I wanted to make sure that this gets seen since it's not the type of thing your going to see very often. So lets cut the BS and get to the point.....As car's have gotten newer more and more things are getting moved onto some type of data bus meaning your not able to wire things in like you used to be able to. As many of you know this means that one of the first things your going to loose are the factory gauges in most swaps unless your using a vehicle that's more then 20 years old. There are a couple of companies that make specialty computers or modules that allow you to retain factory gauges in**SOME** swaps depending on the type of vehicle and engine your using but even if your lucky enough to have vehicle that there is a module avaible for they are anything but cheap. I don't like the look of after market gauges in a stock dash and I know a lot of others feel the same way....but your options are limited on what you can do about this.

Well.... my options are only limited by the amount of time I have to invest. I think we've all been told at some point in our lives that you can do anything you want if you put your mind to it and are willing to work for it. Well that's exactly what I've been done for some time now.

While this is far from complete.....this is proof that hot rodding can keep up with modern technology if we're willing to adapt and look for new ways to make things work like people have been doing for nearly a hundred years.

And with out further delay I give you the GM Class 2 serial bus to Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep conversion module...

 

Wow, talk about a game changer!!!! How much? Do you have any other gauge clusters coming up or plans?

Thanks.

Stampede.

 

Looks great! Keep up the good work.

 

This actually does a LOT more then just the cluster, the cluster is just an easy way to visualize what's being done. This also works in conjunction with the HVAC system and the Body Control module.

Now to answer your question...YES I have a number of other clusters and complete integration systems that are already in the works. A couple off the top of my head would be..
99-02 F body with either an E38/4th gen engine or a stand alone EFI system like MS3
04-06 GTO
97-06 E46 BMW with 3rd or 4th gen engine and GM pcm or Stand alone EFI like MS3
04-13 E90 BMW same computers as the E46
08+ Silverado/Tahoe etc W/Stand alone EFI(MS3) or Cummins swaps
99-07 Silverado/Tahoe etc with 4th gen enigne/pcm, stand alone EFI or Cummins swaps
02-05 Jeep Liberty 3rd or 4th gen LS W/stock PCM
99-04 Wrangler same as the Liberty....not 100% on the year range for these yet
96-05 Dodge Dakota/RAM same setups as the Liberty

Now obviously with a list this large some of these are going to take a long time to happen but..... given enough time....they all will happen. I'm not a sponsor here or even a real business so I don't want to discuss what modules like this would cost but lets say just about anyone will be able to afford one even for a budget swap. It's been a LONG time since I've bought after market gauges but just doing a quick search these would cost significantly less then a full set of Autometer gauges and will offer significantly more functionality then your going to be able to get from even a $800-$1000 set of gauges.

With a SINGLE gauge I can display ANYTHING on that gauge I want. My current prototype board I used for the video doesn't have any additional inputs for a switch to toggle things but the next board I'm working on does. For example the Jeep cluster doesn't have an oil pressure gauge....or does it? How about trans temp......coolants not the only thing I can put on the temp gauge. Of course you can only display one item at a time on the same gauge so it does have it's limits but it brings new possibility to stock clusters that I don't think has been done before.

And just as a side note.....I have ZERO plans to interact with ABS or Airbag systems. If a vehicle has them it'll be no different then if you swapped the vehicle and added a set of universal gauges. I can turn out the warning lights but the systems will not work. Those open up possible liability law suits I wouldn't even want to think about.

 

Cool stuff Pete, I'm a big fan of your hard work.

 

Nice work, I would definitely be interested in gen4 to 2007+ Jeep .

 

If someone that had a stock vehicle was willing to collect data logs it's be something I'd work on. I cab buy every module for a vehicle but with out logs from a running/driving stock vehicle having the modules on a bench doesn't do any good. The challenging part about most of this is collecting logs with the necessary data unless I have direct access to a vehicle to log myself.

 

Could you potentially use something like Teamviewer to remotely log the data?
What kind of equipment would be needed to datalog?

Jay

 

As far as the logs them selves go they would be just plain old txt files abd are easy enough to share that something like Teamviewer likely would be overkill.

As for hardware that's a bit trickier. I'm working with someone on creating an Arduino bus logger that saves to an SD card but it's a ways out from being done. The hardware is pretty cheap for something like this where I could ship it to someone that was going to do logging with just a small deposit....to make sure I get the hardware back once the logging was complete. It wouldn't need any computer or outside program to work and would be about as simple as you can imagine. But the simplicity comes at the cost of making the logs harder to sort.

I'm also talking to someone about writing a program that would work with the AVT-852 and would be far more robust then an Arduino logger...... and would greatly simplify the logging process/data analyse but a fully loaded AVT interface cost around $400 so "loaning" it out would have a large finical risk attached making an Arduino based logging system much more appealing.

 

I haven't datalogged anything, so I'm not 100% how it works exactly. I thought if you used Teamviewer you could make sure you got the info you needed.
But, if it works like HPTuners and just logs EVERYTHING (ish) I can see why Teamviewer isn't necessary. My GF has an '09 JKU Sahara with the 3.8, and it's completely stock. It's not a project (yet, hehe) but I've thought about swapping in a V8 in the future, both because the thing needs a little more power, and because an LS V8 (probably 4.8 or 5.3) would likely get better MPG.

