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My old exhaust had O2 bungs in the pipe after the collector. Initially I thought I'd need an extension for the passenger side. And reroute the drivers side. For different locations and clock locations. The drivers side was about same location. Already the spark plugs were easier to install I see no issue with wires as you've mentioned.
Todd I would also like to say thank you for the photos and your time in answer these questions. I have not seen a question on a LSA engine yet. I have a 69 Chevelle. I know that AC questions are not your primary concern but it is a major problem with the LSA engine. I am going to be using a Chevy Connect and Cruze LSA that comes with a 4L85 trans. Super Chevy did an article on this a few years ago (stock location) using Holley part number 12611HKR. They had a problem with the Alternator hitting the steering gear (stock LSA FEAD) and were unable to add AC without notching the frame. They solved the Alternator problem by switching the location of the PS and Alternator with Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244. Essentially flipping the two using Corvette brackets for everything except the supercharger. Here are the questions:
1. How is this new bracket better than the existing Holley swap bracket forward 1.25 Part# 12623HKR (using tall and narrow mounts). I understand that the 12623HKR is a general part and your is specific, but I would still like to understand the differences.
2. Would I still have to use the Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244 to flip the PS and Alt or would the stock CTS/LSA FEAD fit with AC?
3. I see you test fit a few AC brackets and units but do you think the CTS / LSA AC would fit? If not, they recommend the Corvette AC unit. Up till now I had been planning on putting the AC up top with a KWIK AC bracket.
4. The car is going to be lowered and I wanted to ask about exhaust clearance. I was planning on using a trans cross member from G Force made for Chevelle with 4L85 instead of the stock unit. Is there any reason the G Force unit should not work with your mounts and still maintain the correct drivetrain incline of 3%.
Again, I understand you cannot test every possible AC combination, but I would really appreciate your thoughts.
Todd I would also like to say thank you for the photos and your time in answer these questions. I have not seen a question on a LSA engine yet. I have a 69 Chevelle. I know that AC questions are not your primary concern but it is a major problem with the LSA engine. I am going to be using a Chevy Connect and Cruze LSA that comes with a 4L85 trans. Super Chevy did an article on this a few years ago (stock location) using Holley part number 12611HKR. They had a problem with the Alternator hitting the steering gear (stock LSA FEAD) and were unable to add AC without notching the frame. They solved the Alternator problem by switching the location of the PS and Alternator with Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244. Essentially flipping the two using Corvette brackets for everything except the supercharger. Here are the questions:
1. How is this new bracket better than the existing Holley swap bracket forward 1.25 Part# 12623HKR (using tall and narrow mounts). I understand that the 12623HKR is a general part and your is specific, but I would still like to understand the differences.
2. Would I still have to use the Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244 to flip the PS and Alt or would the stock CTS/LSA FEAD fit with AC?
3. I see you test fit a few AC brackets and units but do you think the CTS / LSA AC would fit? If not, they recommend the Corvette AC unit. Up till now I had been planning on putting the AC up top with a KWIK AC bracket.
4. The car is going to be lowered and I wanted to ask about exhaust clearance. I was planning on using a trans cross member from G Force made for Chevelle with 4L85 instead of the stock unit. Is there any reason the G Force unit should not work with your mounts and still maintain the correct drivetrain incline of 3%.
Again, I understand you cannot test every possible AC combination, but I would really appreciate your thoughts.
Hello Mdavid and Merry Christmas to you. These newly developed Hooker A-body components provide many fitment/functional advantages that the older Hooker (or any other brand) universal type components cannot.
The engine brackets themselves are designed specifically for the 1968-72 A-body application and are designed around the geometry of 4th-gen F-body engine mounts and the Holley 302-2 oil pan to allow the engine to be installed lower in the frame than is possible with any frame stand/swap plate mount set-up. This is done to work in conjunction with the Hooker transmission crossmember (or stock crossmember in some applications) to provide the optimized U-joint operating angles that have eluded many A-body swappers in years past.
The other benefit of using the 4th-gen F-body mounts is they remove the impediment that frame stands/swap plates present when trying to install a low-mount A/C compressor in these cars as you are wanting to do; the stock frame stands and plates cantilever out in front of the crossmember into the same space that is needed for installing the A/C compressor.
