Ecotec + T56?
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what do you want to use the car for??? will it see any road use??? if you are going to use it on the road then use a car engine!!! ask any guys on the forum i posted about road going kit cars with bike engine and they will all tell you the same thing, great at the track crap on the road!!
you find that the buzing and the harsh shifts that make them soooo sentertaining on track make them annoying on the road.
i mist say the Ecotec hasn't been used much over here in kit cars. have you thought about the Zetec (really really good kit car engine are tons of uprated parts for them) or the new ford Duratec (the 2.3 is used in the Catheram and is amzing)??????
if you on a busdget go for either the Eco, zetec or the Duratec, stick a set of throttle bodies on (bike carbs or TBs work really good to!!), a set of cams and a sandalone ECu with the T5 box and you will ahve a VERY quick car!
thanks Chris.
you find that the buzing and the harsh shifts that make them soooo sentertaining on track make them annoying on the road.
i mist say the Ecotec hasn't been used much over here in kit cars. have you thought about the Zetec (really really good kit car engine are tons of uprated parts for them) or the new ford Duratec (the 2.3 is used in the Catheram and is amzing)??????
if you on a busdget go for either the Eco, zetec or the Duratec, stick a set of throttle bodies on (bike carbs or TBs work really good to!!), a set of cams and a sandalone ECu with the T5 box and you will ahve a VERY quick car!
thanks Chris.
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From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by 99c5vert
:yesnod:
IMO, unless you're after a national championship, build YOUR "Ultimate" car, and enjoy it.
The best way to enjoy autocrosses is to go to autocross schools (Brian Garfield puts on really good ones in Aberdeen). You pay about $160, but you get many runs (about 30-40).
Also, in case you get bored with autocross, build your car with the proper roll bar so you can at least attend track days... Summit Point has Fridays at the Track, where you can run without "racing"
IMO, unless you're after a national championship, build YOUR "Ultimate" car, and enjoy it.
The best way to enjoy autocrosses is to go to autocross schools (Brian Garfield puts on really good ones in Aberdeen). You pay about $160, but you get many runs (about 30-40).
Also, in case you get bored with autocross, build your car with the proper roll bar so you can at least attend track days... Summit Point has Fridays at the Track, where you can run without "racing"
You're right about the national championship part. Not interested in that (at least, NOT for YEARS, if ever).
I've still gotta decide what I want to get out of this thing. Like I said...I have no issues with building something now, to only tear it apart in a year or 2 and improve it. Or completely part it out/sell it, and start over again.
Last edited by sb427f-car; Nov 14, 2006 at 09:36 AM.
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Originally Posted by chuntington101
what do you want to use the car for??? will it see any road use??? if you are going to use it on the road then use a car engine!!! ask any guys on the forum i posted about road going kit cars with bike engine and they will all tell you the same thing, great at the track crap on the road!!
you find that the buzing and the harsh shifts that make them soooo sentertaining on track make them annoying on the road.
i mist say the Ecotec hasn't been used much over here in kit cars. have you thought about the Zetec (really really good kit car engine are tons of uprated parts for them) or the new ford Duratec (the 2.3 is used in the Catheram and is amzing)??????
if you on a busdget go for either the Eco, zetec or the Duratec, stick a set of throttle bodies on (bike carbs or TBs work really good to!!), a set of cams and a sandalone ECu with the T5 box and you will ahve a VERY quick car!
thanks Chris.
you find that the buzing and the harsh shifts that make them soooo sentertaining on track make them annoying on the road.
i mist say the Ecotec hasn't been used much over here in kit cars. have you thought about the Zetec (really really good kit car engine are tons of uprated parts for them) or the new ford Duratec (the 2.3 is used in the Catheram and is amzing)??????
if you on a busdget go for either the Eco, zetec or the Duratec, stick a set of throttle bodies on (bike carbs or TBs work really good to!!), a set of cams and a sandalone ECu with the T5 box and you will ahve a VERY quick car!
thanks Chris.
I honestly do NOT care about living with harsh shifts, and noise, seriously, I don't...that's half the reason I want to do something like this. This is a "driving" car, not a grandma cruiser.
I'm a gearhead chris...but quite fankly, if I have to get this car smogged (like it probably will have to be in the glorious people's republic of Maryland) I do not want to be learning how to tune 4 webers with metering rods, floats, and jets.
