My 240sx / S14 LS1 Swap - Progress *56k beware*
12-14-2007, 10:51 AM
#241
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bitchin to see you out on the track!
What front sway bar were you running that day?
I have a theory that a huge front sway bar on a 240sx should help a grip set-up tramendously by limiting the range of travel in the front, thereby keeping the mac-strut front suspension within it's very limited range of acceptable camber curves. Plus in a car with torque oversteer on demand you can easily compensate for the understeer (that a huge front sway bar will cause) on demand.
If you are interested in making your own sway bars, do not try and temper it yourself as was previously suggested. Bend up a couple hollow chomoly bars of different diameters, and take them to some place that has the ovens and expertise to do it right, it won't be expensive.
What front sway bar were you running that day?
I have a theory that a huge front sway bar on a 240sx should help a grip set-up tramendously by limiting the range of travel in the front, thereby keeping the mac-strut front suspension within it's very limited range of acceptable camber curves. Plus in a car with torque oversteer on demand you can easily compensate for the understeer (that a huge front sway bar will cause) on demand.
If you are interested in making your own sway bars, do not try and temper it yourself as was previously suggested. Bend up a couple hollow chomoly bars of different diameters, and take them to some place that has the ovens and expertise to do it right, it won't be expensive.
I need to get a custom one made, but it's been tough finding a place that'll do it. Turn in was very sharp, through the entry, mid, and exit, but to a point where the back of the car felt like it wanted to kick out. I do have a front sway bar which would definitely help. Your theory is sounds reasonable, although I wish i was an expert on the matter. I'll have to keep looking for a place that'll do the sway bar install for me. Which reminds me, I'm going to call a few shops and see what they can do. I'll update this thread if I find anything.
12-14-2007, 09:05 PM
#242
Are you still running 9 kg/mm springs in the rear?
Those things won't allow much squat to soak up any weight transfer it could be greatly contributing to your oversteer problem. There's a guy on here from CT who runs his S14 a lot in SCCA stuff and he's on 11f/8r. Might want to try his set up, and just swap out those rear springs. It'd be cheaper than anything else!
Those things won't allow much squat to soak up any weight transfer it could be greatly contributing to your oversteer problem. There's a guy on here from CT who runs his S14 a lot in SCCA stuff and he's on 11f/8r. Might want to try his set up, and just swap out those rear springs. It'd be cheaper than anything else!
12-14-2007, 10:46 PM
#243
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you still running 9 kg/mm springs in the rear?
Those things won't allow much squat to soak up any weight transfer it could be greatly contributing to your oversteer problem. There's a guy on here from CT who runs his S14 a lot in SCCA stuff and he's on 11f/8r. Might want to try his set up, and just swap out those rear springs. It'd be cheaper than anything else!
Those things won't allow much squat to soak up any weight transfer it could be greatly contributing to your oversteer problem. There's a guy on here from CT who runs his S14 a lot in SCCA stuff and he's on 11f/8r. Might want to try his set up, and just swap out those rear springs. It'd be cheaper than anything else!
12-14-2007, 11:51 PM
#244
Teching In
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my s14 is
Spring Rates:
335 IB/IN Front
200 IB/IN REAR
Vehicle Weight: 2950 IB wet w/ extra stuff inside Vehicle Weight
Weight distribution: Unknown
Worked well at pacific raceways on lapping days. I let the dampeners do a bit more work up front at 6/15 and rears are 3/15. The track is a bit rough and the car was bouncing coming out of turn 9 so I turned the rear to 3/15 and that worked well. Car squats a bit but its very predictable and didn't break traction (removed rear sway bar) It worked real well! This car is daily driven so no need for crazy spring rates. I think the Japanese think our roads are smooth or something.