You will have interference issues with the stock LSA alternator and will have to reconfigure that side of your accessory drive with the LS7 alternator/ PS pump components (may be the same part no. you listed)to clear the streering box.
I don't know anything about the design geometry of the G-force crossmember, so I cannot say how compatible it will be with the Hooker engine brackets. If it was designed as a 4L80 swap crossmember for use with a SB/BB Chevy in an A-body, then it would only be a bolt-in option if you used stock location/1" set-back engine brackets, which would give you issues up front trying to install a low-mount A/C compressor. The other thing to be aware of is you will not be able to install the G-force (or any) crossmember into the car with the engine and trans in place if it is a solid one-piece assembly, which is the reason the Hooker crossmember has a bolt-on foot on one side of the assembly.
The Hooker mid-length and long-tube headers and exhaust systems were designed such that they align with the humps in the stock Chevelle crossmember and the identically located humps in the Hooker crossmember. I'm just about to the point where I can post up photos of the rest of these components so you can get an idea as to the clearances achieved overall.
1. Why do you think the CTS/LSA alternator will not fit? It would make life much easier.
2. If not, I can use the Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244. This package is based on the LS7.
3. This still leaves me with the AC problem. My choices are the CTS AC bracket or Corvette bracket. At least these are the ones named in the instructions . Any thoughts if either or both of these will fit?
4. I see you did test the F body AC bracket but I am not sure I can substitute this part. do you have any plans for testing the LS7 brackets?
5. To be sure, I know your system is for LS swap but will it work with the LSA block? I am not sure if the LSA has any unique mounting bosses?
6. Just to be clear, your comment that you cannot install an trans crossmember (solid one-piece assembly) if the engine and trans are in place? What prevents this? I picture the engine/ trans hanging in the tunnel and the crossmember simply lifting the assembly until it rest on the side rails? What am I missing?
Thank you again for taking the time. Finding information on LSA swap in a 69 Chevelle is little to none so any comments you have are appreciated.
1. Why do you think the CTS/LSA alternator will not fit? It would make life much easier.
2. If not, I can use the Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244. This package is based on the LS7.
3. This still leaves me with the AC problem. My choices are the CTS AC bracket or Corvette bracket. At least these are the ones named in the instructions . Any thoughts if either or both of these will fit?
4. I see you did test the F body AC bracket but I am not sure I can substitute this part. do you have any plans for testing the LS7 brackets?
5. To be sure, I know your system is for LS swap but will it work with the LSA block? I am not sure if the LSA has any unique mounting bosses?
6. Just to be clear, your comment that you cannot install an trans crossmember (solid one-piece assembly) if the engine and trans are in place? What prevents this? I picture the engine/ trans hanging in the tunnel and the crossmember simply lifting the assembly until it rest on the side rails? What am I missing?
Thank you again for taking the time. Finding information on LSA swap in a 69 Chevelle is little to none so any comments you have are appreciated.
The possibility of the LSA alternator not fitting is strictly due to its proximity being in the same location as the vehicle steering box. As far as the A/C is concerned, there are aftermarket brackets I've seen that permit you to install a Sanden compressor down low on an LSA install and I think you might have better success going that route since that provides you with a fixed displacement compressor (the CTS and LSA units are variable displacement). The LSA engine mounting bosses are in the same location as every other LS engine, so there's no reason for concern there. The crossmember rests inside the frame rails, so it needs to be fed into place on an angle; the case of the 4L80 is so long that prevents the crossmember from being able to be angled enough to fit inside the frame before in crashes into the vertical gussets that are attached to the inside of each frame rail behind the transmission.
Wow you are dedicated. I just got past my second beer and you already responded. Fantastic.
I agree with your comments on the alternator. I had mentioned above that Super Chevy had done a LSA install into a Chevelle. They used the Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244 I keep referring to. I am attaching two pictures from there article that show the alternator clearence after using this drive package. You will note it is still very tight. My question is that you mention that one benefit of these mounts is that they allow you to drop the engine/trans lower to achieve the drive angle. My concern is that if the PS pulley in this picture gets any lower it may hit the steering gear. So how much lower will the engine sit using your new mounts as compared to using the general Holley Part# 12623HKR?.