Yep, that's right...I'm of THAT generation where a computer can do a better job, easier. And to everyone that's had a say, THANKS. This is the kind of stuff I need. I know the locots forums do a good job of info but you're my adopted family. I know you (a lot of you) and I know your insights as well as the general wealth of info, useful and useless
, and your abilities to think outside the box on a project like this. From mild to wild, from cheap to break the bank, you've all been through it with a far greater (and this isn't a slam to the 7 guys) varriaty of vehicles and garage/backyard engineering. From street, to strip, to auto-x to road race, you can't get a better bank of knowledge, IMHO. Last edited by sb427f-car; Nov 14, 2006 at 09:41 AM.
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Originally Posted by sb427f-car
Yes, it would see street time, but it would NOT be anything other than a sunday back road cruise (basically ripper). It would not be driven to work, it would be driven to auto-x events.
I honestly do NOT care about living with harsh shifts, and noise, seriously, I don't...that's half the reason I want to do something like this. This is a "driving" car, not a grandma cruiser.
I'm a gearhead chris...but quite fankly, if I have to get this car smogged (like it probably will have to be in the glorious people's republic of Maryland) I do not want to be learning how to tune 4 webers with metering rods, floats, and jets. Yep, that's right...I'm of THAT generation where a computer can do a better job, easier.
And to everyone that's had a say, THANKS. This is the kind of stuff I need. I know the locots forums do a good job of info but you're my adopted family. I know you (a lot of you) and I know your insights as well as the general wealth of info, useful and useless, and your abilities to think outside the box on a project like this. From mild to wild, from cheap to break the bank, you've all been through it with a far greater (and this isn't a slam to the 7 guys) varriaty of vehicles and garage/backyard engineering. From street, to strip, to auto-x to road race, you can't get a better bank of knowledge, IMHO.
I honestly do NOT care about living with harsh shifts, and noise, seriously, I don't...that's half the reason I want to do something like this. This is a "driving" car, not a grandma cruiser.
I'm a gearhead chris...but quite fankly, if I have to get this car smogged (like it probably will have to be in the glorious people's republic of Maryland) I do not want to be learning how to tune 4 webers with metering rods, floats, and jets.
Yep, that's right...I'm of THAT generation where a computer can do a better job, easier. And to everyone that's had a say, THANKS. This is the kind of stuff I need. I know the locots forums do a good job of info but you're my adopted family. I know you (a lot of you) and I know your insights as well as the general wealth of info, useful and useless
, and your abilities to think outside the box on a project like this. From mild to wild, from cheap to break the bank, you've all been through it with a far greater (and this isn't a slam to the 7 guys) varriaty of vehicles and garage/backyard engineering. From street, to strip, to auto-x to road race, you can't get a better bank of knowledge, IMHO.
idavidual throttle boddies mate!! and they can be smog tested, they have to be over here. and even with a good cat you can make BIG power. also they are the only really way to get over 180bhp (with a 2.0ltr 4pot).
understand what you are saying about bike power, just guessed someone on a forum thats for 5ltr + engine you would want some torque
hehe only kiddingif you want to go for bike power you need to find a nice engine. the Hyabus is bay far the best choise for a bike powered kit car. they are very tunable andstill over some kind of torque. AND if you want to get mad later then you canget over 450bhp from a turbo!!
other good ones include R1's (the soon to be out one makes 187bph form 1.0ltr!!!!), the 1.0ltr CBRR engine is pretty good, as if the firebalde plants. the 1200cc suzuki plants can be good to as you can strech them out quiet a long way.
also worth concidering, modding bike engines cost more than road engines (well the ones listed lol).deffinatly worth condering if your on a budget!
thanks Chris.
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Originally Posted by chuntington101
hey, who said anyhting about carbs?????
idavidual throttle boddies mate!! and they can be smog tested, they have to be over here. and even with a good cat you can make BIG power. also they are the only really way to get over 180bhp (with a 2.0ltr 4pot).
understand what you are saying about bike power, just guessed someone on a forum thats for 5ltr + engine you would want some torque hehe only kidding
if you want to go for bike power you need to find a nice engine. the Hyabus is bay far the best choise for a bike powered kit car. they are very tunable andstill over some kind of torque. AND if you want to get mad later then you canget over 450bhp from a turbo!!
other good ones include R1's (the soon to be out one makes 187bph form 1.0ltr!!!!), the 1.0ltr CBRR engine is pretty good, as if the firebalde plants. the 1200cc suzuki plants can be good to as you can strech them out quiet a long way.
also worth concidering, modding bike engines cost more than road engines (well the ones listed lol).deffinatly worth condering if your on a budget!
thanks Chris.
