breeze. Z32 will weigh more and the wheel base on the S14 240sx is wider then the NA but shorter than the TT. If I would had access to an Aluminum 5.3 I would have chosen that option.
FYI you can also swap out diffs hubs and axles for added 240sx reinforcement.
FYI you can also swap out diffs hubs and axles for added 240sx reinforcement.
For wheelbase, the 2 seater Z's, both turbo and non-turbo, have a shorter wheelbase than the S14 by a couple inches, and S13 for that matter by 1 inch. The 2+2 (which were all non-turbo in the states) has a longer wheelbase by a couple inches.
The track width is wider on the Z32 in all cases. Width contributes to stability and cornering capability.
The prices of the cars are nearly identical these days, which makes the Z32 more desireable in my opinion, you're just getting more car for your money. In the end, it is your choice, buy what you like.
08-24-2014, 01:44 PM
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Not sure if the z32 needs any modification, I've seen a thread on a z32 that cut the k member and lowered the engine mounting points and I've seen others that nothing was done to the k member, maybe super hatch can clear that up, but I picked up my s14 for 300, and since I'm not much of a fabricator the sikky swap kit made everything a breeze, from engine install to power steering connections, and now they offer a/c kits, both cars share the same r200 7.8" diff, and the engine bay in a s13 is ~5 inches longer than the s14, of course the rarity of the 300zx is something I'd consider and that it comes with a 5 lug wheel pattern, which unless you get a se model 240sx it'll be a 4 lug, I lucked out and bought a se model with a sunroof, which is my only luxury in my build
08-24-2014, 02:46 PM
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Both seem to have kits available these days and both have tons of aftermarket suspension support. Pick the car you like better.
I'd personally go with an S car since the Z32 platform commands very high prices in my area. S chassis cars are easily found in ok shape for 2-3k, where as any Z32 that and be limped home with a rod knock is close to 4k.
I'd personally go with an S car since the Z32 platform commands very high prices in my area. S chassis cars are easily found in ok shape for 2-3k, where as any Z32 that and be limped home with a rod knock is close to 4k.
08-24-2014, 02:46 PM
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Not sure if the z32 needs any modification, I've seen a thread on a z32 that cut the k member and lowered the engine mounting points and I've seen others that nothing was done to the k member, maybe super hatch can clear that up, but I picked up my s14 for 300, and since I'm not much of a fabricator the sikky swap kit made everything a breeze, from engine install to power steering connections, and now they offer a/c kits, both cars share the same r200 7.8" diff, and the engine bay in a s13 is ~5 inches longer than the s14, of course the rarity of the 300zx is something I'd consider and that it comes with a 5 lug wheel pattern, which unless you get a se model 240sx it'll be a 4 lug, I lucked out and bought a se model with a sunroof, which is my only luxury in my build
Either one is a great platform...
08-24-2014, 04:49 PM
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^^^sorry about the confusion Superhatch caught my mistake. Was typing out the door. I have owned my S chassis for 12 years and love it. I think it really comes down to personal preference. I fell in love with the S14 240sx chassis from day 1 so I went that route.
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08-24-2014, 05:08 PM
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I personally like the s14 kouki best of the two, lighter weight but still has a back seat(if that matters), plenty of room underhood and to me a better sitting position(z32 seats sit lower compared to the dash but hey i have an fbody so not much room to talk haha). They do seem to be hard to find in the midwest for a good price that arent all rusted out or beat to hell. From what ive seen the z32 needs to have the kmember dropped or the engine moved back and loose the heat/ac box for the ls to find under the factory hood, is that still the case?
Now with all that said I would build either one in a heartbeat if I found a quality car in my budget...anyone want to trade for a formula roller haha
Now with all that said I would build either one in a heartbeat if I found a quality car in my budget...anyone want to trade for a formula roller haha
08-24-2014, 05:51 PM
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Not anymore, now that you can bolt the stock trans to the LS and get an oil pan made for the car, there is no need to drop everything for the T56 to fit in the tunnel and burger the firewall to get an aftermarket pan to fit.
08-24-2014, 10:02 PM
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Each car has their merit. The Z32 is a more refined platform, and if I were to be building a daily driver, weekend cruiser, I would pick the Z32. The craftsmanship and quality of materials throughout the car is simply better than the S14, and this was reflected in their respective base prices in the mid 90's. The T-tops are nice for fair weather driving, the hatchback design is nicer for carrying stuff (especially in the 2+2). The Z32 can fit wider tires without flares than the S cars, which is a nice bonus too.
For a track car, whether drag/autox/drift... I'd choose the S14. It is lighter... and lighter is faster. I would argue that the Z32 multilink front suspension is better than the S chassis but either is very capable.
The engine bays are both capable of comfortable supporting an LS. The Z32 bay is wider between the framerials, but it has less hood clearance and the headlight bucket area really impedes on the space ahead of the strut towers making intake fabrication marginally more challenging. The firewall to rad support distance is nearly identical.