-Ronald
Spring Rates:
335 IB/IN Front
200 IB/IN REAR
Vehicle Weight: 2950 IB wet w/ extra stuff inside Vehicle Weight
Weight distribution: Unknown
Worked well at pacific raceways on lapping days. I let the dampeners do a bit more work up front at 6/15 and rears are 3/15. The track is a bit rough and the car was bouncing coming out of turn 9 so I turned the rear to 3/15 and that worked well. Car squats a bit but its very predictable and didn't break traction (removed rear sway bar) It worked real well! This car is daily driven so no need for crazy spring rates. I think the Japanese think our roads are smooth or something.
-Ronald
12-17-2007, 09:40 PM
#245
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey thanks for the info. I dropped my rear end bout 1/4" and get it a tad more camber and toe and it seems to respond well upon corner exit. I'm still running crappo tires but the results shine through. I just need better tires now.
12-17-2007, 09:46 PM
#246
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update: Differential Ratio from 4.08 -> 3.69.
I did some research and found out that the q45 97-01 has a viscous type LSD and a 3.69 ratio. The differential housings are swappable with an exception. The output shafts will not work for the s14 due to the bolt pattern. BUT, you can take out your differential and throw it inside a q45 casing, also using the gears, so you can retain your existing differential and axles. I went this route because I have a torsen type s15 lsd and the output shafts are specific to the s15 and are not swappable to earlier year 240s. Here's some really easy steps to do it.
1. Remove differential from existing and q45 casing - put q45 ring gear onto previous differential (don't forget to use loctite)
2. Drop previous differential to q45 casing using output shafts from previous casing.
3. Swap output driveshaft flange from old casing to the q45 differential.
4. Check backlash pattern
5. Bolt up and go!
Some driving impressions:
The new ratio makes the car less "darty" or jumpy when a little gas is given. Reason being the RPMs don't rise quiet as fast using the 4.08. This results in a much more usable and controllable power band. It did drop my mph bout 6-7 or so. I cruise around town around 4th or 5th gear now rather than 6th gear. I'd also recommend this for road racing usage since the gearing is much more distinct rather than having the gears overlap rpm/power wise.
A very simple swap to do, and another valuable option to have per specific application.
I did some research and found out that the q45 97-01 has a viscous type LSD and a 3.69 ratio. The differential housings are swappable with an exception. The output shafts will not work for the s14 due to the bolt pattern. BUT, you can take out your differential and throw it inside a q45 casing, also using the gears, so you can retain your existing differential and axles. I went this route because I have a torsen type s15 lsd and the output shafts are specific to the s15 and are not swappable to earlier year 240s. Here's some really easy steps to do it.
1. Remove differential from existing and q45 casing - put q45 ring gear onto previous differential (don't forget to use loctite)
2. Drop previous differential to q45 casing using output shafts from previous casing.
3. Swap output driveshaft flange from old casing to the q45 differential.
4. Check backlash pattern
5. Bolt up and go!
Some driving impressions:
The new ratio makes the car less "darty" or jumpy when a little gas is given. Reason being the RPMs don't rise quiet as fast using the 4.08. This results in a much more usable and controllable power band. It did drop my mph bout 6-7 or so. I cruise around town around 4th or 5th gear now rather than 6th gear. I'd also recommend this for road racing usage since the gearing is much more distinct rather than having the gears overlap rpm/power wise.
A very simple swap to do, and another valuable option to have per specific application.
12-18-2007, 09:24 AM
#248
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to take 0-60 or 1320 times before. First gear is definitely usable. Shifts 1 to 2, rather than 1-3 which I used to do, provides a smoother transition. Acceleration is slightly deminished, but practical.
12-19-2007, 03:53 PM
#252
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i was thinking about putting a cam in for a bit more top end pull. Any profiles you guys recommend? I was thinking about going the z06 cam route with upgrade springs and retainers. Keeping in mind I want to keep this car a daily driver with maximum possible reliability.
12-19-2007, 07:01 PM
#253
If you want to stay street leagal and pass the sniffer test Texas Racings TR224/224 on a 114 (some claim to have passed with an LSA of 112) seems to be about as big as you can go. Popular cam design also seems to say, that anything with less than -6 degrees of overlap should be ok. Keep that in mind if you want to go with something with more of a traditional split to help the exhaust ports. If you have a good tuner (I'm still not convinced you do) you might be able to get away with something like a 222/226 on a 112.
