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Filled the trans, power steering, radiator, and crankcase with fluids today. I think I need to burp the radiator a little, I got 11 quarts in, I'm thinking it should take another 1-2 or so. But it's got to be close. I pumped a couple quarts of oil into a spare port on the oil cooler bypass plate, so hopefully there's a little in the pipeline.
I also tee'd in a pressure sensor with the analog gauge, so the Holley can read the fuel pressure.
So, did all that, got the Holley turned on, TPS autoset is good, and did my start up wizard.... and....... nothing. \
LOL, the starter isn't kicking over. So that will be tomorrows project. Everything electrical is complex in this car. The CCM has it's fingers in everything, including controlling the main starter enable relay. So I suspect that is the culprit, but I'll start diagnosing tomorrow, following the diagnostic flow chart in the FSM. The path goes Ignition switch -> starter enable relay -> P/N switch -> Starter... so there's not too much that can be wrong. The starter enable is mainly a security/VATS thing as far as I know.
Update: 2 steps forward and a big step back. Well, not too big, but frustrating.
I bypassed the starter enable relay, the VATS wasn't allowing it to crank. So, once that was out of the picture, it cranks over fine. With the fuel injectors unplugged, it cranked up and built oil pressure fine. Both the instrument cluster gauge and the Holley 3.5 screen are reading good oil pressure. So, then it was time to try to fire. So I did that. And it was close, it kicked and fired a few cylinders. And then actual fire, lol.
There's no exhaust on the car, and there was a small flame coming out of the drivers side collector. Which is fun as you wait for the lift to go up slowly enough to crawl under there and put it out. No harm, no foul, I smothered it with cardboard, but it got the heart beating. These cars are thin fiberglass that burns fast.
So, turns out the #3 injector stuck wide open. Grrrr.. Got the rail pulled and the plugs out, blew all the gas out of #3. I took the rail outside and put a blow gun on it, sure ensure #3 is spraying full. Looked like a couple other were dripping. I'm surprised by this. Before I put the injectors in last year, I flow checked them with a 9 volt battery, each of the 8 opened and flowed and closed fine. I don't think there should have been debris in the line. The filter is brand new, then everything from that point forward are new lines I built and the new rail. Each of those was flushed with cleaner and blown out with air several times before installing. Curious.
Anyway, I don't feel like dealing with these, I have new injectors coming tomorrow. Before I reassemble, I'll clean and blow out the rail again. I syphoned out the gas tank and will refill (it was Shell 93 in there, looked and smelled perfect, but it was 3 years old). Sock and filter are new. Since the supply line is also off the fuel rail, I'll put that in a bottle and turn on the fuel pump and flush that line again.
Also as a precaution, I drained the crankcase and put in new oil.
So, lol, that was interesting. Other than that issue, everything is looking good. Lots of warning lights because the ASR (traction control) is removed. But all the electronics are otherwise working, nothing was mis-wired. No leaks from any of the fluid systems. When I pulled the rail, I pulled the hose off the steam vents and got some air out of those, and then steady water. So I can probably get that last quart into the cooling system.
Hopefully I'll have the injectors back in by mid week. I'll add fuel pressure to the 3.5 screen to make sure it's holding and not bleeding down. Also going to grab a bottle of Argon and try to teach myself how to TIG again... Once the exhaust is done, it's just a few small tidy-up items and it should be ready for the road.
New injectors are in, tank drained and refilled. Pressure is holding in the rail after key off, so nothing is leaking.
I did try to fire it again, and again, getting fireballs out both headers. I believe the throttle blade is fully closed and its not getting air. I'll adjust it watching the TPS value and get it to 2-3%. But I'm going to fab up the exhaust before anymore messing with engine. Fiberglass burns too easily, lol.
Started on the exhaust. No one makes any LS swap exhaust, and there are very few 3" exhausts in general, and all are $$$$. So I'm fabbing my own. I've done lots of aluminized MIG welded exhausts over the years but this is stainless, so I bought a TIG welder, so trying to teach myself there. I did have a few lessons. In 1999, lol. But doing ok. I do a lot of soldering, both plumbing, and fine pitch surface mount electronics. The motion is pretty much the same, closely adding heat with one hand and filler with the other. Using solar flux on the inside, as I don't have the parts right now to do a proper back purge. Seems ok, no sugaring.