I've personally owned 5 240sx's and 6 Z32s. All varieties, and all swapped. My current daily is an LQ9/LS6 cam'd Z32 vert. It gets 20+MPG, runs in the 12's trapping 110MPH, and is just a nice car to drive. The vert is also the heaviest Z, 250lb more than a 2+0 T-top.
I'm a little confused on your statement, because you mention wheelbase, and then "wider", when the wheelbase is the length between the front and rear wheel centerlines and the track width is the width between wheel contact patch centers.
For wheelbase, the 2 seater Z's, both turbo and non-turbo, have a shorter wheelbase than the S14 by a couple inches, and S13 for that matter by 1 inch. The 2+2 (which were all non-turbo in the states) has a longer wheelbase by a couple inches.
The track width is wider on the Z32 in all cases. Width contributes to stability and cornering capability.
The prices of the cars are nearly identical these days, which makes the Z32 more desireable in my opinion, you're just getting more car for your money. In the end, it is your choice, buy what you like.
For a track car, whether drag/autox/drift... I'd choose the S14. It is lighter... and lighter is faster. I would argue that the Z32 multilink front suspension is better than the S chassis but either is very capable.
The engine bays are both capable of comfortable supporting an LS. The Z32 bay is wider between the framerials, but it has less hood clearance and the headlight bucket area really impedes on the space ahead of the strut towers making intake fabrication marginally more challenging. The firewall to rad support distance is nearly identical.
I've personally owned 5 240sx's and 6 Z32s. All varieties, and all swapped. My current daily is an LQ9/LS6 cam'd Z32 vert. It gets 20+MPG, runs in the 12's trapping 110MPH, and is just a nice car to drive. The vert is also the heaviest Z, 250lb more than a 2+0 T-top.
I'm a little confused on your statement, because you mention wheelbase, and then "wider", when the wheelbase is the length between the front and rear wheel centerlines and the track width is the width between wheel contact patch centers.
For wheelbase, the 2 seater Z's, both turbo and non-turbo, have a shorter wheelbase than the S14 by a couple inches, and S13 for that matter by 1 inch. The 2+2 (which were all non-turbo in the states) has a longer wheelbase by a couple inches.
The track width is wider on the Z32 in all cases. Width contributes to stability and cornering capability.
The prices of the cars are nearly identical these days, which makes the Z32 more desireable in my opinion, you're just getting more car for your money. In the end, it is your choice, buy what you like.
08-25-2014, 07:17 AM
#13
300ZX FTW. 240SX has been done to death. Hell, my Grandma even built one, lol. Looks like your goal is eventually max power. For this reason, why limit the start w/ an l33 5.3L? IMO, best bang for your buck is an LS1/LS6. Start by installing a stock engine, then add 243 or better heads & reduce CR when your ready to add the turbos. Just make sure that the stock engine is 2000 or later or has aftermarket rod bolts. This way they won't have to be changed later.
08-25-2014, 09:10 AM
#14
Many ways to skin this cat but the most obvious way to get to 400rwhp NA is to go with the larger displacement motors such as the 5.7 or 6.0. Again, for weight savings go with the aluminum block version. It will be up to your pockets and personal choice at the end of it all. I picked up my 05 5.3 in extremely good condition for $550 hence why I bought it....budget build for me. Around me the cost of the 5.7 and 6.0 is pretty silly and I could not justify the added cost for my goals but some have better luck finding these 5.7 and 6.0 for a great price.
In the long run the later Gen motors have the stronger rod design as well as the stronger timing chain design which is helpful for boost. In general the more displacement the less need for boost pressure for a target goal (again other factors may play a role but just saying in general)
In the long run the later Gen motors have the stronger rod design as well as the stronger timing chain design which is helpful for boost. In general the more displacement the less need for boost pressure for a target goal (again other factors may play a role but just saying in general)
08-25-2014, 09:57 AM
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Many ways to skin this cat but the most obvious way to get to 400rwhp NA is to go with the larger displacement motors such as the 5.7 or 6.0. Again, for weight savings go with the aluminum block version. It will be up to your pockets and personal choice at the end of it all. I picked up my 05 5.3 in extremely good condition for $550 hence why I bought it....budget build for me. Around me the cost of the 5.7 and 6.0 is pretty silly and I could not justify the added cost for my goals but some have better luck finding these 5.7 and 6.0 for a great price.
In the long run the later Gen motors have the stronger rod design as well as the stronger timing chain design which is helpful for boost. In general the more displacement the less need for boost pressure for a target goal (again other factors may play a role but just saying in general)
In the long run the later Gen motors have the stronger rod design as well as the stronger timing chain design which is helpful for boost. In general the more displacement the less need for boost pressure for a target goal (again other factors may play a role but just saying in general)
Another thing to consider. If you want displacement and this is going in a 240 or 300zx, then keep this in mind...
