Swaps just got way easier...Holley Terminator X
09-29-2019, 03:11 AM
#441
Teching In
Wealth of information here...Thanks all. Really thinking about this set up.
Having issues with my LS1/4L60E... Can't get my IAC, and TPS working well at all after installing a 90mm intake102mmTB.
I'm thinking it's somewhere in my harness or ECM. (SDtune)
Going back to my tuners Thursday but if he can't get it worked out I'm pulling the trigger on the Term X Max.
Having issues with my LS1/4L60E... Can't get my IAC, and TPS working well at all after installing a 90mm intake102mmTB.
I'm thinking it's somewhere in my harness or ECM. (SDtune)
Going back to my tuners Thursday but if he can't get it worked out I'm pulling the trigger on the Term X Max.
09-30-2019, 11:03 AM
#443
Launching!
The vacuum tubing runs to a built-in 1-bar MAP sensor in the ECU. All of the standard Holley harnesses have provisions for the standard GM-style MAP sensors, and you can use one of those instead. I'm using a 2-bar MAP on mine.
Based on the fact that Holley just now released a "universal" version of the Terminator X/Max, it seems like they were trying to design something that could be easily swapped into applications that did not have MAP sensors in the first place (Fords?).
Based on the fact that Holley just now released a "universal" version of the Terminator X/Max, it seems like they were trying to design something that could be easily swapped into applications that did not have MAP sensors in the first place (Fords?).
10-07-2019, 09:28 AM
#445
Launching!
For those of you using this system, FYI: Holley just updated the software and firmware. I haven't tried the new version yet, but probably will soon.
https://www.holley.com/support/resou...Fuel_Injection
Highlights: Looks like they fixed the bug I reported about being able to scale the timing modifier tables in ways the hardware just...ignores. Also looks like they have added support for a bunch of components needed to use the X/Max as "universal" EFI systems--support for four and six cylinder engines, different ignition, cam, and crank sensor types.
From https://documents.holley.com/techlib...evisionlog.pdf:
edit: I find this rather interesting because it should also allow me to use this ECU family with non-LS applications. Most notably, the support for 36 - 1 trigger wheels should make it feasible to run a couple of Ford applications.
https://www.holley.com/support/resou...Fuel_Injection
Highlights: Looks like they fixed the bug I reported about being able to scale the timing modifier tables in ways the hardware just...ignores. Also looks like they have added support for a bunch of components needed to use the X/Max as "universal" EFI systems--support for four and six cylinder engines, different ignition, cam, and crank sensor types.
From https://documents.holley.com/techlib...evisionlog.pdf:
HANDHELD FIRMWARE: tslcd35st_terx_01_06_0440.fwu – Wizard Support for Universal MPFI
Added additional system types and functionality to the wizard for Universal MPFI
Added Ignition Types: CD Box, Coil (-), Ford TFI, GM HEI, Holley Dual Sync, Magnetic, Sniper Hyperspark Distributors
Added additional Map Sensor Selections:
TERMINATOR X ECU FIRMWARE: SNEFI_01000101.eep – Phase 2 Terminator X ECU Firmware, Universal MPFI support
Bug Fix – Timing Modifiers based on CTS and MAT allows for X axis scale adjustment
TERMINATOR X PC SOFTWARE: VERISON 1.0 BUILD: 102 –Terminator X PC Software: Phase 2 Terminator X ECU Firmware
Various Calibrations added to the “Base Cals” folder
Opens up parameters to support Universal MPFI ECU Firmware
Added Ignition Types: CD Box, Coil (-), Ford TFI, GM HEI, Holley Dual Sync, Magnetic, Sniper Hyperspark Distributors,
Added 4 Cylinder & 6 Cylinder Support
Added Support for High Flow Boost Control Solenoids (557-201)
Added Support for 1 Channel Can EGT (554-184C) and 8 Channel Can EGT (554-186)
Bug Fix – User now allowed to edit top scaling cell of Y axis in fuel table to match MAP sensor
Added additional system types and functionality to the wizard for Universal MPFI
Added Ignition Types: CD Box, Coil (-), Ford TFI, GM HEI, Holley Dual Sync, Magnetic, Sniper Hyperspark Distributors
Added additional Map Sensor Selections:
- N/A & Nitrous: 1 Bar (538-24), 1 Bar SS (554-133)
- Turbo & Supercharged: 2Bar(538-13), 3Bar(554-107), 3.5Bar SS (554-134), 5Bar SS (554-108)
TERMINATOR X ECU FIRMWARE: SNEFI_01000101.eep – Phase 2 Terminator X ECU Firmware, Universal MPFI support
Bug Fix – Timing Modifiers based on CTS and MAT allows for X axis scale adjustment
TERMINATOR X PC SOFTWARE: VERISON 1.0 BUILD: 102 –Terminator X PC Software: Phase 2 Terminator X ECU Firmware
Various Calibrations added to the “Base Cals” folder
Opens up parameters to support Universal MPFI ECU Firmware
Added Ignition Types: CD Box, Coil (-), Ford TFI, GM HEI, Holley Dual Sync, Magnetic, Sniper Hyperspark Distributors,
- Custom Crank Options include: 1X, 36-1 58x & 60-2
- Custom Cam Options include: 1X, 4X LS
Added 4 Cylinder & 6 Cylinder Support
Added Support for High Flow Boost Control Solenoids (557-201)
Added Support for 1 Channel Can EGT (554-184C) and 8 Channel Can EGT (554-186)
Bug Fix – User now allowed to edit top scaling cell of Y axis in fuel table to match MAP sensor
Last edited by lemming104; 10-07-2019 at 09:41 AM.