idavidual throttle boddies mate!! and they can be smog tested, they have to be over here. and even with a good cat you can make BIG power. also they are the only really way to get over 180bhp (with a 2.0ltr 4pot).
understand what you are saying about bike power, just guessed someone on a forum thats for 5ltr + engine you would want some torque
hehe only kiddingif you want to go for bike power you need to find a nice engine. the Hyabus is bay far the best choise for a bike powered kit car. they are very tunable andstill over some kind of torque. AND if you want to get mad later then you canget over 450bhp from a turbo!!
other good ones include R1's (the soon to be out one makes 187bph form 1.0ltr!!!!), the 1.0ltr CBRR engine is pretty good, as if the firebalde plants. the 1200cc suzuki plants can be good to as you can strech them out quiet a long way.
also worth concidering, modding bike engines cost more than road engines (well the ones listed lol).deffinatly worth condering if your on a budget!
thanks Chris.
Yeah, that's another idea, but quite frankly, 4stack Throttle bodies also add up.
My books need to get here so I can start reading and planning with more insight.
Hum...maybe I should just think about doing this with a 2.0 ecotec and using the proper 5spd. I can always change this sucker if I get tired of it...or blow it up.
Now...as far as rear ends...personally in a vehicle like this, I'd really like to do IRS. It would get the unsprung weight down. Then again, if I ever wanted to shove a LSx into it...that could get ugly/expensive...
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IRS does get the unsprung weight down, but adds weight and complexity to the car.
Also, with bike engine, make sure you have a good strategy (something besides having a trunk monkey pushing you back) for reverse
Give some consideration to Torsen rears...
Also, with bike engine, make sure you have a good strategy (something besides having a trunk monkey pushing you back) for reverse
Give some consideration to Torsen rears...
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From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by 99c5vert
IRS does get the unsprung weight down, but adds weight and complexity to the car.
Also, with bike engine, make sure you have a good strategy (something besides having a trunk monkey pushing you back) for reverse
Give some consideration to Torsen rears...
Also, with bike engine, make sure you have a good strategy (something besides having a trunk monkey pushing you back) for reverse
Give some consideration to Torsen rears...
Some complexity to the rear fabrication is expected.
Torsen rears? have a link?
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I don't have a link... do a google for Torsen or Quaife or TruTrac... all the same thing.
Basically a completely gear driven limited slip rear... no clutch packs and no preload to worry about.
Supposedly the best setup for autox.
It has been used for years in the Audi Quatrro and mazda RX7. alot more cars use them now.
Basically a completely gear driven limited slip rear... no clutch packs and no preload to worry about.
Supposedly the best setup for autox.
It has been used for years in the Audi Quatrro and mazda RX7. alot more cars use them now.
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From: Hazard Co. Maryland
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Compl...QQcmdZViewItem
Damn...too bad I'm not in Cali...that's a cheap start...
Reading the D/E mod rules...looks like I'm better off if I wanna do this, building something to be able to run in E Mod. Being a bigger guy, the weight breaks would work to my advantage, as well as being able to run more displacement.
I've come to the realization I do want to run this car in a class that I can A) have fun in (the number one thing) and B) have a chance at taking home hardware from a local series or if I'm lucky a local SCCA event (not likely in the first year or so, but a goal).
More than anything, I just want to have fun in a cheap form.
So...I've ruled out any of the Ford motors under 2.0L. I don't want to mess with the neon **** (turbo).
So...this leaves me with four thoughts...GM Ecotec (as originally discussed), A GM 4.3 out of an S-10, a 3.8 naturally aspirated (since the SCCA has a multiplier of 1.4x cubic inches for forced induction). Or...possibly a 5.0L truck motor.
HELP! 
Damn...too bad I'm not in Cali...that's a cheap start...
Reading the D/E mod rules...looks like I'm better off if I wanna do this, building something to be able to run in E Mod. Being a bigger guy, the weight breaks would work to my advantage, as well as being able to run more displacement.
I've come to the realization I do want to run this car in a class that I can A) have fun in (the number one thing) and B) have a chance at taking home hardware from a local series or if I'm lucky a local SCCA event (not likely in the first year or so, but a goal).
More than anything, I just want to have fun in a cheap form.
So...I've ruled out any of the Ford motors under 2.0L. I don't want to mess with the neon **** (turbo).
So...this leaves me with four thoughts...GM Ecotec (as originally discussed), A GM 4.3 out of an S-10, a 3.8 naturally aspirated (since the SCCA has a multiplier of 1.4x cubic inches for forced induction). Or...possibly a 5.0L truck motor.