6.0L LQ4/LQ9 can be had (in my area) for $1000-1500 all day long, complete longblock, no accessories. To run a truck motor, you'll need a car intake/rails/injectors/tb, which will run in the $300-600 range depending how patient you are and if you find a deal. You'll also need a water pump, damper, and accessories from a car, or just water pump and damper if you use the LOJ kit in a Z32 since it lets you keep your Z Alt, PS pump, and AC compressor. All those parts will run you another $300-600 depending where you shop and if you find a deal.
That puts the real cost of a truck motor in the $1600-$2700 range.
I've seen early LS1 motors going for $2000-$3000 lately, which is not a whole heck of a lot more than the above. Bonus is you don't have to source as many parts, and you get the aluminum block. Yes, it's a 5.7 compared to a 6.0, but the 5.7's make plenty of power.
Just food for thought.
08-25-2014, 11:29 AM
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Back last year I was contemplating an S13/14 or Z32 then I spoke with SUPERHATCH and he basically told me the same exact thing as he posted here. PLUS, they had an LS swap kit already that I didn't have to chop up the crossmember to cut the firewall up. So I went the Z32 route, let them build it using their swap kit! Glad I did!
08-27-2014, 03:53 PM
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Agreed.
Another thing to consider. If you want displacement and this is going in a 240 or 300zx, then keep this in mind...
6.0L LQ4/LQ9 can be had (in my area) for $1000-1500 all day long, complete longblock, no accessories. To run a truck motor, you'll need a car intake/rails/injectors/tb, which will run in the $300-600 range depending how patient you are and if you find a deal. You'll also need a water pump, damper, and accessories from a car, or just water pump and damper if you use the LOJ kit in a Z32 since it lets you keep your Z Alt, PS pump, and AC compressor. All those parts will run you another $300-600 depending where you shop and if you find a deal.
That puts the real cost of a truck motor in the $1600-$2700 range.
I've seen early LS1 motors going for $2000-$3000 lately, which is not a whole heck of a lot more than the above. Bonus is you don't have to source as many parts, and you get the aluminum block. Yes, it's a 5.7 compared to a 6.0, but the 5.7's make plenty of power.
Just food for thought.
Another thing to consider. If you want displacement and this is going in a 240 or 300zx, then keep this in mind...
6.0L LQ4/LQ9 can be had (in my area) for $1000-1500 all day long, complete longblock, no accessories. To run a truck motor, you'll need a car intake/rails/injectors/tb, which will run in the $300-600 range depending how patient you are and if you find a deal. You'll also need a water pump, damper, and accessories from a car, or just water pump and damper if you use the LOJ kit in a Z32 since it lets you keep your Z Alt, PS pump, and AC compressor. All those parts will run you another $300-600 depending where you shop and if you find a deal.
That puts the real cost of a truck motor in the $1600-$2700 range.
I've seen early LS1 motors going for $2000-$3000 lately, which is not a whole heck of a lot more than the above. Bonus is you don't have to source as many parts, and you get the aluminum block. Yes, it's a 5.7 compared to a 6.0, but the 5.7's make plenty of power.
Just food for thought.
I'd rather get the 300zx, only reason i'd do the 240sx is cause of the wight and the handling.
08-27-2014, 08:21 PM
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Ok SuperHatch I respect your opinion, so far i have about 9k saved up so far for the project. I don't have the car yet obviously and I like the 300zx a lot more, the thing about the 240sx that cought my eye was the light weight of it, also the reviews on how good it is as a Track car. I live in Detroit and so far found a L33 engine for $1k with all the truck accessories. I havent found a t56 trans. But if I can get a LS1 under $2500 I will. But this car would be just for me. I'd take it to work some times but this is gonna be a circuit,drag, and track car. Which of the two do you believe would be a good fit for that. And for a 9k or 10k build should I use a 5.3 and bore it out, 5.7 or get a 6.0. I want get a mid 11's or low 12's, and low as possible 0-60 (low 4's).
I'd rather get the 300zx, only reason i'd do the 240sx is cause of the wight and the handling.
I'd rather get the 300zx, only reason i'd do the 240sx is cause of the wight and the handling.
Personally, I would buy a Z32, but I can't say I'm not partial. With the LOJ kit you won't have to find a T56, which saves time and money. You can buy a cheap Z32, the complete kit with headers, and a LQ9, and still be under your budget.
08-27-2014, 10:05 PM
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Well, like I said above, my 6.0L LQ9 cam-only vert has trapped 110MPH with 3.13 gears. That's a mid to low 12 second car when hooking up, maybe into the 11s. The vert is heavier than a standard 2+0 T-top car by 250lbs, so knock another 2 tenths off.
Personally, I would buy a Z32, but I can't say I'm not partial. With the LOJ kit you won't have to find a T56, which saves time and money. You can buy a cheap Z32, the complete kit with headers, and a LQ9, and still be under your budget.
Personally, I would buy a Z32, but I can't say I'm not partial. With the LOJ kit you won't have to find a T56, which saves time and money. You can buy a cheap Z32, the complete kit with headers, and a LQ9, and still be under your budget.
i'm probably gonna go with 5.7L LS1 or LQ9
What sites do you use for sourcing engines? LKQ? I'm searching through Craiglist atm lol.