Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

Anyone see the sloppy mechanics video yesterday on this terminator x? he goes through a few functions.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

APillow

iTrader: (3)

I think you have to step up to the Max for that. Also 4 bolt DBC TBs are readily available. But you are correct, depending on what your setup needs to be DBC vs DBW.

I know that came out harsher than intended, but you and I both know there is a difference between the shadetree DIY guy on a budget vs the showcar guy putting 10k of hidden wires and chrome under the hood.

It seems like E85 would be supported, but in reading the manual for the Max I could not find the connector to support it or any mention of a Fuel Composition Sensor...? Did I miss a connector in the instructions?

Don't be so fast to nuthug Holley on that either! I have a bad out of the box MSD 6010 harness (well documented in the Carb forum for the bad grounding wires) if you want to talk about Holley and quality. In all fairness there is even feedback on some of the Ebay Made In USA ~$300 harnesses having some issues, although rare. Is the answer to get the full custom 500-800 custom harnesses made? IDK, but that kills the DIY shadetree budget aspect of the LS swap. That stock harness that you know worked on the engine pull starts to look really good at that price point. Even a JY pulled harness at ~$35 is worth the effort. Stock ECU offers easy two wire setup for the Fuel Composition Sensor, OBDII plug, DBC or DBW, and other options which you just need to pin out as needed. Did I also mention that the GM ECU will probably last forever... What survivabilty testing has been done on the Dominator system?

Here is the rub. A used 4.8/5.3 LS complete with cam swap and re-gasket (basic clean up) gets you ~400HP under $1000 all day long. Why am I going out of pocket OVER the cost of the engine just to get the ish wired up...? (yeah I know the burden of LS swaps IS sweating the small stuff)

Most folks here probably don't want the base $995 kit anyway and have to option up to the Max with trans control $1200-1500ish... Does it look like a value at 1500? Nope. If the price point was 500-600 then it would be a hands down winner and no one in their right mind would rework a harness.

Basic of the basic breakdown:
- Stock LM7* DBC
- 0411 ECU Ebay ~$75
- ECU unlock ~$80
- New Ebay harness ~$325 (vs rework old harness est 2 days time and ~$100-150 in parts)
- Two wire add for FCS/E85
*Cam swap and you will need a custom tune and the cost varies.

IMO given the alternatives, the GM setup is still the price and reliability leader.

cypris09

iTrader: (1)

Dang sounds pretty promising then. Guess we will see how hacked up my harness is and if I can read correctly it does boost control and has boost safety as well.

slocaddy

I think this is a smart setup period I share all the pros that everyone has posted, so no need to repeat.
I just about have all my parts together for the jeep, and had been coming to terms with redoing another factory harness/pcm for it...... I am not ''good'' with the harness stuff, but with the help of some of you guys i could get through it again lol...... For now it will be a cammed 4.8 and 5 speed, so this term-x should work out beautifully for me. kinda makes me want to get the project going sooner just so i can try it out!
ill be lurking in this thread........

APillow

iTrader: (3)

New video from Matt walking through the functions. There is mention of FCS capability, but nothing is shown yet on this install.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

It has a frequency input listed and that should be all that is needed for the sensor side of it, Software wise you'd just have to set it up using the advanced tables.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

I think many of the guys nit picking this setup are missing the point of it. It's designed to be a simple easy to use plug and play setup, Not to compete with DIY people who are trying to save a few dollars here and there.
No laptop needed, No software to learn, No greasy crusty old wiring harness to cut up and reconfigure. These kits are so easy to use that people with basic skills can install it follow the on screen instructions and have the engine tuned without really having to know how to tune and they do a pretty damn good job of it.

user 4737373

It seems to me that users having different reasons for using one system over another is logical and to be expected. At the stage I'm at in life, my time is worth far more to me than it was 20 years ago and so I'm wiling to spend money up-front to free up as much of it as possible. Making things easier will also speed up the process and reduce the amount of time I need to invest to complete a task or project. For non-hobby related life expenses, there's a big difference to me between $1,000 and $1,500; for my hobbies that bring me pleasure it's a drop in the bucket.

G Atsma

To me it's about peace of mind.
A junkyard harness, even after being picked thru and thinned out, might still have a hidden broken wire or more. Finding those can be a nightmare for a person intimidated by wiring in general.
Then there is tuning out the various non-essential functions from the ECM, AND tuning it to the actual desired configuration tune-wise. If you don't have HPT or EFILive or access to either, you're dead in the water.
This new stuff will solve a lot of hassles.

APillow

iTrader: (3)

Very true guys. Time = Money vs tinkering to save a nickle. Pure plug and play both FITech and Term X offer solid solutions. IF you only had a weekend to perform a swap then these are hard to beat.