With the AC, does Holley make a AC bracket I could use with the CTS/LSA engine. Knowing that the modified LSA drive package is essentially an LS7 setup. You can tell that I had been planning to replicate the Super Chevy article and the AC was the hang up. I would like to use your brackets but I want to be sure I don't create a new problem with Alt and PS.
I know you are test fitting accessories right now, but will Holley have a complete accessory drive kit that will fit in the Chevelle using your new mounts?
Here are the Pics from the Super Chevy article. I tried to get the actual pics but I was only able to paste the addresses. Paste into address bar.
Wow you are dedicated. I just got past my second beer and you already responded. Fantastic.
I agree with your comments on the alternator. I had mentioned above that Super Chevy had done a LSA install into a Chevelle. They used the Modified LSA Accessory Drive Package #19303244 I keep referring to. I am attaching two pictures from there article that show the alternator clearence after using this drive package. You will note it is still very tight. My question is that you mention that one benefit of these mounts is that they allow you to drop the engine/trans lower to achieve the drive angle. My concern is that if the PS pulley in this picture gets any lower it may hit the steering gear. So how much lower will the engine sit using your new mounts as compared to using the general Holley Part# 12623HKR?.
With the AC, does Holley make a AC bracket I could use with the CTS/LSA engine. Knowing that the modified LSA drive package is essentially an LS7 setup. You can tell that I had been planning to replicate the Super Chevy article and the AC was the hang up. I would like to use your brackets but I want to be sure I don't create a new problem with Alt and PS.
I know you are test fitting accessories right now, but will Holley have a complete accessory drive kit that will fit in the Chevelle using your new mounts?
Here are the Pics from the Super Chevy article. I tried to get the actual pics but I was only able to paste the addresses. Paste into address bar.
The new Hooker brackets will place the engine slightly lower in the frame than swap plates do, but I can't say by what descrete amount as the difference was not measured. If you do experience interference with the pulley, you can swap it out for one of a smaller diameter as others have had to do in other applications. Holley will not be developing any new Accessory drive brackets in the near future.
I have read thru your thread and have a couple questions. I have a 71 Chevelle that my dad and I have been working on for 6 or 7 years and are swapping in an ls1 and t56. When we started there weren't alot of kits so we built most of our own stuff and had a fbody pan modified. Everything fits good but I see one of the main advantages of your kit is you get the correct driveline angles, I've seen this discussed alot on here but it has never been real clear to me how to check it and what it should be? The other thing is, are you developing a complete exhaust system that will be available for the a bodies? And what will the sound qualities be like? How loud, drone? We are also getti g ready to start on dads 70 el camino and are looking at your stuff for it. Thanks for your time.
I have read thru your thread and have a couple questions. I have a 71 Chevelle that my dad and I have been working on for 6 or 7 years and are swapping in an ls1 and t56. When we started there weren't alot of kits so we built most of our own stuff and had a fbody pan modified. Everything fits good but I see one of the main advantages of your kit is you get the correct driveline angles, I've seen this discussed alot on here but it has never been real clear to me how to check it and what it should be? The other thing is, are you developing a complete exhaust system that will be available for the a bodies? And what will the sound qualities be like? How loud, drone? We are also getti g ready to start on dads 70 el camino and are looking at your stuff for it. Thanks for your time.
Optimizing the installed drivetrain geometry gives you direct and indirect benefits that you will appreciate long after the swap is done.
The direct benefit comes from having optimized U-joint working angles, which ensures long, safe, vibration-free service life from them, assuming your driveshaft is a quality built piece.
The secondary benefit comes from the fact that the belly or oil pan of your transmission will be tucked up higher into the car to provide you with more ground clearance when the engine/trans inclination angle has been engineered to optimize U-joint working angles.
The simplified explanation as to what you are trying to accomplish when measuring and adjusting your J-joint working angles is to make them both have the same (within 1/2 a degree) but opposite operating angles that are at least .5 and less than 3 degrees. You need the U-joints to have at least .5 degrees of operating angle to function or the U-joint trunnions and needle bearings will fail due to brinelling.
3 degrees is the maximum designed operating angle that can be tolerated, but that should not be used as your target as the maximum operational angle that a U-joint can be safely subjected to is RPM dependent (i.e. the higher the rpm, the lower the angle needs to be).