Do you know if they changed anything relevant when they switched to the 3.6L VVT engine? IIRC, that was done in '12.

Jay

 

I can't talk specifics but I know that that the 3.6 changes most every thing on the data bus based on what I've read. One of the main things that promoted my work on this stuff was when a friend looked into LS swapping a 10 Jeep with the 3.8 and showed me what it was going to cost him to make every thing work. There is a kit for the 08 ish and newer wranglers that does the data bus conversion but your talking thousands of dollars for the conversion module alone even with out the rest of the swap kit. Seeing what the company was charging made me think this was highway robbery...and it was unlikely they would sell very many modules at this price. Several months later it looked as if they were in fact selling these modules and it made me think that if someone could do the same thing and sell them for a fraction of the cost people will be beating down the doors for them in a couple more years when the price on these vehicles starts to come down.

As for the logging.....

You need multiple logs with a very specific set of conditions for each log to try and isolate what bytes are changing from log A to log B so you want to minimize things on the data bus that will change that are bytes your not interested in. CAN is just a bitch to log because of the speed the data moves at....not so much the amount of data because in comparison with PC stuff it's not moving a lot of data it's just small messages that move really fast. So getting long logs isn't all that useful, multiple 3-5 second logs(assuming the condition your after occurs) are far more useful. For example if your looking for data related to the temp gauge, you would want logs with the engine cold, warm and hot. All logs should be taken under the same conditions to minimize the amount of variation of data bytes. If you were logging for RPM data you would want short snap shots of the data bus key on engine off, idling at like 800 RPM, then again at 1500 RPM and maybe even 2000 RPM. Speedometer I've found is easiest to log by turning the engine off and coasting while recording a log but you need to do it as various speeds and cost while the speed drops at least several MPH.....by logging speed with the engine off your removing a lot of the chatter over the bus and there will be a clear pattern of the speed slowly dropping.

I hope this gives a better idea of why something like team viewer wouldn't be all that helpful. I mean you could log every thing possible in a single session but doing multiple smaller sessions I've found make it much easier to sort things out.

This is what a bus log may look like, now keep in mind a 3 second log generated a little over 500 lines of data this is just a fraction of a second worth of data with the key on and engine off from an E38...
0C5 20 00 00 00 20 00 00 00
184 00
1C9 0F FF EF FE 03 FF 3F
1CD 40 00 0F FF 7F
1E5 26 FF 05 E0 00 00 F8 00
1E9 00 00 00 04 A0 00 00 00
0C9 00 00 00 20 00 40 00
191 06 43 06 43 05 C6 00
1A1 00 10 40
1C1 02 67 02
2C5 02 67 03
3C1 07 65 04 00 00 00 00 00
3D1 10 3F 80 00 00 00 00 00
3E9 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1CB 00 00 00
0F1 1C 7D 00 00
3F1 00 FF 4F 18 01 F3
0C1 30 00 00
0C5 30 00 00
0F9 01 E9
1E5 26 FF 05 80 00 00 FB 00
199 8F FF 0F FF EF FF 00 FF <DATA ERROR
2F9 0B 00 0F 00 00 <DATA ERROR
19D 40 00 3F FF 00 00 00 FF <DATA ERROR
348 00 00 00 00
1F5 03 03 00 04
34A 00 00 00 00
0C9 00 00 00 27 00 40 00
191 06 43 06 43 05 C6 00
0F1 28 7D 00 00
1E1 40 C0 00 <DATA ERROR
0C1 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
0C5 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
184 00
1C9 0F FF 30 01 03 FF 3F
1CD 80 00 0F FE 7F <DATA ERROR
1E5 26 FF 05 A0 00 00 FA 00
1E9 00 01 00 04 A0 00 00 00
0F9 01 E9
199 CF FF 0F FF EF FE 00 FF <DATA ERROR
1CB 00 00 00
0F1 34 7D 00 00 <DATA ERROR
0C9 00 00 00 2A 00 40 00
191 06 43 06 43 05 C6 00
1A1 00 10 40
1C1 02 67 02
0C1 10 00 00 00 10 00 00 00
0C5 10 00 00 00 10 00 00 00 <DATA ERROR
1E5 26 FF 05 C0 00 00 F9 00

 

This may be a little off topic but I am doing a 2005 L33 swap into a 1958 Oldsmobile, I would like to add a HUD display but cant seem to find any that will work with the j1850 protocol, the original instrument cluster only have a speedo and that I have taken care of with a cable-x box. Suggestions anyone?

 

Is there any updates on your work Pete?

Thanks.

 

Rolf, Check the late 90's early 00's Pontiac Grand prix. I had grabbed one for a previous project, but didn't end up using it. It seemed to run on J1850. The problem might come down to the PCM using J1850 VPW vs. J1850, if there's a difference. Maybe Pete can clarify?


Jay

 

Thanks, I was thinking of something like the ones they are selling on ebay, you know the ones that can show engine parameters, speed etc