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LS Swap labor time estimate/ Legal Advice!

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Old 08-30-2016, 09:03 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by MorePSI
What do you have in writing of any kind between you and the shop you're dealing with? There should be some kind of written service order detailing what was to be done and the price to be paid. Proving a verbal agreement becomes difficult unless you can get the other person to come right out and say that was the original agreement. Generally I've found everyone has a hazy memory when it comes to verbal contracts later on if things go south so I follow up any phone call or conversation with an email detailing what was said and agreed upon with the pretense of "my memory isn't perfect so this is to make sure we're both on the same page". Not saying you couldn't get a badass lawyer that could do something for you but lawyers aren't free and depending on exact costs you may not come out ahead at all.

Source: Not a lawyer but I've dealt with many contracts in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range with the occasional issue of time, money, or scope (sometimes all three) and that's been my experience.
Unfortunately, i do not have enough in writing, mostly everything was in text messages. But, i do have them. This was definitely a learning experience for me
Old 08-30-2016, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by truckdoug
every rod shop I have ever dealt with has gladly used my supplied parts (of course they are much happier to make some margin on stuff they sell, so I do that when I can)

and they have been incredibly clear on the scope of the work they were to do, and spelled it out on the service order. I usually pay half down, on a credit card so I have some leverage.

if they can't itemize what was done beyond "put the motor and stuff in" it means they arent tracking labor properly and are pretty fly-by nite. amateur hour.

$7000 is my neck of the woods is still small claims court. council is nice but not necessary.
file a claim and don't send them a penny. Him selling off your property would be looked upon poorly by the court.

quick fyi, a verbal agreement is as good as any legal document in most property cases. only specific types of transaction require written contracts. if homie said 24 hours labor and you didnt agree to changes in that number, THAT is your case.

sources: wife is a know-it-all (lawyer) and i been ****** with cars for 25 years


let me offer some more advice bro. don;t let this thing consume you. I've been in protracted legal battles and the stress of a just a couple grand is incredible. Don't put your life on hold as this **** tends to drag out.

good luck
Thanks so much for the advice. I've been trying to stay normal through it all. Most of all trying not to come out of character in this situation.
Old 08-30-2016, 11:20 AM
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Text messages will work fine. He cannot charge you 3x the agreed upon price without asking for permission and documenting WHY. He has to prove that u OK'd him to move forward. If yu have the 20hrs mentioned in a text then you are in good shape. These guys that say things come up...agreed but it is your job as a business owner to convey those to a customer and get peission to move on. We are talking 3x the original quote. Not 10 or 20%. Of as a business owner you think this is OK or can understand please post your business so we can steer clear. It is NEVER OK to charge 300% more than quoted without asking if said person still want to do it and documentation as to why it happened. This is not a gray area. Written contract are nice but a text will absolutely work.
Old 08-30-2016, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MIAmotorsports
Text messages will work fine. He cannot charge you 3x the agreed upon price without asking for permission and documenting WHY. He has to prove that u OK'd him to move forward. If yu have the 20hrs mentioned in a text then you are in good shape. These guys that say things come up...agreed but it is your job as a business owner to convey those to a customer and get peission to move on. We are talking 3x the original quote. Not 10 or 20%. Of as a business owner you think this is OK or can understand please post your business so we can steer clear. It is NEVER OK to charge 300% more than quoted without asking if said person still want to do it and documentation as to why it happened. This is not a gray area. Written contract are nice but a text will absolutely work.
Thanks so much, you've been a tremendous help. Im glad im not the only one that feels it's not right to blindside someone who clearly gave a budget for labor and parts. I will try my best to avoid litigation, because im ready to end this nightmare. But, I always told not to rush, me rushing to get my swap done put me right at mercy of trusting someone to do what they said they would. I know now, I have to go into business with the expectation that people are inherently crooked.
Old 08-30-2016, 01:05 PM
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As MIA said, text messages are fine generally. If there is anything in text saying "I'm doing X labor/job/whatever for X amount of money" and there isn't anything to the effect of "X issue came up and we're looking at X amount of money to correct" with some kind of confirmation or agreement from you then the shop is in the wrong for even thinking of doing that. A fixed price agreement like what this sounds like is always where an end product, in this case a driving vehicle, is provided for the amount agreed upon within the time frame agreed upon regardless of how many man hours are required. If things come up (IE. schedule is getting accelerated, issues with components, unanticipated problems requiring additional time) the correct way to go about it is to bring up the issue for resolution and halting work if it's something that has immediate ramifications.

Since you mentioned studying for a degree in one of the engineering disciplines, you'll likely have a project management/project engineering class that discusses some of this and how it's generally accounted for in planning.
Old 09-01-2016, 12:47 PM
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You hate to see this happen. Keep us updated on what happens.
Old 09-03-2016, 01:49 PM
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If I understand correctly - quoted around $3K billed around $7K.

What is the probability that lawyers get involved and you get your car back for cheaper?

I recently wrapped up an LQ9/ T56 swap in a '96 Impala myself. The amount of hours I spent is irrelevant, as I spent a lot of time cleaning up and replacing unrelated components along the way (ABS delete, all new brake lines, freshen up suspension, new brakes), but even with purchasing a plug and play harness (that used my donor harness) there was still a lot to be done. I threw the towel in trying to get the AC to work, and dropped the "finished" car off at a local shop with a pretty good reputation. They blamed my compressor, bought a new one, burned it up and refused to warrantee it (blamed the harness) and "gave up." $1K down the toilet.



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