LS1 Power+ Germen Tech
10-11-2005, 02:29 PM
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LS1 Power+ Germen Tech This is a little media file I found on another forum.
Good stuff.
These guys have gotten a lot of flack for being $$$ with their kit, but to their credit, they are the only group to have a video of the BMW "357," running and have gone to events with it.
http://media.putfile.com/Viperattack30
And yes, thats a Viper fallowing the 4door BMW. I just giggle and the thought of a 4 door running with a Viper.
Good stuff.
These guys have gotten a lot of flack for being $$$ with their kit, but to their credit, they are the only group to have a video of the BMW "357," running and have gone to events with it.
http://media.putfile.com/Viperattack30
And yes, thats a Viper fallowing the 4door BMW. I just giggle and the thought of a 4 door running with a Viper.
10-11-2005, 03:24 PM
#3
A friend from work built one of those. I think he did all his own fab work though. It's a sweet ride.
http://www.nash8503.com/
I would love to convert my Wife's IS300 to an IS570!!!! That would be a fun car.
http://www.nash8503.com/
I would love to convert my Wife's IS300 to an IS570!!!! That would be a fun car.
10-11-2005, 03:26 PM
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My e12 is smaller than that. 3-series cars have gotten fat. My e30 looks like a toy next to a new 3-series. I heard they are doing a twin turbo in the new m3 (2006?) they'll need it to haul around all that weight.
That said I'd love to have one
BTW Nash's car was the inspiration for my project.
http://photobucket.com/albums/a358/redmistmotorsports/
That said I'd love to have one
BTW Nash's car was the inspiration for my project.http://photobucket.com/albums/a358/redmistmotorsports/
10-11-2005, 03:26 PM
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Theres a local company to me that builds very similar BMW's. Cool ish.
Edit: What am I talking about. That is the company LOL. Thats at the local drag strip (Race City) at one of the road course days.
-Matt
Edit: What am I talking about. That is the company LOL. Thats at the local drag strip (Race City) at one of the road course days.
-Matt
Last edited by ls1_chevelle; 10-11-2005 at 03:48 PM.
10-11-2005, 04:14 PM
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10-11-2005, 04:18 PM
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THe LS1 BMW conversion certainly is cool.... not as budget friendly as some of the other ones out there as the engine/header/cooling kit is $8K from one of the "kit" places out there.
I would like to see an old school BMW 2002 with wide body kit and LS1/T56 or LS1 mid mounted with G50 transaxle....
I would like to see an old school BMW 2002 with wide body kit and LS1/T56 or LS1 mid mounted with G50 transaxle....
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10-11-2005, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gnx7
THe LS1 BMW conversion certainly is cool.... not as budget friendly as some of the other ones out there as the engine/header/cooling kit is $8K from one of the "kit" places out there.
I would like to see an old school BMW 2002 with wide body kit and LS1/T56 or LS1 mid mounted with G50 transaxle....
I would like to see an old school BMW 2002 with wide body kit and LS1/T56 or LS1 mid mounted with G50 transaxle....
A shop my friends work at said. "$hit erik if you pull up with a BMW and a fully dressed Ls1, we'd hit that $hit." Ie, bascily and friendly automotive fab-shop should be able to do it for 4 grand or less.
10-11-2005, 05:39 PM
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An LSx in the middle of a '02 with a G50 would be a bit of a stretch, you would need to move the seats forward a good foot or more, or you could stretch it between the trailing edge of the doors and the rear wheel arches. The V8 '02 conversion has been done so that would be very cool with an LSx and a T56 or even the M11 (?) used in Corvettes and a shortened torque tube and driveshaft. Since the title of this thread is "LS1 Power+ Germen Tech", how about a Karmann Ghia with a LSx in front? There's more than enough room in the trunk for an engine and radiator and if you want you could set it back considerably. A couple years ago a friend of mine bought a 73 with plans to cut it on either side of the peak in the hood and widen it 3 inches each side to fit a V8 in front eith some decent foot boxes so that's an option too, just get a competent body guy and an equally competent chassis guy to build you a tubular. His plans fell through because of budget issues but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't do it. Just some ideas.
10-11-2005, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by erikerikerik
True, the kit its self is WAY over priced. Then again you're paying for the R&D that has gone in to the thing. The next kit is around 4grand. at 4 grand I could easly do that.
A shop my friends work at said. "$hit erik if you pull up with a BMW and a fully dressed Ls1, we'd hit that $hit." Ie, bascily and friendly automotive fab-shop should be able to do it for 4 grand or less.