12-20-2007, 03:39 AM
#254
Teching In
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm pretty sure he isn't trying to stay emissions legal since he is in california and its a 240sx with an ls1 swap, but correct me if I'm wrong on that mmdb.. I've followed your swap since the begining, and all I can say is amazing....
12-20-2007, 09:47 AM
#255
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want to stay street leagal and pass the sniffer test Texas Racings TR224/224 on a 114 (some claim to have passed with an LSA of 112) seems to be about as big as you can go. Popular cam design also seems to say, that anything with less than -6 degrees of overlap should be ok. Keep that in mind if you want to go with something with more of a traditional split to help the exhaust ports. If you have a good tuner (I'm still not convinced you do) you might be able to get away with something like a 222/226 on a 112.
12-20-2007, 09:48 AM
#256
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the complement. It's been a journey, but I'm learning a lot of things and meeting a lot of people because of it. Definitely worth it!
12-27-2007, 12:10 AM
#257
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got my car corner weighted and aligned at West End Alignment in Glendale. I think they did a good job conveying what they were doing, how they were doing it, and keeping me in the loop as they were doing it (I had to sit in the car for the whole duration due to corner balancing and alignment). Overall my car is more predictable during rear traction break and overall it's more controllable rather than a quick snap of oversteer. The tuner (I forgot his name) mentioned he was surprised I didn't get an insane amount of understeer due to the weight bias (below). Fortunately, during corner entry, mid, and exit are very crisp and sharp. Oversteer correction is VERY easy to do with this type of motor and the torque it produces. I noticed this in an autocross event I attend which consisted of tight turns.
Anyway, here's the results of the balancing...
Front driver: 878
Rear driver: 697
Front Passenger: 863
Rear Passenger : 682
55.8% weight in front
44.2% weight in rear
Cross weights within .5% (within ideal, max being 1%)
Total weight including myself in the car with 1/4 tank of gas, no spare tire, and everything else intact (passenger seats etc):
3120
Without me in the car:
2970
A little bit heavier than I anticipated (was thinking 2900 most), but that's with everything in the car minus the spare tire. Also, the battery is located in back of the car as well.
Anyway, here's the results of the balancing...
Front driver: 878
Rear driver: 697
Front Passenger: 863
Rear Passenger : 682
55.8% weight in front
44.2% weight in rear
Cross weights within .5% (within ideal, max being 1%)
Total weight including myself in the car with 1/4 tank of gas, no spare tire, and everything else intact (passenger seats etc):
3120
Without me in the car:
2970
A little bit heavier than I anticipated (was thinking 2900 most), but that's with everything in the car minus the spare tire. Also, the battery is located in back of the car as well.
01-11-2008, 09:04 PM
#259
On The Tree
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got my car corner weighted and aligned at West End Alignment in Glendale. I think they did a good job conveying what they were doing, how they were doing it, and keeping me in the loop as they were doing it (I had to sit in the car for the whole duration due to corner balancing and alignment). Overall my car is more predictable during rear traction break and overall it's more controllable rather than a quick snap of oversteer. The tuner (I forgot his name) mentioned he was surprised I didn't get an insane amount of understeer due to the weight bias (below). Fortunately, during corner entry, mid, and exit are very crisp and sharp. Oversteer correction is VERY easy to do with this type of motor and the torque it produces. I noticed this in an autocross event I attend which consisted of tight turns.
01-11-2008, 09:49 PM
#260
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll remember to take pictures soon. I just keep forgetting hehe. But I'm using an optima yellow top and a tie down kit from summit racing with 2 gauge wire to supply power to the front of the car. Hope that helps!
I believe the s14 responds very well to the swap because the engine sits slightly lower than the KA24de, and the weight from the transmission is behind the front x-member and in the middle of the car.
I believe the s14 responds very well to the swap because the engine sits slightly lower than the KA24de, and the weight from the transmission is behind the front x-member and in the middle of the car.