Waiting on a couple 90's to arrive, to make the turn behind the rear diff. And I need to take a week to put a new 10" touchscreen head unit into my 72 Jimmy, as it's nice enough weather to start driving that.
I'm back... work schedule kills me sometimes, wasn't able to get to the barn in a couple weeks. I finished up the exhaust this weekend. MY welds won't win any awards, that's for sure. But honestly went better than I thought it would. They are just not real straight and I can't get a good position at my welding table for getting around the pipes, so its a lot of starts and stops. So that's all installed and hung. Tips came out pretty level and symmetrical, and I have a little adjustment if needed.
So, with that in place, including the O2 sensor, I got it to start. At first it didn't want to go, and I not getting fire. I believe the throttle blade was all the way closed and not bypassing enough air. So I adjusted the screw until I got 3% on the TPS, and did an TPS reset/auto learn. That got it started, but it won't idle without my foot on the gas, so I suspect it probably needs a little more adjustment on the screw. But I'll go through the whole tune on my laptop before progressing. I did verify fire on all 8 cylinders, each primary was warm after running for 10 seconds, and there didn't seem to be any major variations between them.
Hopefully a couple more weeks and I'll get it on the road
I'm back... work schedule kills me sometimes, wasn't able to get to the barn in a couple weeks. I finished up the exhaust this weekend. MY welds won't win any awards, that's for sure. But honestly went better than I thought it would. They are just not real straight and I can't get a good position at my welding table for getting around the pipes, so its a lot of starts and stops. So that's all installed and hung. Tips came out pretty level and symmetrical, and I have a little adjustment if needed.
So, with that in place, including the O2 sensor, I got it to start. At first it didn't want to go, and I not getting fire. I believe the throttle blade was all the way closed and not bypassing enough air. So I adjusted the screw until I got 3% on the TPS, and did an TPS reset/auto learn. That got it started, but it won't idle without my foot on the gas, so I suspect it probably needs a little more adjustment on the screw. But I'll go through the whole tune on my laptop before progressing. I did verify fire on all 8 cylinders, each primary was warm after running for 10 seconds, and there didn't seem to be any major variations between them.
Hopefully a couple more weeks and I'll get it on the road
The exhaust looks great! Let me know if I can help with the tuning. I'll have you sorted out in no time.
it looks like you have a warr throttle body on there. If it's anything like the gplus throttle body i have, the IAC ports are garbage. mine didn't want to idle well either until i ported the iac ports as much as possible. by the end i was able to leave the TB almost closed and get a decent idle.
it looks like you have a warr throttle body on there. If it's anything like the gplus throttle body i have, the IAC ports are garbage. mine didn't want to idle well either until i ported the iac ports as much as possible. by the end i was able to leave the TB almost closed and get a decent idle.
Yes, that is a Warr. I have one of their 92mm TBs on the LQ4 in my GMC, and I have no issues with that one, other than it whistles loudly at high airflow. But it idles well.
This one is a 102mm. We'll see how the idle process goes. I did spend about 30 minutes with files and a dremel to port the IAC passages on this one before I assembled it all.
Exhaust looks great and congrats on getting the car up and running. Get the car up to 160* and the learning will kick in to get you idling much better.
Exhaust looks great and congrats on getting the car up and running. Get the car up to 160* and the learning will kick in to get you idling much better.
I got a chance to get back to the barn today. I built myself a decent safe base tune, loaded it up, and.... No start. So I swapped back to the original file, and it starts and ran rough but didn't idle. So. I noticed I was getting a red light on LED6, which is crank sensor. Most of the time is was ok, blinking green blue, but when it would fire. It would go to red. After some research, I found that this may not be the crank but the cam sensor. The red can be because the two aren't in sync.
So, I started there, because I had to extend the wires and change the connector to match my pigtail on the LS2 front cover (I now know I could have ditched the pigtail and run the Holley connector into the sensor directly. But too late now, lol). So I pulled out the plug and checked proper continuity and solid crimps in the connectors on both ends. Everything looked good. So I went back to the diagram I used to verify the pinout and that looked ok. Well. The I doubted that diagram. And found pictures of OE wiring, and sure enough, A and C were swapped in the drawing I used. So I swapped those and it fired right up. 4 green LEDs and 4 blanks when running. Which I believe is correct.
Got it to idle, fairly high around 1200, but I just set it there for the initial starts. Ran it up to 160 degrees,no problems. Motor is gonna be rowdy! Very different than my cammed LQ4.
