EPP Ferrari 308 LS2 project car!
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#8
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Interesting swap....
Guy I used to know had a 308, which he'd drive to work on occasion. Some of the engineering on that car was downright stupid. Like the oil filter placement. It was on the top of the motor, mounted at about a 45 degree angle, with the seal side down. And it sat right next to the intake. Always looked like it'd take 2 minutes to change the oil filter and 2 hours to clean up the mess!
And that thing had to have the 2nd worst exhaust note I have ever heard! A pair of 4 cylinder diesel gensets running slightly out of synch actually sounded better (I did a comparison with a truck at the shop, everybody surveyed said the Ferrari sounded worse). My personal opinion is the only thing that sounds worse is a Wankel at 15,000 rpm with straight pipes (sounds like a gigantic bumble bee).
I'm sure your exhaust note will be better, and the car should be a lot more fun....
I would think real hard about what trans / transaxle to put in there.....
The late model v8 front drive stuff might put up with the 5.3 v8 in stock trim, but I would be concerned about how much more it can take. Granted, that does assume that you've got enough traction to actually put all the power to the ground. A supercharger probably puts the front drive transaxle into "grenade" territory with any traction.
Some interesting tidbits from GMPowerTrain's Website:
4T65 & 6T70 are rated at a max of 280 ft-lbs engine torque
4T80 is rated at a max of 305 ft-lbs engine torque
For comparison, the 4L60E / 65E / 70E are rated at 295 / 360 / 400 ft-lbs, and they're not all that hard to break. At least they have some aftermarket support, I have no idea about the "T"s.
Certainly not saying that it won't work or can't be made functional. Just suggesting you think through what you choose.....I'd hate to be pulling the trans out every other month for a rebuild. Besides, it would be alot more fun to drive that car with a stick. Not sure there are all that many choices there either.
Please continue to post up, I look forward to seeing a real V8 go in!
'JustDreamin'
Guy I used to know had a 308, which he'd drive to work on occasion. Some of the engineering on that car was downright stupid. Like the oil filter placement. It was on the top of the motor, mounted at about a 45 degree angle, with the seal side down. And it sat right next to the intake. Always looked like it'd take 2 minutes to change the oil filter and 2 hours to clean up the mess!
And that thing had to have the 2nd worst exhaust note I have ever heard! A pair of 4 cylinder diesel gensets running slightly out of synch actually sounded better (I did a comparison with a truck at the shop, everybody surveyed said the Ferrari sounded worse). My personal opinion is the only thing that sounds worse is a Wankel at 15,000 rpm with straight pipes (sounds like a gigantic bumble bee).
I'm sure your exhaust note will be better, and the car should be a lot more fun....
I would think real hard about what trans / transaxle to put in there.....
The late model v8 front drive stuff might put up with the 5.3 v8 in stock trim, but I would be concerned about how much more it can take. Granted, that does assume that you've got enough traction to actually put all the power to the ground. A supercharger probably puts the front drive transaxle into "grenade" territory with any traction.
Some interesting tidbits from GMPowerTrain's Website:
4T65 & 6T70 are rated at a max of 280 ft-lbs engine torque
4T80 is rated at a max of 305 ft-lbs engine torque
For comparison, the 4L60E / 65E / 70E are rated at 295 / 360 / 400 ft-lbs, and they're not all that hard to break. At least they have some aftermarket support, I have no idea about the "T"s.
Certainly not saying that it won't work or can't be made functional. Just suggesting you think through what you choose.....I'd hate to be pulling the trans out every other month for a rebuild. Besides, it would be alot more fun to drive that car with a stick. Not sure there are all that many choices there either.
Please continue to post up, I look forward to seeing a real V8 go in!
'JustDreamin'
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I heard a gun shot, somewhere a ferrari purist just shot himself.
I did look at my pistol a few times, but no good thing about the 308s power plant, well the power band from driving and riding in one was amazingly linar, and it pulled in the top end like it was from a dig, not hard but just pulled.
