Welding Oil Pan
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From: SoCal
Welding Oil Pan How difficult is it to weld the aluminum oil pan? I'm thinking of shortening a truck pan to the LS1 depth by sectioning out 3". Seems I read somewhere that someone tried un-successfully. BTW, I do have a TIG. Any reccomendations for the filler rod?
Thanks,
Andy1
Thanks,
Andy1
I hear heat is a problem... don't want to warp the mounting surface that mates up to the block.
I'm very curious to see how you progress... what you're doing might be my only realistic option other than the S&P pan. Are you worried about losing capacity?
I'm very curious to see how you progress... what you're doing might be my only realistic option other than the S&P pan. Are you worried about losing capacity?
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From: Michigan, auburn HIlls
keep the oil pan bolted to a junk block when you weld it. I know it can be done. There is a LS-1 installation manual the GM published a few years ago. They mention somthing about it it there. I will see if i can find it.
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From: SoCal
If you were to remove the gaskets and bolt the pan to the block and then weld, I would think you would minimize any warping. Or perhaps clamp it to a flat plate?
I'm considering this in lieu of buying an LS1 pan. The only external difference appears to be the depth at the sump. Everything else LOOKS the same. I don't really know why the truck pan is deeper. According to my info, the truck holds one extra quart of oil. See attachement comparing the two oil pans.
Andy1
I'm considering this in lieu of buying an LS1 pan. The only external difference appears to be the depth at the sump. Everything else LOOKS the same. I don't really know why the truck pan is deeper. According to my info, the truck holds one extra quart of oil. See attachement comparing the two oil pans.
Andy1
Those ideas will prob work... though I don't know too much about welding, let alone welding aluminum. I was always under the impression you just have to let the material frequently cool as you welded. I was planning on cutting and fitting everything, and then taking the pan to someone who has experience w/ welding aluminum.
Isn't the sump on the Fbody pan actually longer front to back than the truck pan? We're also talking about removing a whole 3 inches of depth... that's a lot, isn't it? Do you think you'll be losing less than a quart of oil capacity?
Not saying it's a bad idea at all... I actually like your idea a lot. However the oil pan is a pretty critical part!
Isn't the sump on the Fbody pan actually longer front to back than the truck pan? We're also talking about removing a whole 3 inches of depth... that's a lot, isn't it? Do you think you'll be losing less than a quart of oil capacity?
Not saying it's a bad idea at all... I actually like your idea a lot. However the oil pan is a pretty critical part!
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Downers Grove, IL
Yes, the sump on the F-Body pan is longer front to back than the truck pan. Also the f-body pan is shallower in front of the sump than the truck pan. A truck windage tray will not fit in an f-body pan, at least until you get the cutoff wheel out 
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-swaps/394458-s10-ls1-headers-sanderson.html
Check this post for a good amount of pics and info on welded LSx pans
Check this post for a good amount of pics and info on welded LSx pans
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by G-Body
Yes, the sump on the F-Body pan is longer front to back than the truck pan. Also the f-body pan is shallower in front of the sump than the truck pan. A truck windage tray will not fit in an f-body pan, at least until you get the cutoff wheel out
Andy1
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Originally Posted by Bigdeezs
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394458
Check this post for a good amount of pics and info on welded LSx pans
Check this post for a good amount of pics and info on welded LSx pans
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From: Baltimore, MD.
If the LS1 pan / tray / pickup will work without modification, I'd use them.
If you've got to modify, then you will need to be concerned about a few things:
1.) Warpage. As discussed above, welding on the pan will try to distort it. Bolting it to a flat plate or old block will certainly help. Also, somebody who is skilled at doing that kind of thing will have some other tricks to help keep it flat. And if it ends up warped, you may be able to have a machine shop "deck" it to make it flat again.
2.) Weld porosity / inclusions. The aluminum casting tends to soak up some of the oil due to casting porosity. Which makes welding on a used pan difficult. Might be best to bake the pan at 400 or 500 degrees to burn off the oil and get the pan good and clean (I wouldn't do it in the oven in the kitchen, your brownies might never be the same). Do whatever you can to get clean material so that your welds have the best chance of holding oil.
3.) Capacity after you're finished. If you hack 3" out of the sump, how much oil capacity remains? Would be a good idea to figure it out before hacking and chopping, instead of after you loose a motor because of insufficient oil. Just a thought.
'JustDreamin'
If you've got to modify, then you will need to be concerned about a few things:
1.) Warpage. As discussed above, welding on the pan will try to distort it. Bolting it to a flat plate or old block will certainly help. Also, somebody who is skilled at doing that kind of thing will have some other tricks to help keep it flat. And if it ends up warped, you may be able to have a machine shop "deck" it to make it flat again.
2.) Weld porosity / inclusions. The aluminum casting tends to soak up some of the oil due to casting porosity. Which makes welding on a used pan difficult. Might be best to bake the pan at 400 or 500 degrees to burn off the oil and get the pan good and clean (I wouldn't do it in the oven in the kitchen, your brownies might never be the same). Do whatever you can to get clean material so that your welds have the best chance of holding oil.
3.) Capacity after you're finished. If you hack 3" out of the sump, how much oil capacity remains? Would be a good idea to figure it out before hacking and chopping, instead of after you loose a motor because of insufficient oil. Just a thought.
'JustDreamin'
No problem... I think I lost about a quart of oil pan capacity. I tried to make up for it somewhat though by running the stock blazer oil cooler/warmer. you can see in the pics that I attached some nipples to the pan. If you want to you can use the 6.0 truck oil cooler fitting but it was like a $100 or so and I decided to go cheap and do it my self. Though the quart I lost pretty much means its the same capacity as an f-body pan.