HELP!
Last edited by sb427f-car; Nov 14, 2006 at 05:46 PM.
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Originally Posted by Monza355
Go with a LS1 instead, unless there is a penalty for greatness. 
Bill
Bill
though weight is probably a good thing. TECH Addict
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what weight are you aiming for???? if you have never driven this type of car (ie well under a ton) then you dont want to go to far over 400bhp /ton or it will be very scarry! lol
i thought about doing a 7 style car with a ls1 in! couls be very quick with a 200shot of N2o! hehe
what aobut dropping a Vette rear end in there?
Chris.
i thought about doing a 7 style car with a ls1 in!
couls be very quick with a 200shot of N2o! hehewhat aobut dropping a Vette rear end in there?
Chris.
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Originally Posted by chuntington101
what weight are you aiming for???? if you have never driven this type of car (ie well under a ton) then you dont want to go to far over 400bhp /ton or it will be very scarry! lol
i thought about doing a 7 style car with a ls1 in! couls be very quick with a 200shot of N2o! hehe
what aobut dropping a Vette rear end in there?
Chris.
i thought about doing a 7 style car with a ls1 in!
couls be very quick with a 200shot of N2o! hehewhat aobut dropping a Vette rear end in there?
Chris.
Fun, yes, provided you have a lot of room to catch the sucker as it tries to snap your neck and whip you 360, 720, 1080,... Besides...that'd be like driving a sprint car on the road (fun, but a handful).Looking @ some of the rules...looks like somewhere in E-Mod since they weigh the car with the driver. 1700# weight brakes are for OHC Engines to 3200 cc, pushrod/OHV to 4500cc. Since I'm overweight (and need to loose some weight and get back to the gym :jest) I think shooting for a higher weight brake bennifits me, as long as I have the power to move it. I'm not concerned giving up power to learn how to drive for a year or two (that would actually help budget wise anyways, and learn about suspension setups).
As for your Vette rear end...ugly. The fabrication to get the transverse leaf spring in there...ewww, I don't even wanna think about that. The caddy independent rearends have crossed my mind though, and I know about their wheelhop and strength issues, but you have to figure they're moving beheamouths compared to a 7. I think if I go solid axle, I would look at making it a 3 link instead of the 4 link, just for added easy of adjustability.
Lastly...you're across the pond in GB right?
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couple of thoughts... vette rears can be easily done with coilovers
and, a seven, even with alot of power is pretty stable. i've gone stupid in a couple of autocrosses and spun the car, but generally the car is very predictable. Possibly because you set right near the rear wheel, and can easily feel it step out...
I find that it doesn't "snap" nearly as easily as my C5
and, a seven, even with alot of power is pretty stable. i've gone stupid in a couple of autocrosses and spun the car, but generally the car is very predictable. Possibly because you set right near the rear wheel, and can easily feel it step out...
I find that it doesn't "snap" nearly as easily as my C5
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Originally Posted by 67RSCamaroVette
i think it would have a hard time turning anything more than 4:10 gears. alot of rotating mass for a lightweight high revving motor.
The T56 is probably bigger than the whole Ecotec engine
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Originally Posted by TransAminal
Agreed. Thats a huge trans for a 4 cylinder, you'd want something lighter and more compact for such a small engine.
The T56 is probably bigger than the whole Ecotec engine
The T56 is probably bigger than the whole Ecotec engine
CONCLUSIONS ON EARLY RESEARCH:
I have a class target to run in...E-Mod. So...that means I can snag a 2.2 VVT Ecotec or a 2.4 or even a 2.0 with a supercharger, still shoot for a 1700# weight with driver.
I've ruled out the Ecotec with a T-56.
I want to leave room in the chassis for a step to an LS1 and a T-56 if I ever felt like it.
99c5vert...is it Tom? I'm sure they are a much more predictible car than a vette. BTW, if you don't clip a cone, or turn the *** end around on at least one run, you aren't driving hard enough. And loose is fast from what I've seen in an autocross competition, as long as it's a "hair" loose.
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...%20&pr=goog-sl
That was a VERY frustrating day... in one day I managed to snap my panhard rod, and have a failed fuel pump.
The spin was mostly out of frustration for messing up the last couple of turns before where I spun. I got lost on the course a little.
That was a VERY frustrating day... in one day I managed to snap my panhard rod, and have a failed fuel pump.
The spin was mostly out of frustration for messing up the last couple of turns before where I spun. I got lost on the course a little.