A shop my friends work at said. "$hit erik if you pull up with a BMW and a fully dressed Ls1, we'd hit that $hit." Ie, bascily and friendly automotive fab-shop should be able to do it for 4 grand or less.
Way over priced eh, more people talking out of their asses. In fact I doubt anymore will be made because it's not cost effective at that price.
What most people, especially people posting this sort of thing on the internet, don't understand is what it really takes to build something at this level. That is up to factory BMW standards for fit and finish. This isn't a 'getto' conversion, if you have seen it, you would be completely impressed with the detail. You can actually change the spark plugs, service the engine, pull off the heads, replace all the parts needed during the life of the car. There are no compromises to the BMW, no loss of A/C or the excellent ABS system. Using a ford brake system
or risking a law suit messing with the factory steering system.There is no exhaust system dragging on the ground, even with dual 3" exhaust no part of the system is the lowest point on the car.
That video is of a 4 door BMW sedan destroying a viper(as well as 911 GT3, C6 Vettes, C5 Z06, etc) on the road course, what is that the conversion is expensive
As for the 4 grand, that wouldn't get you the wiring figured out.
10-11-2005, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LS1 Swapper
Way over priced eh, more people talking out of their asses. In fact I doubt anymore will be made because it's not cost effective at that price.
What most people, especially people posting this sort of thing on the internet, don't understand is what it really takes to build something at this level. That is up to factory BMW standards for fit and finish. This isn't a 'getto' conversion, if you have seen it, you would be completely impressed with the detail. You can actually change the spark plugs, service the engine, pull off the heads, replace all the parts needed during the life of the car. There are no compromises to the BMW, no loss of A/C or the excellent ABS system. Using a ford brake system or risking a law suit messing with the factory steering system.
There is no exhaust system dragging on the ground, even with dual 3" exhaust no part of the system is the lowest point on the car.
That video is of a 4 door BMW sedan destroying a viper(as well as 911 GT3, C6 Vettes, C5 Z06, etc) on the road course, what is that the conversion is expensive
As for the 4 grand, that wouldn't get you the wiring figured out.
What most people, especially people posting this sort of thing on the internet, don't understand is what it really takes to build something at this level. That is up to factory BMW standards for fit and finish. This isn't a 'getto' conversion, if you have seen it, you would be completely impressed with the detail. You can actually change the spark plugs, service the engine, pull off the heads, replace all the parts needed during the life of the car. There are no compromises to the BMW, no loss of A/C or the excellent ABS system. Using a ford brake system
or risking a law suit messing with the factory steering system.There is no exhaust system dragging on the ground, even with dual 3" exhaust no part of the system is the lowest point on the car.
That video is of a 4 door BMW sedan destroying a viper(as well as 911 GT3, C6 Vettes, C5 Z06, etc) on the road course, what is that the conversion is expensive
As for the 4 grand, that wouldn't get you the wiring figured out.
10-12-2005, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by LS1 Swapper
Way over priced eh, more people talking out of their asses. In fact I doubt anymore will be made because it's not cost effective at that price.
What most people, especially people posting this sort of thing on the internet, don't understand is what it really takes to build something at this level. That is up to factory BMW standards for fit and finish. This isn't a 'getto' conversion, if you have seen it, you would be completely impressed with the detail. You can actually change the spark plugs, service the engine, pull off the heads, replace all the parts needed during the life of the car. There are no compromises to the BMW, no loss of A/C or the excellent ABS system. Using a ford brake system or risking a law suit messing with the factory steering system.
There is no exhaust system dragging on the ground, even with dual 3" exhaust no part of the system is the lowest point on the car.
That video is of a 4 door BMW sedan destroying a viper(as well as 911 GT3, C6 Vettes, C5 Z06, etc) on the road course, what is that the conversion is expensive
As for the 4 grand, that wouldn't get you the wiring figured out.
What most people, especially people posting this sort of thing on the internet, don't understand is what it really takes to build something at this level. That is up to factory BMW standards for fit and finish. This isn't a 'getto' conversion, if you have seen it, you would be completely impressed with the detail. You can actually change the spark plugs, service the engine, pull off the heads, replace all the parts needed during the life of the car. There are no compromises to the BMW, no loss of A/C or the excellent ABS system. Using a ford brake system
or risking a law suit messing with the factory steering system.There is no exhaust system dragging on the ground, even with dual 3" exhaust no part of the system is the lowest point on the car.
