Header problem...
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TECH Junkie
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From: Port Neches, TX
Header problem... Hi All,
I've been looking for headers for my Rambler swap and finally pulled the trigger on some 2010+ Camaro 1 3/4" longtubes (Pacesetter) because all I had to go by is eye-balling pix. No header maker ever includes measurements! The DR side fits fine but the PASS side outer tube is in the frame rail and upper CA. The thing is, with the bolts loose and a 1/8" gap at the top of the flange, it all clears. So, I have some options:
The headers are coated, so I'd prefer not to cut/weld the flanges. I took them by my favorite machine shop, the guy took one look and said there's no way to fixture them for milling. Got another machinist bud looking into this. If I have to cut/weld, is there some kinda spray that can come close to matching the coating? I'd hate to have them stripped and recoated.
Anyone know if there's any kind of "shim" available to kick the tubes in towards the pan rails? It would need to be 2 5/8" x 18" with 0" at one edge and 1/8" at the other...
I've been looking for headers for my Rambler swap and finally pulled the trigger on some 2010+ Camaro 1 3/4" longtubes (Pacesetter) because all I had to go by is eye-balling pix. No header maker ever includes measurements! The DR side fits fine but the PASS side outer tube is in the frame rail and upper CA. The thing is, with the bolts loose and a 1/8" gap at the top of the flange, it all clears. So, I have some options:
- send them back and keep looking.
- cut the flanges off and weld new ones on at the proper angle.
- angle-mill the flanges.
- find some angle-shim material and use two gaskets.
The headers are coated, so I'd prefer not to cut/weld the flanges. I took them by my favorite machine shop, the guy took one look and said there's no way to fixture them for milling. Got another machinist bud looking into this. If I have to cut/weld, is there some kinda spray that can come close to matching the coating? I'd hate to have them stripped and recoated.
Anyone know if there's any kind of "shim" available to kick the tubes in towards the pan rails? It would need to be 2 5/8" x 18" with 0" at one edge and 1/8" at the other...
Banned
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,540
Likes: 207
Hi All,
I've been looking for headers for my Rambler swap and finally pulled the trigger on some 2010+ Camaro 1 3/4" longtubes (Pacesetter) because all I had to go by is eye-balling pix. No header maker ever includes measurements! The DR side fits fine but the PASS side outer tube is in the frame rail and upper CA. The thing is, with the bolts loose and a 1/8" gap at the top of the flange, it all clears. So, I have some options:
The headers are coated, so I'd prefer not to cut/weld the flanges. I took them by my favorite machine shop, the guy took one look and said there's no way to fixture them for milling. Got another machinist bud looking into this. If I have to cut/weld, is there some kinda spray that can come close to matching the coating? I'd hate to have them stripped and recoated.
Anyone know if there's any kind of "shim" available to kick the tubes in towards the pan rails? It would need to be 2 5/8" x 18" with 0" at one edge and 1/8" at the other...
I've been looking for headers for my Rambler swap and finally pulled the trigger on some 2010+ Camaro 1 3/4" longtubes (Pacesetter) because all I had to go by is eye-balling pix. No header maker ever includes measurements! The DR side fits fine but the PASS side outer tube is in the frame rail and upper CA. The thing is, with the bolts loose and a 1/8" gap at the top of the flange, it all clears. So, I have some options:
- send them back and keep looking.
- cut the flanges off and weld new ones on at the proper angle.
- angle-mill the flanges.
- find some angle-shim material and use two gaskets.
The headers are coated, so I'd prefer not to cut/weld the flanges. I took them by my favorite machine shop, the guy took one look and said there's no way to fixture them for milling. Got another machinist bud looking into this. If I have to cut/weld, is there some kinda spray that can come close to matching the coating? I'd hate to have them stripped and recoated.
Anyone know if there's any kind of "shim" available to kick the tubes in towards the pan rails? It would need to be 2 5/8" x 18" with 0" at one edge and 1/8" at the other...
Since your geometry seems so close you may want to contact Pacesetter and see if they will sell you a matching port flange to replace the one on your headers now. I would start with a painted set of headers, cut off the old flange and sink the header into the new flange on the car and get everything lined up as needed before tacking the assembly together. You can then take it off the car and weld it up.
Header manufacturers don't normally publish header measurements due to the fact that most headers are designed to be application-specific and are not intended to be installed on any other vehicle other than the one(s) it's listed to fit in the manufacturers application guide. They actually discourage attempts to do so to avoid customers such as yourself having a negative experience with their product.
Last edited by user 4737373; Dec 19, 2014 at 07:13 AM.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
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From: Port Neches, TX
These were $328 shipped, there were some painted ones for $268 but it would cost almost as much to send these back as the saved value then another $250 for coating. I've done the flange swap before on my Maverick, using LS flanges on Ford 351 headers and that venture (with coating) was over $750. I may try and hand grind these flanges to the angle I need, worst case is a new set of flanges...
Can coated headers be welded w/o stripping the coating? Is there a "paint" that mimics the color of the coating to cover the welds?
Can coated headers be welded w/o stripping the coating? Is there a "paint" that mimics the color of the coating to cover the welds?