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Long Beach GTO (10-07-2019)
10-08-2019, 09:01 AM
#447
Launching!
I had a miserable time flashing the update onto my setup. It just did not want to accept the new firmware until I unplugged my 7" digital dash and connected the CAN-to-USB cable directly (instead of daisy-chaining it through the dash).
Seems to run fine after the update.
Seems to run fine after the update.
10-10-2019, 09:36 AM
#448
I had a miserable time flashing the update onto my setup. It just did not want to accept the new firmware until I unplugged my 7" digital dash and connected the CAN-to-USB cable directly (instead of daisy-chaining it through the dash).
Seems to run fine after the update.
Seems to run fine after the update.
We use the SD card for updates, was told it was more stable but cant confirm that information.
10-10-2019, 09:53 AM
#449
Launching!
The CAN-to-USB cable worked well enough when it was the only device in the chain. When I had it daisy-chained through the 7" dash, it was able to set the ECU offline, but wasn't able to update it. That was exciting.
10-26-2019, 02:50 PM
#450
I have been playing with the software for a couple days now trying to mimic my car's current tune and have a few questions.
How do I have the fans turn off at speed? (And or, in theory, a big ole SSR running both fans in parallel could therefore only take up one PWM output?)
Big question is how different is the universal setup compared to the LSX setup?
How do I have the fans turn off at speed? (And or, in theory, a big ole SSR running both fans in parallel could therefore only take up one PWM output?)
Big question is how different is the universal setup compared to the LSX setup?
10-28-2019, 09:57 AM
#451
Launching!
The built-in fan control logic only turns the fans on or off by temperature. If you want to include speed, you can disable that logic, and then create a custom output for your fan(s). Custom outputs can be controlled by a combination of variables, so you can do a combination of temperature and vehicle speed if that's what you want. You can also build PWM outputs.
The ECUs for the universal and LSX setups should be the same. The differences should all pertain to the included wiring harnesses. LSX kits will contain either a 24x or 58x-style LS wiring harness with connectors for the various stock sensors and ignition coils and a sub-harness for fuel injectors (style of fuel injector depends on what kit you select). There are separate harnesses for trans control and DBW that may also be included depending on which kit you select. If you are able to order an LSX kit that matches the equipment installed in your car, it is basically plug-and-play. It looks like the universal kits come with the 558-104 main harness, which, among other things, does not have the LS-style coil plugs--seems like it has a big 10-pin connector for whatever ignition system you are using.
The ECUs for the universal and LSX setups should be the same. The differences should all pertain to the included wiring harnesses. LSX kits will contain either a 24x or 58x-style LS wiring harness with connectors for the various stock sensors and ignition coils and a sub-harness for fuel injectors (style of fuel injector depends on what kit you select). There are separate harnesses for trans control and DBW that may also be included depending on which kit you select. If you are able to order an LSX kit that matches the equipment installed in your car, it is basically plug-and-play. It looks like the universal kits come with the 558-104 main harness, which, among other things, does not have the LS-style coil plugs--seems like it has a big 10-pin connector for whatever ignition system you are using.
Last edited by lemming104; 10-28-2019 at 01:27 PM.
10-29-2019, 08:51 AM
#453
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Considering this for my swap Okay so I've read all of this and I now have some questions regarding swapping a ls3 into my 2002 ws6 6 speed.
1. Can I use the 58x kit for doing this swap?
2. Do I need the ls3 wiring harness that came with the engine?
3. How do I go about making my factory gauges work?
4. Staying with drive by cable(unless dbw isnt overly complicated) so how does that all work?
Trying to make a nice clean swap and plan on running nitrous in the future so this seemed like a great option to invest in. And it is correct that a 58x is more accurate than a 24x correct?