That video is of a 4 door BMW sedan destroying a viper(as well as 911 GT3, C6 Vettes, C5 Z06, etc) on the road course, what is that the conversion is expensive
As for the 4 grand, that wouldn't get you the wiring figured out.
Why the kits are so expensive is they have done the "thinking" and put in the man hours for you. They are geared for people without a welder or the desire to use one. I live for screwing around in the garage, other people want to do other things with their time. I have nothing against these "kits" because they are great for certain people with certain requirements and limitations. But they do not necessarily result in the best conversion BECAUSE they try to keep the cars unmolested in the process. If you want to keep you car "unmolested" and "pure" then you shouldn't have done a conversion in the first place.
Last edited by redmist; 10-12-2005 at 12:00 PM.
10-12-2005, 11:56 AM
#17
"There are no compromises to the BMW"
* Do you not consider shifting the engine over to one side for better steering rack clearance a compromise..... and the design of those headers?
I'm not knocking it... but any conversion always has compromises.... bottom line.
I watched that video of the BMW on the road course vs. the Viper. Are you sure that Viper was going all out? I have multiple people who watched it comment with the same reaction.
What type of power is the BMW putting down and what is the weight?
Vipers are very very competant on road courses.... it is a fact that the majority of the ones driven by amateurs are not even pushed close to the limit of what they can do. The ability to put 305's+ up front and 335's out back on the Viper provide it with plenty of grip.
I would love to see what lap times the BMW is putting down and then compare them to other cars that same day. That would determine how successful the conversion is. Is there a list?
Also what tires were you running on.... and what about the Viper?
* Do you not consider shifting the engine over to one side for better steering rack clearance a compromise..... and the design of those headers?
I'm not knocking it... but any conversion always has compromises.... bottom line.
I watched that video of the BMW on the road course vs. the Viper. Are you sure that Viper was going all out? I have multiple people who watched it comment with the same reaction.
What type of power is the BMW putting down and what is the weight?
Vipers are very very competant on road courses.... it is a fact that the majority of the ones driven by amateurs are not even pushed close to the limit of what they can do. The ability to put 305's+ up front and 335's out back on the Viper provide it with plenty of grip.
I would love to see what lap times the BMW is putting down and then compare them to other cars that same day. That would determine how successful the conversion is. Is there a list?
Also what tires were you running on.... and what about the Viper?
Last edited by gnx7; 10-12-2005 at 12:03 PM.
10-12-2005, 02:07 PM
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1) Its Not my Car However the specs from V3auto
2) That bmw has a Wide body kit throw on it, so the tire width diffrences shouldnt come into play
3)Wieght of the bmw is 3400~ pounds standered fully loaded weight.
4) you're right, 7Grand for a kit is way to much, but thats for some one that basicly wants a drop in kit. Me? I have a whole garage that will help me with it, charging only for parts, no labor.
5) V3auto will do the wiring for a small $$$, Then again Nash Also has wiring With the kit also.
6)Do you not consider shifting the engine over to one side for better steering rack clearance a compromise..... and the design of those headers?
I'm not knocking it... but any conversion always has compromises.... bottom line.
Both Ways have been done, From shifting the engin over to make room, to pushing the engine forward a smig to make room for headers and stearing.
------------------------
www.V3auto.com
Fit and Finish: 9/10
Kit Price : 3/10 (with full options) 5/10 (with no options)
This kit being the most pricing one of the group dose score poorly on the conversion scale. However to their defence they do have apprently more then 1 working car with kits ready to go.
http://nash8503.com
Fit And Finish: 6.5/10
Kit Price : 8/10
This is not a full shop kit! And unlike the V3auto kit, it is suposibly fully bolt on, no welding! However this is the kit where the engin was slightly pushed to 1 side to make room for the steering shaft.
oOOh, polishness!
Ans also
Electrical goodness.
Fair Link 1 And Link 2
Fit and Finish : TBA/10
Kit Price : TBA/10
Fair Being stuck between the two in terms of what has been done so far.
He has hinted at a kit... Every one is hoping so. Ie, in the Nash Price rang with the V3auto polish
Yup, you might have seen these headers before! look in the sticked post.
"motor perfectly centered and level"
LSx engines are the bomb! The 383 c.i. stroker motor is making nice power throughout the rev range. The latest custom ground cam by EDC, pulls strongly through 7K RPM. With some further tuning required, the dynojet recently showed just under 450whp with a broad torque curve giving incredible flexibility on the road.
Our third conversion is underway and nearing the install stage. A fair bit of time has been spent building up a strong 346 c.i. for road course duty. This particular chassis will be a major focus of attention in the city, as it the personal track/street car of a major euro tuning business owner. Can't wait to see this car in action. Stay tuned for updates!