It should be understood that the most efficient transfer of power is through the use of the shallowest U-joint angles over .5 degrees that can be achieved.
As far as measuring the angles goes, I recommend that you don't use one of those cheap analog protractors as they only read in 1 degree increments and don't give good repeatability. You need to use a digital angle meter that will give you readouts in .1 degree resolution; I use the Clinometer app on my iphone to do all my development related measuring.
Yes stock f body pan no frame modifications. Im using a modified chevelle transmission crossmember. I really like how the headers fit.
Can you tell us how your exhaust system will clamp to the headers? I have some butt band connectors laying around but was thinking about lap band connectors. I've never used this style of collector before.
Yes stock f body pan no frame modifications. Im using a modified chevelle transmission crossmember. I really like how the headers fit.
Can you tell us how your exhaust system will clamp to the headers? I have some butt band connectors laying around but was thinking about lap band connectors. I've never used this style of collector before.
Here's the Torca coupler clamp that we package with all our new Hooker exhaust systems that connect to our LS swap headers. It has a low profile to maximize ground clearance and an internal inter-locking sleeve that prevents the formation of a leak path...I don't use anything else anymore. You can buy a pack of 2 from Hooker under part number 41172HKR.
The 1 3/4" and 1 7/8" blackheart headers for 68-72 A-Bodies have 3" collectors. Correct me if I am wrong but the correct part number for the 3" Torca clamps is 41173HKR. The part number you gave (41172HKY) is for 2.5" Torca clamp.
Any update on when forward position frame mounts will ship?
The 1 3/4" and 1 7/8" blackheart headers for 68-72 A-Bodies have 3" collectors. Correct me if I am wrong but the correct part number for the 3" Torca clamps is 41173HKR. The part number you gave (41172HKY) is for 2.5" Torca clamp.
Any update on when forward position frame mounts will ship?
Thanks for catching that...I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention to the description.
I don't have any updated information on the availability of the engine brackets and won't be able to find out anything until after the 1st as the majority of folks here are out until then.
I am very glad to see this build looks like some nice work, it is very similar to what I am trying to do with my 70 Goat. Is there a difference between these stock and forward frame mounts and others on the market, and for the stock location mounts are there any accessory options that do not require modifying the frame to fit? Are the mounts and headers on the website the current product you have been working on.
I have boxed the frame and have an ABC weld in removable cross member, so I need to locate the engine in order to mount the cross member, but I do not want to buy and hold parts such as headers and A/C until I am ready for them.
I am very glad to see this build looks like some nice work, it is very similar to what I am trying to do with my 70 Goat. Is there a difference between these stock and forward frame mounts and others on the market, and for the stock location mounts are there any accessory options that do not require modifying the frame to fit? Are the mounts and headers on the website the current product you have been working on.
I have boxed the frame and have an ABC weld in removable cross member, so I need to locate the engine in order to mount the cross member, but I do not want to buy and hold parts such as headers and A/C until I am ready for them.
There are two major differences between these engine brackets and others on the market, the first of which being the fact that these are the only brackets on the markets designed specifically around the geometry of the Holley 302-2 oil pan to put the front of the engine as low as possible in the chassis while still providing ample clearance between the inner tie rods and the oil pan.
The second unique design feature is the use of 4th-gen F-body engine mounts to attach the engine to the frame, which completely clears the area in front of the engine crossmember to allow installation of a low-mount A/C compressor in most installations.
The truck, 4th-gen F-body and Corvette accessory drive systems can all be utilized with the stock position brackets.
Yes, the headers and engine brackets shown on the Holley website A-body swap application pages are these same parts.
Outstanding, I will order some mounts now. I have some mounts from Dirty Dingo but they are not going to work for me and I want the engine to be low for better handling and more importantly to ensure the hood clearance. Great work and thanks for the fast and descriptive reply.
Great job on the parts development. Every thing you have done is very similar to the solutions I used on my car a few years back. I have the early hooker abody headers, they were really tight to the floor boards but have been great after some modification. My only complaint is plug wire to header tube clearance isn't optimal. To clarify, I used and Fbody oil pan, non variable compressor with vintage air. Currently just under 19k miles on the set up.
12-17-2015, 01:29 PM