1. Can I use the 58x kit for doing this swap?
2. Do I need the ls3 wiring harness that came with the engine?
3. How do I go about making my factory gauges work?
4. Staying with drive by cable(unless dbw isnt overly complicated) so how does that all work?
Trying to make a nice clean swap and plan on running nitrous in the future so this seemed like a great option to invest in. And it is correct that a 58x is more accurate than a 24x correct?
10-29-2019, 10:22 AM
#454
Okay so I've read all of this and I now have some questions regarding swapping a ls3 into my 2002 ws6 6 speed.
1. Can I use the 58x kit for doing this swap?
You buy the kit that matches your engine
2. Do I need the ls3 wiring harness that came with the engine?
The kit comes with the harness to fit your engine, You shouldn't need anything from the old harness, Make sure you are buying the harness that fits your intended combination
3. How do I go about making my factory gauges work?
It's very complicated and beyond what most people are willing to go through to get them to work. Rather than typing it all out here is a link to a post wth the answers to that very question Holley Forum: Anyone successfully tie into a stock cluster?
4. Staying with drive by cable(unless dbw isnt overly complicated) so how does that all work?
They sell kits that are 58x and DBW or cable, You'll need to buy a compatible DBW pedal and mount it and run the provided harness to it (It's easy to do) I think DBW is a cleaner looking install, I have ran both and prefer DBW but both work well so it's more of a personal preference
Trying to make a nice clean swap and plan on running nitrous in the future so this seemed like a great option to invest in. And it is correct that a 58x is more accurate than a 24x correct?
Correct but either will work pretty much the same, The 24x is more than accurate enough for what we use the engine for.
1. Can I use the 58x kit for doing this swap?
You buy the kit that matches your engine
2. Do I need the ls3 wiring harness that came with the engine?
The kit comes with the harness to fit your engine, You shouldn't need anything from the old harness, Make sure you are buying the harness that fits your intended combination
3. How do I go about making my factory gauges work?
It's very complicated and beyond what most people are willing to go through to get them to work. Rather than typing it all out here is a link to a post wth the answers to that very question Holley Forum: Anyone successfully tie into a stock cluster?
4. Staying with drive by cable(unless dbw isnt overly complicated) so how does that all work?
They sell kits that are 58x and DBW or cable, You'll need to buy a compatible DBW pedal and mount it and run the provided harness to it (It's easy to do) I think DBW is a cleaner looking install, I have ran both and prefer DBW but both work well so it's more of a personal preference
Trying to make a nice clean swap and plan on running nitrous in the future so this seemed like a great option to invest in. And it is correct that a 58x is more accurate than a 24x correct?
Correct but either will work pretty much the same, The 24x is more than accurate enough for what we use the engine for.
Last edited by LLLosingit; 10-29-2019 at 10:28 AM.
10-29-2019, 10:39 AM
#455
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10-29-2019, 10:43 AM
#456
TECH Senior Member
Most of the features you speak of are run by the BCM, which feeds off the ECM for those things. Holley's system is focused on the engine/drivetrain only. Anything outside of that would have to work with whichever outputs the Holley system has, and adapting to them.
10-29-2019, 11:07 AM
#457
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Damn so I'll have to do some major homework on this then. If I want to run the holley x system and retain factory style gauges. Not 100% on switching all of that over to a digital screen.
10-29-2019, 03:34 PM
#458
On my S10 the only thing I lost other than the dash display is cruise control. The BCM controls the stereo/Dome lights /Alarm/Remote Locks/ Power windows and other items.
The build I'm working on now won't have a single button or switch on the dash, Everything will be controlled by the Holley 7" dash and HP ECU.
10-29-2019, 03:38 PM
#459
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For most people lack of cruise control is a deal killer, I run the Holley Dash and prefer it over the stock gauges, I can do everything from the dash and it's customizable and has virtual toggle switches, It can display anything the Holley ecu controls/monitors and you can set up multiple screens you can switch between easily.
On my S10 the only thing I lost other than the dash display is cruise control. The BCM controls the stereo/Dome lights /Alarm/Remote Locks/ Power windows and other items.
The build I'm working on now won't have a single button or switch on the dash, Everything will be controlled by the Holley 7" dash and HP ECU.
On my S10 the only thing I lost other than the dash display is cruise control. The BCM controls the stereo/Dome lights /Alarm/Remote Locks/ Power windows and other items.
The build I'm working on now won't have a single button or switch on the dash, Everything will be controlled by the Holley 7" dash and HP ECU.
10-29-2019, 03:39 PM
#460
It's not that simple, His stock dash from what I understand is connected via CAN from the ECU, The Holley ECU also has CAN but they are different, The only way to make it work is to piggyback the Holley and stock ECU, You'll have to split some signals and figure out workarounds for others depending on the application.