Our third conversion is underway and nearing the install stage. A fair bit of time has been spent building up a strong 346 c.i. for road course duty. This particular chassis will be a major focus of attention in the city, as it the personal track/street car of a major euro tuning business owner. Can't wait to see this car in action. Stay tuned for updates!
3)Wieght of the bmw is 3400~ pounds standered fully loaded weight.
4) you're right, 7Grand for a kit is way to much, but thats for some one that basicly wants a drop in kit. Me? I have a whole garage that will help me with it, charging only for parts, no labor.
5) V3auto will do the wiring for a small $$$, Then again Nash Also has wiring With the kit also.
6)Do you not consider shifting the engine over to one side for better steering rack clearance a compromise..... and the design of those headers?
I'm not knocking it... but any conversion always has compromises.... bottom line.
Both Ways have been done, From shifting the engin over to make room, to pushing the engine forward a smig to make room for headers and stearing.
------------------------
www.V3auto.com
Fit and Finish: 9/10
Kit Price : 3/10 (with full options) 5/10 (with no options)
This kit being the most pricing one of the group dose score poorly on the conversion scale. However to their defence they do have apprently more then 1 working car with kits ready to go.
http://nash8503.com
Fit And Finish: 6.5/10
Kit Price : 8/10
This is not a full shop kit! And unlike the V3auto kit, it is suposibly fully bolt on, no welding! However this is the kit where the engin was slightly pushed to 1 side to make room for the steering shaft.
oOOh, polishness!
Ans also
Electrical goodness.
Track Performance Results:
1/4 mile 11.9 @ 118 mph
Running on BFG G-Force KD 225 45 ZR-18
1/4 mile 11.9 @ 118 mph
Running on BFG G-Force KD 225 45 ZR-18
Fair Link 1 And Link 2
Fit and Finish : TBA/10
Kit Price : TBA/10
Fair Being stuck between the two in terms of what has been done so far.
He has hinted at a kit... Every one is hoping so. Ie, in the Nash Price rang with the V3auto polish
Yup, you might have seen these headers before! look in the sticked post.
"motor perfectly centered and level"
10-12-2005, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by erikerikerik
3)Wieght of the bmw is 3400~ pounds standered fully loaded weight.
Originally Posted by erikerikerik
4) you're right, 7Grand for a kit is way to much, but thats for some one that basicly wants a drop in kit. Me? I have a whole garage that will help me with it, charging only for parts, no labor.
Originally Posted by erikerikerik
5) V3auto will do the wiring for a small $$$
[/QUOTE]www.V3auto.com
Fit and Finish: 9/10
Kit Price : 3/10 (with full options) 5/10 (with no options)[/QUOTE]
Cute but meaningless (see second quote above)
Originally Posted by redmist
Well I've changed plugs twice in under 15mins (easier than stock F-bodies) and the heads once. I have a Wilwood brake system which is safer and more effective than the BMW one, a one peice driveshaft and a better rear than BMW has. I have a BMW rack and pinion versus the peice of crap steering box that BMW originally had in the car. My exhaust sytem is invisible from any perspective. The weight distribution is better as well. Including the motor(which I made from parts) and the trans I have less than $4K in the car including the price of the car itself. This is in one bay of a two car garage. So who is talking out their ***?
Why the kits are so expensive is they have done the "thinking" and put in the man hours for you. They are geared for people without a welder or the desire to use one. I live for screwing around in the garage, other people want to do other things with their time. I have nothing against these "kits" because they are great for certain people with certain requirements and limitations. But they do not necessarily result in the best conversion BECAUSE they try to keep the cars unmolested in the process. If you want to keep you car "unmolested" and "pure" then you shouldn't have done a conversion in the first place.
Why the kits are so expensive is they have done the "thinking" and put in the man hours for you. They are geared for people without a welder or the desire to use one. I live for screwing around in the garage, other people want to do other things with their time. I have nothing against these "kits" because they are great for certain people with certain requirements and limitations. But they do not necessarily result in the best conversion BECAUSE they try to keep the cars unmolested in the process. If you want to keep you car "unmolested" and "pure" then you shouldn't have done a conversion in the first place.