Banned
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,540
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These were $328 shipped, there were some painted ones for $268 but it would cost almost as much to send these back as the saved value then another $250 for coating. I've done the flange swap before on my Maverick, using LS flanges on Ford 351 headers and that venture (with coating) was over $750. I may try and hand grind these flanges to the angle I need, worst case is a new set of flanges...
Can coated headers be welded w/o stripping the coating? Is there a "paint" that mimics the color of the coating to cover the welds?
Can coated headers be welded w/o stripping the coating? Is there a "paint" that mimics the color of the coating to cover the welds?
Any chance you can mount the header on a fixture or table and put to heat in it and bend it to get the clearance you need. From the pictures it doesn't look like it needs much to clear and looks like you have room at the collector to not cause problems.
If you heat it evenly you should be able to put a slight bend in it without any kinks.
If you heat it evenly you should be able to put a slight bend in it without any kinks.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 197
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
I was in a similar boat as you. After having tried six different sets of headers for my 55 olds 88 (used to live 15 minutes form Summit), I had a set that fit great on the left side but would just hit the frame at the collector flange on the right side.
Decided that it would just be easier to pie-cut the collector to turn the flange parallel to the frame and be done with it.
Found out that you can dissolve the ceramic coating with the gel type Drano. Was skeptical, but it works great. Don't need to grind it off. There is a primer left that light hand sanding takes care of.
Going to be an expensive set of headers in the end but the only ones left to try were in the $700+ range anyway.......
Good luck.
Joe
Decided that it would just be easier to pie-cut the collector to turn the flange parallel to the frame and be done with it.
Found out that you can dissolve the ceramic coating with the gel type Drano. Was skeptical, but it works great. Don't need to grind it off. There is a primer left that light hand sanding takes care of.
Going to be an expensive set of headers in the end but the only ones left to try were in the $700+ range anyway.......
Good luck.
Joe
Last edited by jozw30; Dec 20, 2014 at 08:00 AM. Reason: Typo
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2011
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From: Marengo, Ia
If it's not to late I'd return them and buy some stainless steel ones from Speed Engineering. Then you can cut and weld them all you want without worrying about them rusting and they're cheaper also at only $280.
http://www.speedengineeringlsx.com/2...inless-25-1017
http://www.speedengineeringlsx.com/2...inless-25-1017
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TECH Junkie
iTrader: (11)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,782
Likes: 7
From: Port Neches, TX
If it's not to late I'd return them and buy some stainless steel ones from Speed Engineering. Then you can cut and weld them all you want without worrying about them rusting and they're cheaper also at only $280.
http://www.speedengineeringlsx.com/2...inless-25-1017
http://www.speedengineeringlsx.com/2...inless-25-1017
So, where do you run the heat to bend four tubes at once w/o kinking them or destroying the coating? I'm thinking this is above my pay grade. If I could afford enough low-melt Cerro metal to fill the tubes, I wouldn't need heat - just brute force...
TECH Fanatic
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From: Marengo, Ia
Either that or just pay someone to TIG weld them for you.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
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From: Port Neches, TX
Figured I'd check back in with results. My first attempt was to use a carbide burr to remove about 3/4 of the welds (which were all on the inside of the pipes), cut the (fab) tacks on the outside tubes, then use a hydraulic pull cylinder to "winch" it over. After leaving the ram pulled in for three days, then relaxing it, no change. Guess the welds went deeper than they looked.
Finally did what I should have done from the start, used a Sawzall to slice the tubes from the flange. This would have prevented me from scratching up the coating on the flanges cutting the spot welds. Used the burr to finish removing the tube stubs. After doing this, I could also "slant" the tubes by cutting 1/2" from #2, 5/16" from #4, 3/16" from #6 and angling #8. That allowed the collector to move away the trans a bit.
The tubes fit tight enough not to need tacks, just marked tubes #2 & #8 with a marker pen to see if they moved while removing the header. Threw some tacks on the insides, then test-fitted. After removing again, I welded each tube from the inside running about 3/8" weld at a time and immediately quenching with a soaked towel. This keeps the coating from getting trashed. There are a few spots where it bubbled a bit, but mostly on the flanges where the mass was heavier. Once in the car, the flanges are hard to see. I'm gonna run them as-is and if they start spalling, I'll send the one header off for a recoat. Ended up with 3/8" on the frame rail and 3/4" on the starter case...
Finally did what I should have done from the start, used a Sawzall to slice the tubes from the flange. This would have prevented me from scratching up the coating on the flanges cutting the spot welds. Used the burr to finish removing the tube stubs. After doing this, I could also "slant" the tubes by cutting 1/2" from #2, 5/16" from #4, 3/16" from #6 and angling #8. That allowed the collector to move away the trans a bit.
The tubes fit tight enough not to need tacks, just marked tubes #2 & #8 with a marker pen to see if they moved while removing the header. Threw some tacks on the insides, then test-fitted. After removing again, I welded each tube from the inside running about 3/8" weld at a time and immediately quenching with a soaked towel. This keeps the coating from getting trashed. There are a few spots where it bubbled a bit, but mostly on the flanges where the mass was heavier. Once in the car, the flanges are hard to see. I'm gonna run them as-is and if they start spalling, I'll send the one header off for a recoat. Ended up with 3/8" on the frame rail and 3/4" on the starter case...