Here is a new video posted that walks through the harness, what in the box, and a setup overview. Note the built in MAP sensor connector which is nice. Also USB connection for laptop programming options.

pdxmotorhead

So just playing devils advocate... Lets re-look at this,,,, just from my locality...
Basic of the basic breakdown:
- Stock LM7* DBC - This can be small or large, they are not easy to find around here lately in a yard.
- 0411 ECU Ebay ~$75 (And we know its not bricked or fried or just broken and its how old)
- ECU unlock ~$80 + Remove VATS & retune because you don't have the EXACT combo of engine and trans +$350
- New Ebay harness ~$325 (vs rework old harness est 2 days time and ~$100-150 in parts) Yep give or take
- Two wire add for FCS/E85 - - $100 extra either to the harness guy or your tuner source.. If you can't do it yourself...
*Cam swap and you will need a custom tune and the cost varies. Yep
- If I actually want to fiddle or tune the result $1000+ for HP tuners and tokens.. <<< This is the differentiator

APillow

iTrader: (3)

That is the one huge "gotcha" on stock ECU vs FITech/Term X. If you switch from the stock cam vs ECU for a custom tune that adds cost and time. But that being said plenty of folks are running stock truck cams on swaps, so it really depends.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

I hear you, It drive me crazy when my monthly bills go up or when I have buy a $20 set of wiper blades but when the Pro Dash came out I just couldn't resist and had to have it. My wife/family/friends think I'm absolutely nuts for spending $1500 on a screen but when I point out what they spend money on like $1,200 for a phone or point to my wife's rings that cost quite a bit more then they shut up lol.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Used to be people were happy when more options came to the market. Other platforms would kill for an option like this. As motorheadmike said, he was a month into modifying and cleaning up the harness. Time does matter. Same thing for people who spend thousands of hours tweaking a bolt on setup. Others would rather throw a cam or FI on it and make the same or more power and spend their time doing other things. Just different options for different people.

APillow

iTrader: (3)

Agree overall, I'll break it down with my real world numbers so it isn't a pipe dream of internet lies. LOL But you are spot on that location plays a part in the costs.

5.3 LM7s all from local CL:
- $300
- $500
- $200 ($400 for a pair see below as one good one bad)
- $200 (cracked rod which cracked the case - used for donor parts as it was otherwise complete w harness intake etc. Dirty POS internals anyway and clearly neglected.)

0411 ECUs:
- 2 have been Inc w motor
- 1 Ebay IIRC $75 shipped through a dismantler

Pick-A-Part engine harnesses are ~$35. (Labor and time)

ECU programming all through LT1SWAP. IIRC $80 each you just cover shipping to him. Will be programmed to your specs for fans, trans, a/c, evap, FCS, etc. BUT he will not custom tune to cam. Also this ensures the ECU is not bricked at this step.

The FCS wires are a breeze if doing your own harness. Reuse the 2nd OX sensor wires which were eliminated from your original harness and plug into the harness for the FCS pair. Splice to the FCS harness which is sold separately (harness connector ~$15 + sensor ~$35). Round up for parts ~$50 and the programming was done on the ECU by LT1SWAP covered earlier. (note a stock LM7 cam user is done right here and can roll clean.)

THIS! I do not have a real cost here yet. I stuck to stock GM cams (LS2, LS7, LS9) in hopes of using a stock curve when needed to reduce complexity. We will see this spring for the Volvo swap and C10 (carb to FI). (insert this is my internet BS information hole as I have not completed the last step for FI.) The C10 is running off a MSD 6010 and has been for years... I also have a FITech 70050 on standby if I get super pissed at any point.

DW SD

Too bad they don't control 6L80, too. that's a great trans, at least for me. I love the extra two gears. can run more aggressive gear ratio in the rear end and still have low rpms on the freeway.
I think the trans is smart, too. Always seems to be in the right gear. If I get on it, it holds a lower gear.
Cool products for sure.
I wanted to learn HP Tuners, but didn't take that plunge. Not enough projects.

Doug

mOtOrHeAd MiKe

iTrader: (8)

Dude, I was literally just watching Denmah's latest video with the Terminator X wired up and started:

A. Salivating at the options/flexibility/ease of use;
B. Contemplating shelving my work; and
C. Doing the mental math on the actual cost of a divorce after buying this.

The value is real.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

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Mike,

This totally cracked me up!

Andrew

SKINNY69

Was literally about to start going to town on buying parts for my turbo build this week and this thing came out. I don't even see how guys are coming up with a legitimate price comparison between the X and a factory ECU car. For guys like me who are just starting a build a copy of HP tuners, a wideband and a decent boost controller are going to bring you to the same price point. The only reason in my mind, at least on a forced induction build, to utilize the factory ecu at this point is to pass emissions.