Keeping it pure isn't the point, keeping the nature of the original car while taking advantage of the powerful engine is the point. Many many hours were spent positioning the engine, this was not a where will it fit operation. Certain things were done to the engine to make it fit correctly in the chassis, while maintaining the correct balance to the chassis overall. These are details lost on the 'walmart' crowd and details as to why it cost so much, until a part list is released who's to know the reasons. I've been quoted many times as saying "if you don't like the price, by all means build your own or buy something else"
Originally Posted by gnx7
"There are no compromises to the BMW"
* Do you not consider shifting the engine over to one side for better steering rack clearance a compromise..... and the design of those headers?
I'm not knocking it... but any conversion always has compromises.... bottom line. ***Must be confusing conversions, especially the headers
I watched that video of the BMW on the road course vs. the Viper. Are you sure that Viper was going all out? I have multiple people who watched it comment with the same reaction. ***I wasn't driving so I have no answer, I know what your saying but the fact is this car will pull distance on a viper on the straightaway.
What type of power is the BMW putting down and what is the weight?***~450rwhp with 3100lbs certainly not a match for your RX7 but we can carry 5 people comfortably
Vipers are very very competant on road courses.... it is a fact that the majority of the ones driven by amateurs are not even pushed close to the limit of what they can do. The ability to put 305's+ up front and 335's out back on the Viper provide it with plenty of grip.
I would love to see what lap times the BMW is putting down and then compare them to other cars that same day. That would determine how successful the conversion is. Is there a list? *** no lap timing is allowed at these events for insurance reasons
Also what tires were you running on.... and what about the Viper? ***wasn't at that event no idea, most people run r-compounds, the BMW was on Corsa's
* Do you not consider shifting the engine over to one side for better steering rack clearance a compromise..... and the design of those headers?
I'm not knocking it... but any conversion always has compromises.... bottom line. ***Must be confusing conversions, especially the headers
I watched that video of the BMW on the road course vs. the Viper. Are you sure that Viper was going all out? I have multiple people who watched it comment with the same reaction. ***I wasn't driving so I have no answer, I know what your saying but the fact is this car will pull distance on a viper on the straightaway.
What type of power is the BMW putting down and what is the weight?***~450rwhp with 3100lbs certainly not a match for your RX7 but we can carry 5 people comfortably
Vipers are very very competant on road courses.... it is a fact that the majority of the ones driven by amateurs are not even pushed close to the limit of what they can do. The ability to put 305's+ up front and 335's out back on the Viper provide it with plenty of grip.
I would love to see what lap times the BMW is putting down and then compare them to other cars that same day. That would determine how successful the conversion is. Is there a list? *** no lap timing is allowed at these events for insurance reasons
Also what tires were you running on.... and what about the Viper? ***wasn't at that event no idea, most people run r-compounds, the BMW was on Corsa's
10-13-2005, 11:49 AM
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Ls1Swapper said:
I agree with everything you say, except one thing. I do talk out my *** on a regular basis.
People who haven't done it before, especially with a challenging car such as the 3-series, don't realize the man hours involved. If I added up the man hours and put a reasonable dollar value on it would be unafforable on the aftermarket. People look at the parts being sold in the kit on a "commodity basis" rather than a "value add" basis. What's more is that you are standing by your product from a liability and reputation basis. There is also a big difference between starting out with a peice of s*** and a 20 or 30k customer car.
Redmist, I've know you for alot of year elsewhere. Wasn't taking about you "talking out of your ***"
Keeping it pure isn't the point, keeping the nature of the original car while taking advantage of the powerful engine is the point. Many many hours were spent positioning the engine, this was not a where will it fit operation. Certain things were done to the engine to make it fit correctly in the chassis, while maintaining the correct balance to the chassis overall. These are details lost on the 'walmart' crowd and details as to why it cost so much, until a part list is released who's to know the reasons. I've been quoted many times as saying "if you don't like the price, by all means build your own or buy something else"
Keeping it pure isn't the point, keeping the nature of the original car while taking advantage of the powerful engine is the point. Many many hours were spent positioning the engine, this was not a where will it fit operation. Certain things were done to the engine to make it fit correctly in the chassis, while maintaining the correct balance to the chassis overall. These are details lost on the 'walmart' crowd and details as to why it cost so much, until a part list is released who's to know the reasons. I've been quoted many times as saying "if you don't like the price, by all means build your own or buy something else"
People who haven't done it before, especially with a challenging car such as the 3-series, don't realize the man hours involved. If I added up the man hours and put a reasonable dollar value on it would be unafforable on the aftermarket. People look at the parts being sold in the kit on a "commodity basis" rather than a "value add" basis. What's more is that you are standing by your product from a liability and reputation basis. There is also a big difference between starting out with a peice of s*** and a 20 or 30k customer car.