Derek
Derek
Last edited by Bigdeezs; Feb 15, 2006 at 03:46 PM.
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From: SoCal
What I'm basically looking to do, is to get to LS1 vertical dimensions. I will have both ground and hood clearance issues otherwise. If I can't shorten the pan with reasonable success, I can go with a LS1. I have done a fair amount of aluminum welding. Welding cast aluminum that had contained oil can be very difficult at times. I will need to swap to a LS1 intake as well. There are some posts that I've read about this conversion
Andy1
Andy1
my guy who welded mine hot-tanked it first to clean it, then baked it at 500 degrees to bring some of the crap out.. then he bolted it to a flat table, and preheated it before he welded it. No warping. He said the old oil came to the surface in some places, but that it still welded O.K. I've got no experience when it comes to welding aluminum, i'm just repeating what i heard..
good luck
olly
good luck
olly
When I think of oil capacity two things come to mind:
1) the total amout of oil in the system
2) the amount of oil in the pan available to the pickup at any given time.
In my opinion #2 is a bigger concern. Having more oil actually in the pan (rather than in an oil cooler) is important if you are doing a long WOT pull and your engine is consistently in the high RPMs. Your oil pump is pumping at capacity, and the oil doesn't have enough time to fall back through the engine fast enough to keep the oil pan full. Since all the oil hasn't fallen back down into the bottom of the pan yet, the pickup tube starts gulping air and your oil pressure falls. Your engine starts starving for oil and it's all bad news from there. Does anyone else worry about this when they start to modify their oil pan??
I guess it's even more critical for me because I am running a turbo setup.
1) the total amout of oil in the system
2) the amount of oil in the pan available to the pickup at any given time.
In my opinion #2 is a bigger concern. Having more oil actually in the pan (rather than in an oil cooler) is important if you are doing a long WOT pull and your engine is consistently in the high RPMs. Your oil pump is pumping at capacity, and the oil doesn't have enough time to fall back through the engine fast enough to keep the oil pan full. Since all the oil hasn't fallen back down into the bottom of the pan yet, the pickup tube starts gulping air and your oil pressure falls. Your engine starts starving for oil and it's all bad news from there. Does anyone else worry about this when they start to modify their oil pan??
I guess it's even more critical for me because I am running a turbo setup.
Originally Posted by Bigdeezs
No problem... I think I lost about a quart of oil pan capacity. I tried to make up for it somewhat though by running the stock blazer oil cooler/warmer. you can see in the pics that I attached some nipples to the pan. If you want to you can use the 6.0 truck oil cooler fitting but it was like a $100 or so and I decided to go cheap and do it my self. Though the quart I lost pretty much means its the same capacity as an f-body pan.
Derek
Derek
I made a post in the internal engine section a while back. I bought the S&P modified pan and lost about a quart of capacity and then I got to thinking about losing oil pressure. I got a couple of recommendations in the post that you may be interested in. I haven't tried anything yet though. Here's the post:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/410840-modified-oil-pan-need-advice.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/410840-modified-oil-pan-need-advice.html
I've done a few High speed WOT runs from a slow roll (10mph) up to about 140 maybe 150(on the bottle even) and have never had a problem with a drop in my oil pressure. I've driven my truck damn spiritedly in the Santa Monica mountains (some very windy roads) and have also never had oil pressure problems.
Ahh good deal... exactly how much did you take off the bottom of the pan? Did you have to modify the pickup tube?
Originally Posted by Bigdeezs
I've done a few High speed WOT runs from a slow roll (10mph) up to about 140 maybe 150(on the bottle even) and have never had a problem with a drop in my oil pressure. I've driven my truck damn spiritedly in the Santa Monica mountains (some very windy roads) and have also never had oil pressure problems.
I think I took off about 2 inches and yes I did have to shorten the pickup tube a bit.
On a side note: something I didnt realize was that gasket for the camaro pickup tube and the truck pickup tube were different. No oil pressure first time I started it with the truck pickup tube
. Put truck o-ring on and all is well.
Derek
On a side note: something I didnt realize was that gasket for the camaro pickup tube and the truck pickup tube were different. No oil pressure first time I started it with the truck pickup tube
. Put truck o-ring on and all is well.Derek
FWIW, the stock pan CAN be welded. Be very careful of warpage issues related to heating the cast pan up tho. Mounting to the bottom of a scrap block is a wise choice.
I had 2 separate pans welded up in an attempt to fit my Typhoon conversion, I wasnt quite happy with the results and ultimately ended up with this:
Shown above in the 'tacked' format, its getting final welded as I type this and hope to fit it to the engine with a pickup tube that fits as well.
This pan will be available from www.turbotime.us once all the dimensions are finalized.
The sheetmetal pan will require a remote style filter arrangement but thats fine, I wanted to run it anyhow to regain some lost capacity, and may consider running an oil cooler as well.
Also, fwiw, CANTON Race Products has an LS1 sheet metal oil pan that is probably very close to fitting but its $575+ Definitely a NICE PIECE but not cheap.
I had 2 separate pans welded up in an attempt to fit my Typhoon conversion, I wasnt quite happy with the results and ultimately ended up with this:
Shown above in the 'tacked' format, its getting final welded as I type this and hope to fit it to the engine with a pickup tube that fits as well.
This pan will be available from www.turbotime.us once all the dimensions are finalized.
The sheetmetal pan will require a remote style filter arrangement but thats fine, I wanted to run it anyhow to regain some lost capacity, and may consider running an oil cooler as well.
Also, fwiw, CANTON Race Products has an LS1 sheet metal oil pan that is probably very close to fitting but its $575+ Definitely a NICE PIECE but not cheap.