I really like this idea, although being a bit an ferrari *****, I'd rather see a F430 swap in her. It'll kick *** and confuse everyone when it grumbles by. Great work I can't wait to see more.
I did look at my pistol a few times, but no good thing about the 308s power plant, well the power band from driving and riding in one was amazingly linar, and it pulled in the top end like it was from a dig, not hard but just pulled.
I really like this idea, although being a bit an ferrari *****, I'd rather see a F430 swap in her. It'll kick *** and confuse everyone when it grumbles by. Great work I can't wait to see more.
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I saw numbers from GMPP that said the 4L60E was 370 and the 4L65E was 400. My 96 impala ss was 330 from the engine for torque so I think the numbers listed earlier are on the low side.
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That should be a cool project. You should research Mendeola transaxles. They are coming out with a street version that should handle some serious power.
http://www.mendeolaracing.com/
There are many twin turbo LSx sandrail guys running these behind them making 1000hp+ that can pop wheelies in most gears. They can take some serious abuse..... but do cost a fair penny.
http://www.mendeolaracing.com/
There are many twin turbo LSx sandrail guys running these behind them making 1000hp+ that can pop wheelies in most gears. They can take some serious abuse..... but do cost a fair penny.
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Originally Posted by JustDreamin
Interesting swap....
Guy I used to know had a 308, which he'd drive to work on occasion. Some of the engineering on that car was downright stupid. Like the oil filter placement. It was on the top of the motor, mounted at about a 45 degree angle, with the seal side down. And it sat right next to the intake. Always looked like it'd take 2 minutes to change the oil filter and 2 hours to clean up the mess!
And that thing had to have the 2nd worst exhaust note I have ever heard! A pair of 4 cylinder diesel gensets running slightly out of synch actually sounded better (I did a comparison with a truck at the shop, everybody surveyed said the Ferrari sounded worse). My personal opinion is the only thing that sounds worse is a Wankel at 15,000 rpm with straight pipes (sounds like a gigantic bumble bee).
I'm sure your exhaust note will be better, and the car should be a lot more fun....
I would think real hard about what trans / transaxle to put in there.....
The late model v8 front drive stuff might put up with the 5.3 v8 in stock trim, but I would be concerned about how much more it can take. Granted, that does assume that you've got enough traction to actually put all the power to the ground. A supercharger probably puts the front drive transaxle into "grenade" territory with any traction.
Some interesting tidbits from GMPowerTrain's Website:
4T65 & 6T70 are rated at a max of 280 ft-lbs engine torque
4T80 is rated at a max of 305 ft-lbs engine torque
For comparison, the 4L60E / 65E / 70E are rated at 295 / 360 / 400 ft-lbs, and they're not all that hard to break. At least they have some aftermarket support, I have no idea about the "T"s.
Certainly not saying that it won't work or can't be made functional. Just suggesting you think through what you choose.....I'd hate to be pulling the trans out every other month for a rebuild. Besides, it would be alot more fun to drive that car with a stick. Not sure there are all that many choices there either.
Please continue to post up, I look forward to seeing a real V8 go in!
'JustDreamin'
Guy I used to know had a 308, which he'd drive to work on occasion. Some of the engineering on that car was downright stupid. Like the oil filter placement. It was on the top of the motor, mounted at about a 45 degree angle, with the seal side down. And it sat right next to the intake. Always looked like it'd take 2 minutes to change the oil filter and 2 hours to clean up the mess!
And that thing had to have the 2nd worst exhaust note I have ever heard! A pair of 4 cylinder diesel gensets running slightly out of synch actually sounded better (I did a comparison with a truck at the shop, everybody surveyed said the Ferrari sounded worse). My personal opinion is the only thing that sounds worse is a Wankel at 15,000 rpm with straight pipes (sounds like a gigantic bumble bee).