Called it a day, will probably run one more heat cycle and dump the oil. Then should be able to top off the trans and start buttoning up the wiring and see if it will drive 😁
I wired up the alternator and speedometer and cleaned up some other wiring. Put various trim pieces back in the engine bay. Put my base tune back into that I made before I found the issue with the cam sensor wires. It started really fast with 20* of ideal timing, compared to the 18 that were in the auto generated tune. Let it idle up to temperature, all seems good there. I will probably drain the oil and change the filter now that it has a good heat cycle in it.
The Holley is generating a 4k ppm signal. This is a low side output, so I have this output tied to 12 volts via a 1k resistor. I am picking up the 12v from the power tap in the Holley harness. I ran the trans through the gears and they all work fine. The speedometer was responding she. I left the tires speed up. So it seems good there and that should mean my vss is also picking up signal correctly.
** Edit: See below for how I configured the alternator wiring. It's also using a pull-up resistor, this time to 5 volts on the power tap. **
So all my factory dashboard gauges are working except engine oil temp, because I still need to wire it. But it will work fine.
I also wired my alternator. I have the stock TBSS alternator on there which is a 2 pin pwm control. Ihere in have the Holley output configured as a low side 128 hz pwm. The duty cycle controller the alternator charge voltage. It's kinda cool because you can have voltage bump up a little if you want and high rpm, high map, to give a little extra juice to the fuel pump.
So, all looking good. Now to start buttoning up the little things
Looking good man!! Congrats on the successful fire up. I had that same thing happen to me when I converted to a front cam sensor on my LS1. Flipped the wires and it was good.
You'll need to figure out a way to convert the PWM- to a PWM+ signal for the alternator to work right. There is a discussion on that here in the conversions/hybrids section. I don't think anyone successfully has gotten it to work with Holley, but not for trying though. I just don't think anyone has attempted it. I was going to, but ended up having to get a different alternator that self excites.
I also wired my alternator. I have the stock TBSS alternator on there which is a 2 pin pwm control. Ihere in have the Holley output configured as a low side 128 hz pwm. The duty cycle controller the alternator charge voltage. It's kinda cool because you can have voltage bump up a little if you want and high rpm, high map, to give a little extra juice to the fuel pump.
So you got the adjustable alternator voltage working with a PWM- all by itself?
Originally Posted by ryeguy2006a
You'll need to figure out a way to convert the PWM- to a PWM+ signal for the alternator to work right. There is a discussion on that here in the conversions/hybrids section. I don't think anyone successfully has gotten it to work with Holley, but not for trying though. I just don't think anyone has attempted it. I was going to, but ended up having to get a different alternator that self excites.
Looking good man!! Congrats on the successful fire up. I had that same thing happen to me when I converted to a front cam sensor on my LS1. Flipped the wires and it was good.
You'll need to figure out a way to convert the PWM- to a PWM+ signal for the alternator to work right. There is a discussion on that here in the conversions/hybrids section. I don't think anyone successfully has gotten it to work with Holley, but not for trying though. I just don't think anyone has attempted it. I was going to, but ended up having to get a different alternator that self excites.
Oh, thats already done and super easy.
Holley will ground it. So you need a 0-5 volt signal. This is just a resistor.
Wire from 5 volts to a 1k resistor. (Conveniently, there is 5 volts at the power tap for such a purpose)
Other side of the resistor is the PWM wire to the alternator AND connect the Holley PWM- output wire here.
When the Holley goes low, it grounds the pin, and the voltage is 0 on the wire leading to the alternator
When the Holley releases the line (for the high part of the pwm), Holley is high impedance, so the line is pulled to 5 volts via the 1k resistor.
Its running good, the only thing you have to remember is the duty cycle is flipped. So, in this case, I wanted ~14.2 volts output, which should be 70% duty cycle. So I tell the Holley to make 30% duty cycle (this is the low portion). And I see that the voltage reading on my handheld is 14.1v, so seems correct. Without any PWM, I was reading 13.6 volts.
I do have the tabled configured to go to 25% duty cycle (75% to the alternator) above certain MAP readings, to add a couple tenths of voltage to the system.
Holley is a PWM-. It will ground the output pin for the portion of the duty cycle you tell it to. The rest of the waveform, it opens up the transistor, and this line is effectively an open wire. So it will float. So we tie it to 5 volts with the 1k resistor. When the holley output floats, this resistor will pull the line up to 5 volts, completing our waveform.