I'm sure your exhaust note will be better, and the car should be a lot more fun....
I would think real hard about what trans / transaxle to put in there.....
The late model v8 front drive stuff might put up with the 5.3 v8 in stock trim, but I would be concerned about how much more it can take. Granted, that does assume that you've got enough traction to actually put all the power to the ground. A supercharger probably puts the front drive transaxle into "grenade" territory with any traction.
Some interesting tidbits from GMPowerTrain's Website:
4T65 & 6T70 are rated at a max of 280 ft-lbs engine torque
4T80 is rated at a max of 305 ft-lbs engine torque
For comparison, the 4L60E / 65E / 70E are rated at 295 / 360 / 400 ft-lbs, and they're not all that hard to break. At least they have some aftermarket support, I have no idea about the "T"s.
Certainly not saying that it won't work or can't be made functional. Just suggesting you think through what you choose.....I'd hate to be pulling the trans out every other month for a rebuild. Besides, it would be alot more fun to drive that car with a stick. Not sure there are all that many choices there either.
Please continue to post up, I look forward to seeing a real V8 go in!
'JustDreamin'
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Originally Posted by gnx7
That should be a cool project. You should research Mendeola transaxles. They are coming out with a street version that should handle some serious power.
http://www.mendeolaracing.com/
There are many twin turbo LSx sandrail guys running these behind them making 1000hp+ that can pop wheelies in most gears. They can take some serious abuse..... but do cost a fair penny.
http://www.mendeolaracing.com/
There are many twin turbo LSx sandrail guys running these behind them making 1000hp+ that can pop wheelies in most gears. They can take some serious abuse..... but do cost a fair penny.
Thanks, I'll check them out.
Thanks everyone for your comments, I appreciate it! Bob
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Originally Posted by 76LQ9TA
I saw numbers from GMPP that said the 4L60E was 370 and the 4L65E was 400. My 96 impala ss was 330 from the engine for torque so I think the numbers listed earlier are on the low side.
What I can't say is how GMPT came up with those ratings. Only they know.
Originally Posted by NOBR8KSS
The 4L60E is rated at 295 ft-lbs...why does it come from GM in the Z-28?
Also, why does it come with the 7.625" 10-bolt rear axle? Heck even the 4.3L V6 5sp applications in the S10 got the 8.5" 10-bolt rear axle (starting in '96 or so) which is a bunch stronger. I know I've broken the 7.625" 10-bolt in my '93 Z without trying too hard (with a mostly stock LT1 motor to boot).
The 4L60E isn't a bulletproof piece (seems to me to be more like a POS). The one in my 99 Bravada blew up the rear planetary behind the stock 195hp 4.3L V6 at part throttle. I will admit that it had 104k on it. But hard part failure on an otherwise fully serviceable trans shouldn't happen.
GM does some stupid things sometimes, much to the enthusiast's dismay.
Originally Posted by gnx7
That should be a cool project. You should research Mendeola transaxles. They are coming out with a street version that should handle some serious power.
http://www.mendeolaracing.com/
There are many twin turbo LSx sandrail guys running these behind them making 1000hp+ that can pop wheelies in most gears. They can take some serious abuse..... but do cost a fair penny.
http://www.mendeolaracing.com/
There are many twin turbo LSx sandrail guys running these behind them making 1000hp+ that can pop wheelies in most gears. They can take some serious abuse..... but do cost a fair penny.
'JustDreamin'
Last edited by 'JustDreamin'; 01-18-2007 at 02:19 PM.
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the base weight of the car was 3070 on the scales before we pulled it we will have to weigh the engine/trans seperate and see what we are working with!
Us guys at the shop want to make it a drag radial gaurdrail glider... but I think Bob wants to do some standing mile stuff....what do you guys think?
Us guys at the shop want to make it a drag radial gaurdrail glider... but I think Bob wants to do some standing mile stuff....what do you guys think?