In this case, when the holley is grounding, we have 5 volts across the resistor, so 5 milliamps are flowing. This is 25 milliwatts, so a pretty small amount of power dissipated, a typical quarter watt resistor is plenty here.
Trying to get the last little things wrapped up. Life as always is busy and new job responsibilities are taking most of my free time. But getting close. I'm hoping to get it on the road in 1-2 weeks.
I got the air intake put back together. Originally, I was going to try to make an LS3 C6 intake work, I have one in the shop. But it was hitting the hood in 2 places, and would have needed to cut the fan shroud to sink it any lower. Its always a fight for space in this car, its just very low and compact. Based on the research I've done, the late C4 intake used on the LT1/LT4/LT5s doesn't really seem to be a restriction, so I decided to just make that work. To my surprise, I only needed to trim about 3/4 off the small end of the intake boot, and it fit perfect and slides over my 102mm throttle body. So that's all in place
Next up was cleaning up wiring and mounting the ECU. When I stripped all the old engine out, I make a pile of all the brackets and wires and such that I pull out. So I found a bracket that used to hold a vacuum actuator for cruise control. It used to sit underneath the LT1 ECU. I'm mounting the Terminator X Max in this same area, above the battery, in the rear left of the engine compartment. So, first I cut this bracket a little, and welded on little pieces of other brackets that had holes in the right place. Then I added a doglegged piece on the side to hold relays. The ECU mounting pads are angled downwards at 30 degrees, this keeps the connectors pointed downward per Holley's instructions. In the auto industry, we do this type of mounting commonly, the purpose is any water that ends up on the harness will run away from the connector pins, rather than collect inside.
I unwrapped the Holley harness for the last few feet. They have a lot of tape, and the relays are sticking out at right angles on short wires. So, I extended just a couple wires strategically on the relays. Let me get them all put into a nicer common place.
Here is the bracket in place. It only uses one of the 2 original bolts, but its solid. (The other one doesn't line up, because I rotated the bracket a little bit. )
Here is the ECU in place:
Side view: Relays and fuses are all mounted here. There's about 1/2" clearance along the side between the relays and the hood.
To connect to the battery, I replaced the side post bolts to these double ended studs. So the OEM battery cables are bolted in with these, and then all my Holley wires join together in large ring terminals that go onto the stud (under that silver nut).
So, my goal has been to have it out of the garage by memorial day. And right on time, it came together and I got it on the road. After I cleaned up the wiring, I connected up the battery and heard a relay going nuts. I had taken this relay from an old painless wiring kit, since it was a matching waterproof Hella relay to those that come on the Holley harness. I beat myself up a bit, when I found that I had this relay wired incorrectly... Well, it turns out the painless relay was mis-wired from the factory. When I put it in, I went off the wire sizes/colors, which are also labelled on the wire jackets... And didn't notice two wires were in the wrong sockets. Anyway, fixed that up, and its all working fine.
I put in a new air filter and cut out the lid of the assembly, to allow in more air. Works find, although its drawing underhood air, so IATS were around 115 degrees. So cool air ducting is in the future. Have I mentioned it's tight under the hood? lol.. Not easy to find a path for cool air. No one sells a CAI for a C4 for that reason.
Got my catch can installed, replaced a broken temp sensor, adjusted shift linkage. Drained the oil and cut open the filter, all looked perfect, not a fleck of anything in the filter. Torqued the lug nuts, and got it out of the barn. I just drove it around the block a few times, but all seemed to be working pretty well. All the holley I/O appears OK -> Speedo is working, alternator is working, and cooling fans are activating. I didn't get very fast but I can feel the 1 > 2 shift occurring. I need to tweak the throttle blade. Its idling a few rpm above command, around 900 rpm right now, but it gets to 0% IAC position. I would have gone for a longer drive, but I see some trans fluid leaking, it looks like the rear seal is probably bad (trans is new, but the tail housing is from the 1992 trans, and I forgot to change the output seal on it, although I don't think it was leaking when I brought it into the garage. Ohh well. *hopefully* I don't have to pull down the exhaust, but I'm guessing I will need to. First I need to confirm where its leaking from (small puddle of fluid under the tail section).
04-09-2021, 05:44 PM
